Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
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Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
Okay, found the Japanese modifier logic. There's hard code in CvTeam::getCivilizationResearchModifier() that reduces the research modifier by 20 (for the human) or 40 (for the AI). The Modernization UP in turn adjusts the discount (30 for the human, 10 for the AI). However, the modifier reduction is set to take effect only starting from the Global era. Just sharing, if it helps anyone.
Reus
Polar Bear
Are there any plans to revise Global Warming mechanics? I think it is one of the core components of vanilla that has great ramifications to gameplay but has yet to be touched.
My most recent game as Russia had Global Warming striking as early as 1866, and I haven't even had access to coal yet at that point. Most of the time my cities were squeaky clean, however there were series of plagues that hit at relatively close time frequencies, and would naturally turn every city unhealthy, not to mention every other civ as well. So my guess is those plagues caused it, which is hilarious.
Meanwhile, in other games I could play up to 2030-2050 and encountered no Global Warming whatsoever.
I'm not savvy on how Civ4 code works and their limitations, but if possible my suggestion is to separate sickness from pollution. So currently, 'sickness' is a catch-all value that represents 'sickness' from unsanitary situation (e.g. overcrowding, floodplains, lack of sanitary and healthcare facilities, etc.) and 'pollution' (e.g. from coal plants, factories, etc.).
If separated, the former should be the value that contributes to plagues, inhibits population growth, etc. and could be countered by better sanitary and healthcare infrastructure, etc. whilst the latter is the value that contributes towards global warming and environmental damage that can be countered by the use of clean energy etc.
In regards to the ramifications of global warming itself, I think it should be better than random desertification. Such as:
My most recent game as Russia had Global Warming striking as early as 1866, and I haven't even had access to coal yet at that point. Most of the time my cities were squeaky clean, however there were series of plagues that hit at relatively close time frequencies, and would naturally turn every city unhealthy, not to mention every other civ as well. So my guess is those plagues caused it, which is hilarious.
Meanwhile, in other games I could play up to 2030-2050 and encountered no Global Warming whatsoever.
I'm not savvy on how Civ4 code works and their limitations, but if possible my suggestion is to separate sickness from pollution. So currently, 'sickness' is a catch-all value that represents 'sickness' from unsanitary situation (e.g. overcrowding, floodplains, lack of sanitary and healthcare facilities, etc.) and 'pollution' (e.g. from coal plants, factories, etc.).
If separated, the former should be the value that contributes to plagues, inhibits population growth, etc. and could be countered by better sanitary and healthcare infrastructure, etc. whilst the latter is the value that contributes towards global warming and environmental damage that can be countered by the use of clean energy etc.
In regards to the ramifications of global warming itself, I think it should be better than random desertification. Such as:
- Floodplains disappearing, due to a hotter/drier climate, particularly in hot/equatorial regions, which would lead to reduced food yields. Representing famine and drought that would be prevalent in some regions in a global warming scenario.
- Grasslands turning into plains, mostly same as the above.
- Island features disappearing. While full tiles turning into coasts might be an overkill in the scale that the game is set, island features disappearing makes more sense and appropriately represent the increase in sea level that is already affecting some island nations and communities today IRL.
- Desertification should still happen, but it should be limited to places adjacent to an existing desert tile rather than having it be truly random.
- Tundras turning into plains, representing the thawing permafrost that potentially renders some colder regions suitable for agriculture.
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
I propose using something akin to the Armageddon-Counter mechanic from Fall From Heaven II. We wouldn't even be the first ones to basically steal that whole thing and replace all the demon-hell stuff with ecological damage, Planetfall has us beaten there with its Planetflowering counter. Maybe we can just copy that wholesale, icons and all, and rename it "CO2-Counter" or some-such. Planetfall even does what you are suggesting and has a separate pollution mechanic completely independent of health.
Here are some screenshots to illustrate:
In the city screen you can see how much "Favorable Planet" versus "Unfavorable Planet" values you produce, similar to health versus unhealth and happiness versus unhappiness. You can get them from population, civics, buildings, improvements, specialists etc. Chopping down all the vegetation to build a parking lot gives you "Unfavorable Planet", building a Nature Preserve gives you "Favorable Planet".
The (Un)Favorable Planet values of all your cities combined determine your overall Planet Attitude, which in turn determines how easy or hard it is to bring the environment under your control, in some cases literally as there's alien lifeforms you can capture and/or fight against. Also, there's a diplo-modifier that makes some civilizations dislike you the worse your Planet Attitude is and like you the better it is, "You destroy Planet" and "You preserve Planet" respectively. The Flowering Counter for the most part takes into account how much xenofungus and related features and improvements there are on the planet and thus how close the planet is to becoming an actual thinking being. The closer it becomes, the more aggressive the wildlife etc.
Most of that can be translated into DoC pretty easily. "Unfavorable Planet" becomes "Local Pollution" or "Local Greenhouse Gas Emissions" and a player's Planet Attitude becomes "Overall Pollution" or "Overall Greenhouse Gas Emissions" or some-such. "Favorable Planet" could be turned into "Environmentalism" or "Anti-Pollution Measures". With the Flowering Counter we have to do some more tinkering to re-purpose it as a third level above city- and civilization pollution, global pollution, which counts the pollution caused by all civilizations everywhere and across all of history. The higher this "Global Pollution" or "Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions" or perhaps even "Global Average Temperature" Counter, the higher the likelihood of certain events like you described happening, with some events requiring the world having crossed certain thresholds already. I don't know at the moment if this is the case in Planetfall, but IIRC in Fall From Heaven II, which is where this counter mechanic originally came from, diplo-modifiers for "You are evil", "You are neutral" and "You are good" become more extreme, both in positive and negative directions, the higher the counter is. Imo we should implement that too. The higher global pollution/emissions is, the more AIs should generally dislike the worst polluters, and conversely like civs which actually take steps towards reducing their carbon footprint etc..
As an added twist, we could hide all the actual interface stuff in the early game and only make it appear with some Industrial+ tech, as pollution didn't really have the same serious ramifications back before the Industrial Revolution as it does now. Or go a step further and only start the actual calculations after the first Factory is built anywhere in the world or something like that, as pre-industrial pollution was relatively negligible and could just be assumed to be zero for the purposes of this mechanic.
Cacaso
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2020
- Messages
- 231
Suggestion to create a new corporation "meat industry"
Consumes: Cow, pig, deer, soy
Competes with "fishing industry" and "cereal industry"
requires "refrigeration" to spread to your cities
All cities: +0.25 food / 0.20 unhappiness per resource consumed
attracted by:
additional company resources
adopt free enterprise civic
smokehouse, supermarkets, container terminals
trade routes
be argentine civilization
This new soy resource would be found in "plain / savanna" tiles, and would generate +1 food / + 2 gold with a plantation improvement (I don't suggest farm to not overdo the food production)
Soy: China and India will be the native area for the first 2 resources,
in 1860 spawn 1 tile with "good soil for growing soy" in Russia and ucrania,
in 1890 spawn 4 tiles with "good soil for growing soy" in USA,
in 1890 spawn 4 tiles with "good soil for growing soy" in Brazil,
in 1910 spawn 3 tiles with "good soil for growing soy" in argentina,
in 1920 spawn 1 tile with "good soil for growing soy" in canada,
in 1930 spawn soy resource in paraguay, bolivia, uruguay,
Consumes: Cow, pig, deer, soy
Competes with "fishing industry" and "cereal industry"
requires "refrigeration" to spread to your cities
All cities: +0.25 food / 0.20 unhappiness per resource consumed
attracted by:
additional company resources
adopt free enterprise civic
smokehouse, supermarkets, container terminals
trade routes
be argentine civilization
This new soy resource would be found in "plain / savanna" tiles, and would generate +1 food / + 2 gold with a plantation improvement (I don't suggest farm to not overdo the food production)
Soy: China and India will be the native area for the first 2 resources,
in 1860 spawn 1 tile with "good soil for growing soy" in Russia and ucrania,
in 1890 spawn 4 tiles with "good soil for growing soy" in USA,
in 1890 spawn 4 tiles with "good soil for growing soy" in Brazil,
in 1910 spawn 3 tiles with "good soil for growing soy" in argentina,
in 1920 spawn 1 tile with "good soil for growing soy" in canada,
in 1930 spawn soy resource in paraguay, bolivia, uruguay,
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1SDANi
The Fading Memory
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 3,081
When Global Warming is overhauled, the Meat Industry should be a major contributor to Climate Change.
Kewlipo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2015
- Messages
- 99
Oh wow, that's really interesting. I couldn't find that at all when I looked, thank you for sharing. I'm away from my desktop at the moment so I can't look directly at the code — by "reduce the research modifier" do you mean reduce the total number of beakers needed to research a technology and (therefore) stack upon individual civ modifiers? Or does it actually modify each individual civ's science modifier?
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
It's somewhat a mix of the two, and I forgot to mention that the special code I was referring to is only specific for Japan. The DLL method gets the research cost modifier for each civ defined in Modifiers.py. If the civ in question is Japan and it is in the Global Era or later, the method reduces that modifier by 20 (human) or 40 (AI), but this is not reflected in the modifiers section in the Civilization Data screen in the WB. The method also contains codes to increase China's research modifier based on its current era. The resulting modifier (whether or not the modifier had changed) is then multiplied to the base research cost divided by 100.
Cacaso
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2020
- Messages
- 231
nature reserve improvement could be built on the marshes features with the "civil rights" / "globalism" / "ecology" technology, and could be choped with the "infrastructure" technology. But that would affect the feature, not Base terrain.
That would be interesting to represent the Amazon Rainforest / Pantanal preservation effort
DelilahFlowers
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2019
- Messages
- 14
Or more importantly, paving them over for more mcmansions
I'd really appreciate an overhaul to the diplomacy screen. Seeing 20+ civs with a million different lines between them isn't helpful at all, but it's still the best way to understand who is at war with whom. I'd love a way to see the two sides of a conflict (though I understand this is often complicated by the AI's insistence on declaring war on their allies).
Does anyone know if there is an improved diplomacy advisor in another mod somewhere?
For version 1.17 when we get a bigger map I suggest that instead of having the allowed city placement as 1 square apart, you would change it to 2 squares.
This will help the AI doing better city placements. And also developers doing pre-city placement.
This will help the AI doing better city placements. And also developers doing pre-city placement.
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
I don't think this is recommended. Even in the new map, some areas still have historical cities that are one tile between each other, if you look at it, such as Europe, Egypt, SEA, and Korea.
But its so very annoying and counter productive to have the cities so close together.
Someone else also stated this before, but as a result that the penalty to raze a city is so high areas like Egypt becomes very undesirable to conquer.
If you have that area in your UHV, well your economy is going to suck.
Obvisouly you can't build all historical cities, isn't it enough if there is a square that represents the city, but not all gets built in every game.
Someone else also stated this before, but as a result that the penalty to raze a city is so high areas like Egypt becomes very undesirable to conquer.
If you have that area in your UHV, well your economy is going to suck.
Obvisouly you can't build all historical cities, isn't it enough if there is a square that represents the city, but not all gets built in every game.
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DC123456789
Deity
I think the proper response to that is to adjust the game mechanics to make historical outcomes more preferred, rather than discard historical outcomes to fit current game mechanics.
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