As is accurate according to a historical materialist perspective. If you assume a Marxian view on history then each form of government in the tech tree should be superior to the one preceding it.
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Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Ι wanted to say that too...
Yeah, and that's why I think it's not very useful to design a civic system from this point of view, because it implies that the civic system is just a series of consecutive bonuses to unlock instead of a strategic choice you make to facilitate a specific goal and situation.
Dracosolon
Emperor
Should this model even let you pick your civics, or should you get a revolution whenever the material conditions are right? We wouldn't want to be unrealistic here.
MechatronicJazz
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 316
Yes, you can edit pretty much anything you want, you just need to know some basic programming. There's a guide on making your own mods based on DoC in the forum, but if you don't already know programming basics, you will need to learn that elsewhere. If you already know programming, it shouldn't be too difficult.
On that note, I think making your own version of the civics is the route you should go here. The system you are proposing is at odds with how DoC is designed to work. There's nothing wrong with wanting a different system, but you will have more luck customizing your own than changing the whole mod.
1SDANi
The Fading Memory
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- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 3,080
IMO DoC prolly shouldn't implement theoretical civics. As much of a filthy commie as I am, I'm not sure if we should have a Civic which, even in the brightest timeline, likely wouldn't even really be used until like, the last 50 turns of the game at best. Not to mention the awkwardness of assigning effects to a civic which thus far has no regions where it's been historically prominent. All other civics can be modeled both to reflect their pros and cons and to encourage greater use in fitting regions and situations, whereas civics like communism and statelessness would only be able to be modeled after the former.
Also, I'm still a proponent of changing Republic's effect, or at least removing the ability for Great People to add 1 Food to cities. It causes it to be the single best civic for the vast majority of long term games. Arabia, Argentina, Brazil, the Byzantines, Canada, Carthage, the Netherlands, England, Ethiopia, Greece, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, the Khmer, Korea, Maya, Morocco, Turkey, Polynesia, Portugal, Rome, Thailand, and the Viking all do far better in long games with Republic than they do with Democracy, let alone the other civics.
Like, I get that Republic is designed to be best for any civ with a coastal capital, but maybe there should be an incentive to swap off it and to Democracy beyond a tiny +5 stability. Being able to effectively double your excess food is just absolutely insane.
Also, I'm still a proponent of changing Republic's effect, or at least removing the ability for Great People to add 1 Food to cities. It causes it to be the single best civic for the vast majority of long term games. Arabia, Argentina, Brazil, the Byzantines, Canada, Carthage, the Netherlands, England, Ethiopia, Greece, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, the Khmer, Korea, Maya, Morocco, Turkey, Polynesia, Portugal, Rome, Thailand, and the Viking all do far better in long games with Republic than they do with Democracy, let alone the other civics.
Like, I get that Republic is designed to be best for any civ with a coastal capital, but maybe there should be an incentive to swap off it and to Democracy beyond a tiny +5 stability. Being able to effectively double your excess food is just absolutely insane.
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Strijder21
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2017
- Messages
- 87
I agree. It's hand down the best and most impactful civic in the game, bar none. Alternative effects which still support its current intent:
* One free specialist per four population, up to two
* One food for the first four specialists
* 2 free food per city
* +2
, +2 
We could then also get rid again of the various nerfs added to it.
KeeperOT7Keys
did nothing wrong
imho civics represent the superstructure which are not always perfect for the base structure and they are only changed if the current superstructure can't support/reproduce the base anymore.
the thing that always gets better is your production/base though, and in that sense the yields/outputs in the game monotonically increase.
anyways sorry if it's derailing the talk.
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
But it's not better than Civil Law which it succeeds?
Hickman888
Prince
I love the implementation of Republic, of giving all specialists a free
to help fuel that early specialist economy. But if we are looking for ways to nerf it for the late game, we could go the route that Monarchy went, and only allow its bonus to apply up to half of the city size. For example, a city size of 10 would only give a total of +5 for all specialists in the city, normal or settled.
Zaddy
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 364
I'm not sure why you would use Republic for the vast majority of civs. I completely disagree that Republic becomes the best civic in long games. Despotism completely blows Republic (and every other government civic before factories and power obsoletes it) out of the water. I very strongly disagree with the idea of nerfing a civic with a pretty small niche use. By the time Republic has to stop competing with Despotism, your cities will has plenty of strong tiles to work, and the happy and healthy caps become much more of a consideration instead of food. In addition, Republic carries a rather heavy stability penality (and, iirc, sharply increases your maintenance costs from number of cities) by the time factories are in play.
The only civs where I would strongly consider using Republic are Korea, Japan (in the early game) and Maya. If you need to do any form of expansion or large scale infrastructure building, Republic is hilariously outclassed.
Just my two cents, of course.
The only civs where I would strongly consider using Republic are Korea, Japan (in the early game) and Maya. If you need to do any form of expansion or large scale infrastructure building, Republic is hilariously outclassed.
Just my two cents, of course.
caketastydelish
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2008
- Messages
- 9,721
I would pay you, Leoreth (100 percent serious) if you made an alternate version of this mod available for download with one key different in mechanics:
One Civs are eliminated, they don't respawn later. And Civs don't collapse unless their original capital is taken from them. This would give what happens in games far more permanent consequences, which is something I'd decisively prefer. It's less historically accurate, but makes for better gameplay in my opinion. It means what happens in wars matter a lot more. Cities will delcare indepdence either when the original civ lost their capital (and thus collapsed) or another historical civ spawned that involved those cities. But that would be the only way. It would put far more strategic emphasis on capturing enemy capitals specifically. And conquest in general would be far more viable.
One Civs are eliminated, they don't respawn later. And Civs don't collapse unless their original capital is taken from them. This would give what happens in games far more permanent consequences, which is something I'd decisively prefer. It's less historically accurate, but makes for better gameplay in my opinion. It means what happens in wars matter a lot more. Cities will delcare indepdence either when the original civ lost their capital (and thus collapsed) or another historical civ spawned that involved those cities. But that would be the only way. It would put far more strategic emphasis on capturing enemy capitals specifically. And conquest in general would be far more viable.
1SDANi
The Fading Memory
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 3,080
I'll give you my 2 cents if you push an update to the repo. This offer is nonexpiring and renewable.
Mr-Goriyaki
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2018
- Messages
- 354
Which mod?
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