Submarines

[BareJag]

Just another stupid idea by me



More submarinemodells



There's a weakness in this game having just one type of submarine. In the reality there's three major types of submarines in use.


The disel-electric attack-submarine.
The traditional type. It need to surface from time to time for loading the batteries. It's usualy armed whit basic torpedoes and some SAMs (Surface to Air Missile) as self deffence against aircrafts. It's (rellativley) sheap, and doesen't need nuclear knowledge to be built. These are used against whatewer it finds. merchant shipps, troopcarriers, warshipps, other subs and so on.

The nuclear powered attack submarine
The first one, Nautilus, was launched 1954. It's propulsed by a nuclear reactor, so it doesen't need to surface. Therfore it's able to stay under the water for month's if needed. It's armed whit basic torpedoes, nuclear tactical torpedoes, SAMs, SSMs (Surface to Surface Missiles), used against larger ships on greater distance, and cruise missiles, used against land targets. This is a expensive submarine. But the nuclear reactor gives it high speed, the possibillity to opperate far away from home, and exelent possibillities to hide in the depth as long as needed, far away from the hunting aircrafts. The ractor allso allow it to opperate unther the polar ice. This one's ideal for hunting other subs, to track and sink the strategical submarines, and for sinking major warships such as hangarshipps and battleshipps

The strategic submarine
This one's nuclear powered. This gives it the same capabillities as the nuclear powered attack submarine. It's primary weapon is the nuclear ballistic missiles, whit a range of up to 13.000 km. It allso have torpedoes, both basic and nuclear ones, and SAMs. But these are only used as self-deffence. It's task is to hide, both durring peace an war, and when needed, launch the missiles against enemy cities and production centras. These are extremly expensive, and the owners are hiding them werry well.



I'd be gladd to see all of these in the game some time, but as I said, it's just an idea.

 

[Cruel]

In game have 2 types... "normal" and nuclear... . More types are welcome!

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

In game have 2 types... "normal" and nuclear... . More types are welcome!

Three in TR. Early WWI-type too.

 

[BareJag]

Don't count them if they not are used in the same time as diffrent boats. A modell following (and obsolete another) won' t be counted as two, but one type. In this case, the three modells are only two, as one is made obsolette by another.
But making more modells allso in that way's allso good. Especially in this case, because there's a huge diffrence between ww2 and modern disel-electric submarines regarding to the arnament, speed, silence and tactics.

Between ww1 and ww2 there wasn't that big diffrencce, so maby the ww1 model would be named ww2 instead?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Don't count them if they not are used in the same time as diffrent boats. A modell following (and obsolete another) won' t be counted as two, but one type. In this case, the three modells are only two, as one is made obsolette by another.
But making more modells allso in that way's allso good. Especially in this case, because there's a huge diffrence between ww2 and modern disel-electric submarines regarding to the arnament, speed, silence and tactics.

Between ww1 and ww2 there wasn't that big diffrencce, so maby the ww1 model would be named ww2 instead?

It's called "Coastal Submarine" without any reference to WW.

 

[BareJag]

OK!
As you see, I don't now mutch about this at the moment

 

[BareJag]

Here's an idea presented on another site for the "normal" civ4
There should be at least these;

Disel-electric ww1-ww2 sub (early costal submarine) weak and easy to see whit modern ships (sonar, these boats where werry loudly). Sheap but verry short-ranged (3). Small costal attack-bonus making them ecual to the more expensive modern "early submarine" submarine" on the coast..

Disel-electric ww2 (early submarine) More expensive, longer range (4), stronger, but still rellativley easy to detect whit sonar. Small surface-cappabillity using the for the time commonly used deck-cannon. Short ranged (4).

Disel-electric modern (conventional costal submarine) of the "Walter" and later by the same influencec "Albacore hull design" design until today. Short range, sheap, good hiders, small costal attack-bonus making them ecual to the more expensive modern "conventional submarine" on the coast. Mutch stronger than the "early submarine", allso on the ocean. Range 3 or 4

Disel-electric modern (conventional submarine). Similar to "conventional costal submarine", but marginaly stronger on the ocean, longer range, more expensive, and still a good hider. Range 5

(Nuclear powered attacksubmarines) Huge building cost and maintenance, maby twice the price of a "conventional submarine". Good hiders, in the reality disel-elecric are more silent than nuclear ones when running on the electric engine. Marginaly stronger, especialy in oceans (no costal bonus). But these are still using the same torpedoes as noventional subs, they just have some more strikes. Good range, maby 8, or at least as mutch as the best surface-ships. This is their real strength. These are in the reality capable of making more than 30 knots for long times.

Nuclear powered (Ballistic submarines). Their price are extraordinary high. Serveal times more than any other subs. These are the only seabased units who can carry ballistic longranged nuclear missiles. They are weak attackers by themselves, and thy're spending all their free time hiding.

The tecnology needed for the nuclear powered submarines woud not be required by any other tecnology, giving weaker a chance to spend the research on more vital things. It sould allso be verry expensive, so it would be a big sacrifice to get these.

 

[frekk]

Modern diesel electric subs should realistically have better attack capabilities in the conventional (anti-ship) role than nuclear subs. They are far more silent, which renders them much more effective in a conventional role. The modern nuclear sub's chief advantages are that they can be deployed very far from port, can remain undetected in enemy waters for long periods of time, and they are platforms for strategic weapons like SLBMs. Their ability to launch retaliatory nuclear strikes under any situation (including complete obliteration of their nation) renders them the single most powerful military asset in the world today. But they are not as useful as diesel-electrics in a purely anti-shipping role.

 

[Kilroywashere]

When you said strategic submarines are nuclear powered, this is only really true for the US. The Soviet Golf-class and Golf2-class submarine, the main soviet strategic nuclear missile submarine, was diesel-electric. these submarines carried three tactical nuclear missiles in their rear-extended conning tower and were the main submarines used by Soviet Pacific Fleet. Also the first Chinese missile submarine (the name escapes me) was diesel-electric and also based on the soviet golf-class.

 

[Grand Seeker]

One question, how is the submarine implemented?

In regular civ IV the submarine is the ship which has THE poorest design.

In civ IV, the submarine is stealthy? But the anti submarine ships comes before the submarine is invented??? And all ships except for the battleship can see it. Dah. Stupid. The submarine got very high retreat ability. Thats ok, but who is it meant to be used? Are you suppose to attack battleships with your submarines and then afterwords get out of there?

What submarine are supposed to be?
Stealthy and sneaky, and they are supposed to be killing TRANSPORTS!

If nothing is done to make the submarine what it is supposed to be, there is no need to implement more stupid versions!

My Solution:
Submarines attack transports ships before all other ships.

Which would mean that you would realy be affraid of submarines, because no ships can protect your transports against them. Then the submarines would cuz the fear they are suppose to be.

 

[Enverex]

Here's an idea presented on another site for the "normal" civ4
There should be at least these;

You can't use worlds like WW1/WW2 or even place names in Civilization as it doesn't make any sense (there is/was no World War, the places may not exist, etc).

 

[Adrogans]

Hate to bring up another mod, but you could give submarines (or at least diesel electric) a free promotion similar to the Marksman promotion in FfH2 as it makes the unit target the weakest unit in a stack first.