Suggestions and Requests

[jorissimo]

I had been looking for a file like that, thanks!

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

We all know how frustrating it can be when you think you've got a good thing going only for an unexpected flip or spawn to ruin a large part of your empire. Certainly this gets better as you get more experienced in the mod and learn how its mechanics work and when, where and under what circumstances flips and spawns happen, but when you're new to the mod or playing a civ whose history you know little about, such events coming out of nowhere can be discouraging. I have seen first hand how a friend of mine got turned off from playing this mod after he lost half of his Roman empire to the Byzantine spawn and then lose almost all of his troops to desertion when he tried to reconquer the east.

I therefore suggest that, at least when you are playing on the easiest difficulty (as you probably will when you are brand new), the human player gets warning popups before a major event that is going to negatively impact them is about to happen, say ten turns in advance. Obvious examples would be the Mongol spawn when you are China or Korea, European conquerors when you are Native American or Alexander's conquests when you are Egypt, Babylon or Persia.

Of course we can do better than just having the game tell you with no bells and whistles "yo stuff is about to happen that you should prepare for". If we look at Fall From Heaven II for inspiration, when the Armageddon counter passes certain points you get nice flavorful popups telling you for instance that if you foolish mortals don't stop sinning soon you are going to invite far darker beings onto this plane of existence than you can handle, with the first such popup being an advance warning and only subsequent ones coming along with actual negative effects. With some creativity we can turn contrived, frustrating and unexpected game mechanics surprising you out of nowhere into ominously foreshadowed flavorful adventures! These messages could even give you a subtle hint of what would likely be the best course of action, i.e. strengthening defenses against conqueror events or abandoning doomed regions that will soon flip.

Imagine you are playing Persia and it's 400 BC. Suddenly you receive this message: "Travelers from the west report that one of the accursed Greek tribes, the so called Macedonians, have in a shockingly short amount of time made massive improvements to their military infrastructure and training and are currently in the process of taking over all of Greece. Many worry that their rapid expansion will not stop there and that they will seek to conquer our mighty empire once they are ready. Your generals urge you to build up your own military and strengthen the western garrisons. They especially caution you about the dangers of the famed heavy infantry the Greeks are known to field."

For China it could be something about the commanders of your northern garrisons warning you about the increasing level of organization the Mongols seem to develop, advising you to strengthen your defenses, especially against cavalry, in your most important cities in easily defendable positions, but to abandon outlying desert towns as they are likely not worth the cost of trying to hold them, especially since the local population is getting increasingly rebellious as it is.

For the Native Americans it could be something like "Your oracles are prophesizing that the end is nigh and the gods themselves will arrive within our lifetime to strike us down if we are not prepared", with the warning popping up when the first non-American civ has researched Caravels.

And now, for a completely unrelated suggestion, how about enabling espionage against Independents along with certain special actions like negotiating trade and open borders or decreasing the likelihood of any given unit deserting to a newly spawned civ depending on how much espionage you have against Independents?

 

[jorissimo]

Staying on the topic of Carthage (I just can't shut up about it): I've been reading about the North African elephants used by Carthage, and learned that they went extinct in classical times due to over-exploitation, not only in wars but also due to Roman circus games (some 3500 elephants perished this way during the reign of Augustus alone). So I was thinking: could we have the two elephant resources disappear from North Africa after a specific year, maybe having them replaced by something else?

 

[Leoreth]

They already do disappear.

 

[jorissimo]

Wow, I had no idea. I somehow assumed they didn't. Probably because I remembered it that way from regular RFC. That just goes to show the attention for detail you put into this mod.

 

[bluepotato]

They already do disappear.

They also disappear when the Romans didn't even conquer Carthage. Do we assume that the Carthaginians would've also killed all of them?
My point is, maybe they shouldn't disappear if Carthage is still alive.
Also, when the bronze is replaced by iron in Egypt, the mine is also gone. Is that intentional?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Even when they are not red blobs, I believe there are certain unit skins in Varietas Delectas that could do with some... changes.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, yikes. Are there more like that?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Oh, yikes. Are there more like that?

You mean Nazi imagery in general or Nazi imagery for civs that are not Germany?

 

[Leoreth]

I meant Nazi imagery for Germany, but only because I didn't consider that other civs may also show Nazi imagery.

I would like to purge all Nazi imagery from unit models in the mod.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I meant Nazi imagery for Germany, but only because I didn't consider that other civs may also show Nazi imagery.

I would like to purge all Nazi imagery from unit models in the mod.

Okay so good news first: Some worldbuilder testing revealed that the Dutch Bomber model actually looks different, it's just that when a unit under construction is displayed in another civ's city you have visibility into thanks to espionage the unit is displayed with your civ's skin instead of the one actually building it.

As for German (that is Prussian, Holy Rome/Austria seems to be all clear) units, the Bomber and Fighter both have the Hakenkreuz on their tail and the Infantry unit is clearly wearing a Wehrmacht uniform. Also I guess there's the 88 on the side of the Panzer model, but that's on the developers of Vanilla Civ4. Apart from that most Industrial units look like WWI military and all but one post-Industrial units either use the default skin or seem to be based on the Bundeswehr.
*grumbles to himself about how some people sure like circlejerking about how stylish the Nazis were and then they just immediately move on to the BRD, because apparently even just a single DDR skin is too much to ask for*

The one post-Industrial exception is the Stealth Bomber, which I guess is based on one of the fifty thousand megalomaniacal superweapon designs the Nazis had on paper only to never actually build it. At any rate, it doesn't have the Hakenkreuz showing anywhere, only an Iron Cross on each wing.

Truth be told, I'm actually surprised it's only those few units, in Legends of Revolutions which I'm modding on the side there's far more Nazi unit skins, all of which seem to originate from the merging of the "Wolfshanze" (nice spelling btw) mod which in its Civilopedia has this to say about one of the many UUs it gratuitously added for Germany:

The Waffen-SS were the armed units of the Schutzstaffel, better known as the SS. The SS were the protective guards of the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) - or the "Nazis." Many soldiers in the Waffen-SS distinguished themselves in combat, and in a small number of cases, became notorious for their atrocities. However, these crimes against humanity should not label the entire Waffen-SS as an organization of hate. The vast majority of soldiers were combatants, not criminals

Yikes.

Anyway, out of curiosity, between retaining the Lebensraum UHV from Vanilla RFC and even adding Hitler as a German leader (who does have a Hakenkreuz behind him as well as on his arm) yourself why do you draw the line when it comes to military unit skins?

 

[1SDANi]

Does Varietas change unit models based on Civics? Maybe move those models to Fascist Germany if they aren't already?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Does Varietas change unit models based on Civics? Maybe move those models to Fascist Germany if they aren't already?

I would be surprised if that was the case, because playing out my Free Socialist Republic of Germany (complete with Democracy and Egalitarianism instead of State Party and Totalitarianism!) game would be a lot less awkward if I didn't have to unleash Swastika bearing Stukas on Russian soldiers wearing a red star on their hats even though they fight for the Czar.

It would be a cool feature though to have unit skins change based on civics and state religion. Maybe a few decades from now in version 19.17 Leoreth could get to work on it.

 

[Nyayr]

A different issue, and a small thing about troops upgrading to a new class. The Mandugai now as I understand upgrades to hussars not Pistolier, since they were similar to pistoliers. Similar things are the Legion (slight better then heavy swordsman even, less cost), Hwacha (same as a cannon). Doesn't make sense for a nation to upgrade to something similar for higher cost.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks for the summary.

I am drawing a distinction for unit skins because you do not have the choice not to use them (except not using the unit entirely I guess), and they show up for the AI regardless of context. The purpose is not to edit all Nazi stuff out of the game, and it's alright in my opinion to display Nazi symbology in its proper context.

 

[jorissimo]

They also disappear when the Romans didn't even conquer Carthage. Do we assume that the Carthaginians would've also killed all of them?
My point is, maybe they shouldn't disappear if Carthage is still alive.

I think they should disappear at some point no matter who is the owner. Elephants cannot be domesticated as they won't reproduce in captivity. That means that every elephant to be used in war must be captured in the wild. Elephants being slow reproducers, one can imagine that, in the long run, a population simply cannot sustain such a loss rate. Especially in a place with little forest cover such as North Africa elephant populations are even more fragile. Compare this for example to forest-rich India and South-East Asia were elephants are still used for a variety of purposes and haven't gone extinct yet.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I am drawing a distinction for unit skins because you do not have the choice not to use them (except not using the unit entirely I guess), and they show up for the AI regardless of context. The purpose is not to edit all Nazi stuff out of the game, and it's alright in my opinion to display Nazi symbology in its proper context.

Fair enough. So in a hypothetical far off future version where unit skins are based on a civ's civics, we could see Swastikas on German units again if they are fascist, or more important for me, proper Nationale Volksarmee units for a communist Germany?

 

[Leoreth]

Well that's a logical truism isn't it?

 

[1SDANi]

Or Antivax Propoganda for Pagan America?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Anyway, what specifically do you want to do about the German Bomber and Fighter models? Just replace them with the standard model or paint Iron Crosses over the Swastikas?