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Suggestions and Requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    The AI wouldn't be able to handle it at all, and I think it would also be frustrating for players.

    Also, if attrition is supposed to depend on distance from cities or borders, it get computationally expensive, especially considering the number of units later in the game.
     
  2. char81

    char81 Warlord

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    Hmm, good point, maybe I've been playing too much eu4. Maybe it could only be for offensive oriented ships before ironclads?


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  3. Alpaya

    Alpaya Chieftain

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    Is it possible somehow to do that Aztecs and Incas could be conquered only by Spanish, but not by any nation who appears first near them? This conquering mechanics is only one thing which I do not like in this mod. This becomes my main goal in any game to conquer these nations and build Summer palace in Mexico. I did this by Japanese, by Indonesians, by Chinese, and this had very little impact on my stability, despite that this is huge historical untrue for these nations. If you want to leave this conquer mechanics, at least please make a huge impact for stability for those nations who did this except Spanish. Thank you.
     
  4. char81

    char81 Warlord

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    What makes the Spanish so special that only they could conquer the Aztecs? The Spanish did well in the new world because they had the drive to explore and colonize it along with the technology. If a country could obtain a similar drive and technology, then I don't see how it would be impossible for that country to replicate the Spanish conquests. Conquest is the easy part, holding it is a different story. Even then if you have a large enough population and effective administration it wouldn't be difficult to keep the Aztec land.


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  5. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

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    Kind of a minor thing, but I actually like Navy SEALs better as the American unique unit than the Minuteman.

    Or another idea could be to do like you did with Ship of the Line and make it a unit for everyone: rename Navy SEALs to Spec Ops or Commando, give it the same abilities as Marine and Paratrooper, and make it the final upgraded unit for both of those.
     
  6. Alpaya

    Alpaya Chieftain

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    Nothing make Spanish special, just historical accuracy. It depends on if we want to repeat history of the world on our screens or change it in way like we want. I think at least it's necessary to increase Stability penalty for non Spanish conquerors.
     
  7. char81

    char81 Warlord

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    I think the goal here is for more of an open ended guided history.


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  8. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

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    I just rolled a 3000BC Ottoman start, it took 15 minutes. According to the description it would be something like 35 minutes. It holds true for most games that the time factor is inflated by roughly 100%. And I have no super computer, I think you should halve them to reflect modern computing power (AMD Quad core 3,6ghz cpu and 8 gig of RAM).

    And for the Ottoman start: Byzantium offered Open Borders. The next turn they sailed around the globe (1290 AD) and when the cities in the area flipped to me they collapsed.

    I am supposed to found the crappy city in between Ankara and Istanbul? I just waited for the flip.
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Usually you should spawn without a settler, if you have one that is the consequence of a flip. You can either try to capture Constantinople on the first turn or wait for the flip.
     
  10. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

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    Ok, sounds reasonable. But now I have tried three starts. Byzantium wants to sign open borders all the time. Werent they supposed to start of at war? And it also seems that Byzantium can respawn close to Turk spawn making them safe against DoW.
     
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    War on spawn has been disabled for human players for a while now.
     
  12. Xfactor

    Xfactor Chieftain

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    It has been disabled ? On Arabia starts i tend to start at war with Byz , same goes for when i play Turks and i start at war with byz, but it tends to happen way less. Byz also sometimes starts at war with Persia if Persia has overextended to the Balkans.
     
  13. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

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    I started at war with the egyptians as ottomans.
     
  14. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Stalin and Starlight, Stalling a Stallion

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    Hi there everybody, I am now going to present a list of various ideas that I have written down during boring uni lectures and long train rides. As always keep in mind that I am basing all this off my knowledge of 1.12 and whatever I learn second hand via hearsay about the current development, so some things might already be implemented or obsolete.

    Trade Routes should provide food and/or production in addition to commerce the lategame. Just look at modern megacities like New York, London or Shanghai, they aren't so big because they have so much food within a certain radius, but because they are centers of trade and comerce and can import food from all over the world. This is very easily implemented via XML for civics, as there is a tag that gives +X% to whatever yield you want from trade routes, e.g. you could double commerce or you could make all trade routes provide food and/or production which itself is boosted by things like the Lighthouse. This would certainly be the easiest way for Leoreth, as he could just give that effect to all Economy civics but Guilds and the default one, however it would make the civics screen look pretty inelegant when almost every civic in a category has the same "+X% Food from Trade Routes +% Production from Trade Routes" description, so another way to implement food and/or production from trade routes might be better for gameplay. Ideally it should be unlocked by techs, Production by Railroad and Food by Refrigeration I think. Certain civics could still be used to boost this effect further, giving Leoreth more tools to finally get wretched Mercantilism to work without giving up the imo very fitting ban of foreign trade routes.

    Overall I want less clutter on the map by resources, especially in areas that are heavily urbanized in real life like England, the American East Coast and Japan, as they should be filled witth cottages.

    The AI should get a new diolomatic modifier just for getting units gifted, as the "fair and forthright trade" modifier is capped at +4. Something like "You supplied us with weapons". This simulates arms trading, and will certainly make life easier for a Russia headed for the UHV.

    Now to make myself very unpopular, let me bring forth the notion that Civ5 isn't entirely bad. Something we should definitely steal is the concept of late game international projects triggered by international voting. Basically in Civ5 the World Council / United Nations has three resolutions that when adopted unlock the ability to invest hammers into a specific international project for everyone, like the World Fair or the International Space Station. Any civ can invest as much or as little as they want in however many cities they want, and once finished there's three tiers of prices, two that are given to any civs that reached certain milestones (like 200 Hammers or 500 Hammers) and and one that is received by the civ which invested the most production. This ought to get rid of the massive overproduction in the lategame everyone keeps whining about.

    Also, City States.

    Workers ought to be consumed upon constructing cottages, you have something to throw production at and I don't have to deal with idle workers againk it's win-win.

    Efticiency of Wealth, Research and Culture yadda yadda, and don't forget the failgold!

    Make National Wonders provide an extra yield or commerce type per specific specialist, e.g. Ironworks for Engineers and settled Great Engineers, so specialists remain competitive in the lategame even without running specific civics. Could be food, could be production, could be commerce, whatever. This also has the upshot of making every National Wonder more desirable.
    Slightly buff priests to make up for lack of dedicated NW for them, I always found it odd they don't provide culture to be honest

    Industrial Park provides extra production and/or commerce with Oil, Coal, Power, or maybe +X% Production from trade routes, just give the poor fella something to make it worth building!

    Here is what I would like all improvements to look like:

    Farms remain as they are

    Cottage:
    Consumes Worker upon construction

    Town:
    Carries Irrigation
    Acts like a city for combat purposes
    +25% Defense
    +4C
    +1C with Printing Press
    +1P with Railroad (route)
    +1C with Mass Media
    +1C with Fiber Optics
    +1C with Future Tech (Come on, it'll be hilarious!)

    Fort:
    Acts like a city for combat purposes
    Carries Irrigation
    Ensures control of tile for builder independent of cultural pressure (can also be used for the likes of Russia to connect arctic resources without having to settle there)
    +100% Defense
    +1C
    +1P with Military Science or maybe Railroad

    Workshop:
    +1P
    -1F, +1P with Guilds
    +1P with Chemistry
    +1C with Steam Power
    +1C with Railroad (route)
    +1P with Robotics

    Watermill:
    Leaves Forest in place
    +1P
    +1P with Engineering
    +1C with Guilds
    +1C with Replaceable Parts

    Lumbermill:
    Unlocked at Mathematics
    +1P
    +1P, +1C when next to river (to simulate pre-Industrial logging only really being cost effective along rivers on a large scale)
    +1P with Replaceable Parts
    +1C with Railroad (route)

    Forest Preserve:
    Carries Irrigation
    +1 Happiness in nearby cities
    +%chance of forest spread
    +1C
    +2C when next to river
    +1C with Ecology

    Mine:
    +1P
    +1P with Iron Working
    +1P with Steam Power
    +1C with Railroad
    +1P with Robotics

    Windmill:
    +1F
    +1C with Engineering
    +1P with Replaceable Parts
    +1C with Electricity
    +1C with Plastics
    +1P with Robotics

    Sprinkle in civic bonuses as needed

    Btw has that one bug ever been fixed where Lumbermills and Preserves don't provide commerce when on riverbends?

    Something else we can steal from Civ5: Barbarian Camps! It's just frustrating when barbarians randomly (well historically, but unless you are an expert for the history of a given civ or replay the same civ over and over it might as well be random) pop up in the middle your empire and wreck your stuff. Thus I suggest we abolish barbarians popping up by themselves at all. Instead, whenever previously a group of barbarians was scripted to spawn somewhere, a Barbarian Fort (which if in your borders flips the tile to Barbarian control until you conquer it) appears instead a few turns before, along with a garrison that will never ever leave their camp. Then, at the point where the barbarians were supposed to pop up previously, they do, in the fort, and from there proceed as they would have previously, that is ransacking and pillaging everything in sight. This has the benefit of giving the player a forewarning, and gives them time to move units into place. If they already have units in the vicinity they can just conquer the fort right away, preventing the previously scripted barbarians (which should ideally be stronger than whatever garrisons the fort) from spawning in the first place. This system would help inexperienced players keep their lands safe from barbarians unless they really only have minimal units and still reward veterans that already know every little scripted detail in and out.

    Aaaaaaaaaand that's everything for now. Good night everybody.
     
  15. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

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    We already see this happen to an extent with the Celts, the Seljuk Turks, and the Silk Road barbarian cities (Samarkand, Merv, etc.). However, I notice that the production of those cities tends to be rather low, which ultimately leads to their easy demise (heck, I notice the Celtic cities in Gaul often get destroyed by barbarians if Rome doesn't capture them).

    Leoreth gave indication that he is interested in revamping the mechanics for Independents in the future, so Barbarian changes could be done in tandem. I think there is an argument to be made that spamming barbarians in random places to destroy improvements (oh you Mohawks argh) may not be the most elegant DoC representation of groups such as the Gauls, the Goths, (ok maybe the Huns and Xiongnu), the Bantu, and the Native Americans.
     
  16. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Stalin and Starlight, Stalling a Stallion

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    The problem of low production wouldn't exist if we take forts and just script the number and intervals of units appearing.
     
  17. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

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    I would prefer two things:

    - All goody huts are guarded by barbs (or maybe even natives so you cant get the three-four guarnteed wins)
    - Give the celts some defensive units on spawn in their celtic cities
     
  18. sercer88

    sercer88 Emperor

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    I don't know if much discussion has been made of the difficulty levels, but here we go:

    Ever since RFC I've been wondering why it's so difficult (for me!) to maintain a high research rate - even with the (usually by FAR) highest GDP in the world. Even on RFC's lowest difficulty setting (and RFC only had 3 difficulty settings) and double the GDP of my next closest adversary, that AI would normally be AT LEAST as technologically advanced as I was.

    Now, fast forward to Dawn of Civilization, and the problem persists.
    For example, right now I'm playing a game as the Russians (Marathon speed, Heir difficulty) and I have almost double the GDP as England (who in turn has what looks like double the GDP of the average civ behind them) but they are 5 full techs ahead of me in research. They would be 8 if not for some limited tech stealing and crazy tech deals with my vassals.

    My point here is this:
    While I understand the need to make things balanced and historical, I think it's not too much to ask that there be a difficulty setting where it's not so crazy of an idea that the best economy in the world should usually be the most advanced technologically! If I have twice the GDP of my next closest rival, I shouldn't have to be stealing technologies and propping up my vassals just to break even with them!
    On the easiest difficulty level, I mean.
    I might be the only one here who actually plays on that lowest difficulty setting (at least it seems that way with some of the crazy games posted in the gameplay guides section) so maybe doing something like this wouldn't be top priority, I get it. But please consider this for future releases!
     
  19. civcivcivcivciv

    civcivcivcivciv Warlord

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    please make speed more slowly

    this is so fast

    :)

    and the italy civilization

    they doesn't come out

    what s wrong i do ? ?

    even scenario ad 1700

    there s no italy.

    they ll come out later ?
     
  20. Chep

    Chep Emperor

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    You can change the speed to "epic" or even "Marathon" to make it slower.

    Also: if you want to play Italy you have to start the game with a 3000BC or 600AD-scenario. They're not playable in the 1700AD-scenario since you wouldnt be able to win their UHV anyway.

    @sercer88:
    I'm not sure if it's still in the game, but it used to be that every city above a certain limit (I think ~12) slows down your research (by making techs more expensive).

    Try liberating a few of your useless cities to see if it is still the case for you.

    But yeah, the AI teches really quickly right now.

    I am currently playing Japan/Indonesia (600AD, Emperor) and each time the Spanish show up around 1450 to found Manila (meaning they have Astronomy researched by then).
     

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