need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
Huh, the things one learns, good to know!
Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Glorfindel of Gondolin
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2023
- Messages
- 62
Hello, I have a few ideas that might contribute to this project, and I thought I would share them in case they are of need.
Norse suggestion:
I would like to point out that in the new map Greenland is habitable, so perhaps colonizing it should be part of the Viking UHV, maybe also Iceland.
Maybe also the native American representation (Dog soldiers?) should be expanded to Greenland.
A small note:
Ireland today has around 11% forest cover, but before it was settled, in the not so far past, it had 80% forest cover.
Its really not very important, but maybe a few forest tiles should be added.
similar thing with welsh (no tree coverage at all there).
Also, in the current DoC I heard that there's a mechanism that allows you to take control over respawned civilizations, and that it only applies to specific ones.
In my opinion a greek respawn could be a very fun and immersive event to simulate and experience.
My ideas for:
UB:
An archeological center, it could contribute commerce and culture.
UP:
Self defence:
Nations are more willing to enter defensive pacts, or maybe when declarered war on the most friendly civilizations aid it, or maybe it gets bonus units if attacked from friendly allies.
UU:
Presidential guard, elite defense unit.
Sacred band, a commando unit, can attack without declaring nationality, or even a version of an upgraded spy that can attack troops (kinda like sabotage).
That suggestion was based on my thinking that it wouldn't count as a new civilization, and that those mechanics already exist with other respawns, so I hope that its even relevant.
Another thought that I had (I am sorry if I am overloading this, but I am really exited
) is that maybe a some sort of a tree-planter unit.
In my vision it could be used to expand current forest tiles with a reserve on them, and also automatically construct a nature reserve on the newly-planted adjacent-tile-forest.
It could help balance the modern eras, as most of the forests are destroyed, and also represent replanting and conservation efforts of nowadays.
Oil:
maybe adding a few oil resources in the eastern Mediterranean, near Cyprus, Israel, Lebanon and Egypt to represent the huge reservoirs there.
A huge thanks for reading, I hope its helpful
and that its on the correct thread.
Norse suggestion:
I would like to point out that in the new map Greenland is habitable, so perhaps colonizing it should be part of the Viking UHV, maybe also Iceland.
Maybe also the native American representation (Dog soldiers?) should be expanded to Greenland.
A small note:
Ireland today has around 11% forest cover, but before it was settled, in the not so far past, it had 80% forest cover.
Its really not very important, but maybe a few forest tiles should be added.
similar thing with welsh (no tree coverage at all there).Also, in the current DoC I heard that there's a mechanism that allows you to take control over respawned civilizations, and that it only applies to specific ones.
In my opinion a greek respawn could be a very fun and immersive event to simulate and experience.
My ideas for:
UB:
An archeological center, it could contribute commerce and culture.
UP:
Self defence:
Nations are more willing to enter defensive pacts, or maybe when declarered war on the most friendly civilizations aid it, or maybe it gets bonus units if attacked from friendly allies.
UU:
Presidential guard, elite defense unit.
Sacred band, a commando unit, can attack without declaring nationality, or even a version of an upgraded spy that can attack troops (kinda like sabotage).
That suggestion was based on my thinking that it wouldn't count as a new civilization, and that those mechanics already exist with other respawns, so I hope that its even relevant.
Another thought that I had (I am sorry if I am overloading this, but I am really exited
) is that maybe a some sort of a tree-planter unit.In my vision it could be used to expand current forest tiles with a reserve on them, and also automatically construct a nature reserve on the newly-planted adjacent-tile-forest.
It could help balance the modern eras, as most of the forests are destroyed, and also represent replanting and conservation efforts of nowadays.
Oil:
maybe adding a few oil resources in the eastern Mediterranean, near Cyprus, Israel, Lebanon and Egypt to represent the huge reservoirs there.
A huge thanks for reading, I hope its helpful
and that its on the correct thread.
Enyavar
Prince
- Joined
- May 16, 2015
- Messages
- 510
Having a laborer work for 8 turns should do it. On some terrains, it should be made harder. Available at first only under the Welfare State policy, and for all policies with Ecology. It's a pretty good use for idling workers in the late game.
But aaaaaactually renewable forestry (in Europe) has been a big idea already in the 16th century - mainly just to keep wood production stable and not to deforest everywhere.
My suggestion is that starting with Horticulture, lumbermills are no longer restricted to forested tiles. On forested tiles, nothing changes for a Lumbermill; but on unforested tiles they provide -1 commerce and -1 hammers. If the land tile is not cultivated by a city for X consecutive turns, a forest grows large enough to be used by the lumbermill. This would depend on the fertility of the grounds, I guess:
- Tundra: 30 turns needed for a forest to grow.
- Moorland: 20 turns needed
- Grassland: 10 turns needed. Below 30° north and 30° south, there is a rising chance that jungle grows instead of a forest... that chance being 100% at the equator.
- Plains: 15 turns needed for a forest to grow. Between 30° north and 30° south, another +5 turns.
- Desert, Ice, Taiga, Salt Flats, Steppe, Semidesert, Savannah: not possible to stimulate growth with lumbermills
- Hills: reduce the number of turns needed: -10%
- River tiles: reduce the number of turns needed: -10%
- adjacent forest tiles: reduce the number of turns needed: -10%
- Marsh tiles: 30 turns for a forest to grow; Marsh lumbermills provide no benefits once the forest is grown (resulting in +1 hammers and no additional commerce)
Civic changes:
Public Welfare:
Is currently far behind Free Enterprise and Central Planning in terms of performance. This has bothered me and recently I've ran some experiments by buffing the hurry bonus. I slashed the hurry cost of Public Welfare to 1/3 of the original cost. I think that was a bit too good so maybe putting it to 1.5/3 or 2/3 of the original cost would be more optimal. Earlier I suggested buffing the passive bonuses of Public Welfare by making extra commerce to be dictated by total happiness generated instead of excess happiness. I still think that would also work but at the same time I'm thinking the hurry cost buff would be pretty nice as well. It's always nice to have different kinds of mechanical quirks instead of just passive bonuses. If Public Welfare's hurry was to be buffed a bit I think it'd make a world of difference.
Totalitarianism:
Is currently pretty weak considering how late it's available. The weakest part of the civic I think is the +2
for angry pop as it's not that difficult to eliminate unhappiness. Also instead of buffing something you already have it seems like the bonus is just good for minimizing the damage unhappiness were to cause (It's preferable to have happy cities running specialists/good plots instead of unhappy cities giving you a mere +2). How about having stationed military units granting or 
the same way that stationed troops with Monarchism give happiness? This would play into the +25% military production even during peace time. I'll try and think of some more ideas for this but hopefully this is a good discussion opener. 
Public Welfare:
Is currently far behind Free Enterprise and Central Planning in terms of performance. This has bothered me and recently I've ran some experiments by buffing the hurry bonus. I slashed the hurry cost of Public Welfare to 1/3 of the original cost. I think that was a bit too good so maybe putting it to 1.5/3 or 2/3 of the original cost would be more optimal. Earlier I suggested buffing the passive bonuses of Public Welfare by making extra commerce to be dictated by total happiness generated instead of excess happiness. I still think that would also work but at the same time I'm thinking the hurry cost buff would be pretty nice as well. It's always nice to have different kinds of mechanical quirks instead of just passive bonuses. If Public Welfare's hurry was to be buffed a bit I think it'd make a world of difference.
Totalitarianism:
Is currently pretty weak considering how late it's available. The weakest part of the civic I think is the +2
for angry pop as it's not that difficult to eliminate unhappiness. Also instead of buffing something you already have it seems like the bonus is just good for minimizing the damage unhappiness were to cause (It's preferable to have happy cities running specialists/good plots instead of unhappy cities giving you a mere +2). How about having stationed military units granting or the same way that stationed troops with Monarchism give happiness? This would play into the +25% military production even during peace time. I'll try and think of some more ideas for this but hopefully this is a good discussion opener. Dracosolon
King
Public Welfare seems like it could have a health bonus for thematic reasons along with culture slider stuff but as a whole I'm not sure what strategic needs it should synergize with.
I know that making the French spawn earlier as the Franks is an idea that is not New.
However :
- There could be a Gothic unplayable civ like the Seldjuks.
Spawns at Tolosa in 400 BC.
They would conquer the Western Roman Empire instead of barbarians and would also be easy to beat as the Moors.
Then Spain would spawn a little later in 800 AD to finish the work.
Yes I know I say Gothic but it's the Visigoths...
- And the Franks should spawn in 450 AD at Tournai. But they wouldn't become the French. They would become HRE.
The French would spawn only in 840 AD to simulate the Treaty of Verdun.
That would improve gameplay in this century without any new payable civ.
However :
- There could be a Gothic unplayable civ like the Seldjuks.
Spawns at Tolosa in 400 BC.
They would conquer the Western Roman Empire instead of barbarians and would also be easy to beat as the Moors.
Then Spain would spawn a little later in 800 AD to finish the work.
Yes I know I say Gothic but it's the Visigoths...
- And the Franks should spawn in 450 AD at Tournai. But they wouldn't become the French. They would become HRE.
The French would spawn only in 840 AD to simulate the Treaty of Verdun.
That would improve gameplay in this century without any new payable civ.
Dracosolon
King
Now that I think about it, switching which of France or Germany starts out as the Franks would make Germany's goal of conquering the Catholic Holy City less dependent on chance.
Dracosolon
King
The discussion about the American Civil War reminds me of a somewhat silly idea I've had purely for flavor:
In DoC, civil wars and periods of internal dissensions aren't represented, because the game doesn't operate at a scale where such conflicts could be represented without having disproportionate effects (or even, often, enough space on the map to even represent such conflicts without massively inconveniencing the player), and without having somewhat arbitrary triggers.
Still, one could say such events are abstractly represented by anarchy mechanisms: times of changes lead to contestation and conflict, represented by your civ being unable to do anything (because they're too busy dealing with these troubles, or because the basic functions of government are suspended due to political chaos).
The idea would be to accentuate this thematic link by having a sort of super anarchy mechanism, representing a single moment of great trouble in a civ's history. It would work like this:
- One per civ (at least for the ones that lasted long enough - presumably Harappa shouldn't have some of its precious turns wasted on this),
- Triggered by a specific tech, different for each civ, to ensure a very roughly historical time period,
- When triggered, the player is invited to change their civics, religion, or both (these were typically periods of great change and you might as well put these idle turns to good use),
- A fixed length of several turns, longer than usual anarchy, with your changed civics having no impact on that length.
Possible effects:
- Randomly destroyed improvements and/or buildings, with the presence of military units reducing or even cancelling those odds,
- Great General points and XP for your units (maybe with some lost health even?),
- At the conclusion of the turns of anarchy, a free Great Person, its type depending on the civ.
As I said it's not that serious of an idea, being somewhat clunky or maybe annoying to experience, more of a reflection on how such periods could be represented with a relatively light touch.
In DoC, civil wars and periods of internal dissensions aren't represented, because the game doesn't operate at a scale where such conflicts could be represented without having disproportionate effects (or even, often, enough space on the map to even represent such conflicts without massively inconveniencing the player), and without having somewhat arbitrary triggers.
Still, one could say such events are abstractly represented by anarchy mechanisms: times of changes lead to contestation and conflict, represented by your civ being unable to do anything (because they're too busy dealing with these troubles, or because the basic functions of government are suspended due to political chaos).
The idea would be to accentuate this thematic link by having a sort of super anarchy mechanism, representing a single moment of great trouble in a civ's history. It would work like this:
- One per civ (at least for the ones that lasted long enough - presumably Harappa shouldn't have some of its precious turns wasted on this),
- Triggered by a specific tech, different for each civ, to ensure a very roughly historical time period,
- When triggered, the player is invited to change their civics, religion, or both (these were typically periods of great change and you might as well put these idle turns to good use),
- A fixed length of several turns, longer than usual anarchy, with your changed civics having no impact on that length.
Possible effects:
- Randomly destroyed improvements and/or buildings, with the presence of military units reducing or even cancelling those odds,
- Great General points and XP for your units (maybe with some lost health even?),
- At the conclusion of the turns of anarchy, a free Great Person, its type depending on the civ.
As I said it's not that serious of an idea, being somewhat clunky or maybe annoying to experience, more of a reflection on how such periods could be represented with a relatively light touch.
Derdan
Warlord
Isn't it bad enough when a volcano erupts and destroys your windmill?
Well, that gives me an idea.
There could be an event, when your civ is unstable, that would split your civilization in two.
Human players could choose one side and then play with it.
But maybe it's too difficult, and in this case it would only happen to IA.
Say this because there are many examples amongst Doc civs : Germany, Korea, USA, Austria... And even Russia, between the red and the white.
There could even be another event when your civ is one again...
Enyavar
Prince
- Joined
- May 16, 2015
- Messages
- 510
Yes, I like the idea of adding suspense to revolutions: So, if a civilization changes the government, there might be a chance of shedding cities, or troops rebelling (especially outdated troops). In case that the civilization in question currently rules over another one's territories, there could be a flip-back (like the rebellion one that is currently triggered randomly when you didn't yet impose a ton of culture in a city).
I also like the idea of tieing revolutions to a technology. But also other conditions. In the case of Rome, I could really see this working well: Instead of barbarian Visigoths appearing, and instead of 1-3 turns of anarchy, I could imagine "The Province of Hispania rises against the Empire" as a one-time event. Of course, this would need to be scripted after the 1st UHV goal... etc. I see a lot of work in creating the correct potential triggers. So I'll accept this is all a daydream.
There is also the overexpansion mechanic with a collapse to the core. I rarely see it working in my games (including my own civs): civilizations last until they collapse totally. A few times I observe a single city splitting off, but a collapse to core is rare.
And yes, this proposed revolution system looks much more disruptive than the current system, so there should be significant rewards for overcoming the trouble. Golden age, XP for troops, a free GP, a free National Wonder in the capital...
I also like the idea of tieing revolutions to a technology. But also other conditions. In the case of Rome, I could really see this working well: Instead of barbarian Visigoths appearing, and instead of 1-3 turns of anarchy, I could imagine "The Province of Hispania rises against the Empire" as a one-time event. Of course, this would need to be scripted after the 1st UHV goal... etc. I see a lot of work in creating the correct potential triggers. So I'll accept this is all a daydream.
There is also the overexpansion mechanic with a collapse to the core. I rarely see it working in my games (including my own civs): civilizations last until they collapse totally. A few times I observe a single city splitting off, but a collapse to core is rare.
There are many other examples. Civil Wars were had in 17th century England, in 5th century BCE Greece, in 1st century BCE Rome (but also in 2nd and 3rd AD Rome), multiple times in China. The Mongol Khanates split into several empires. For the very early nations and everyone with a puzzle (Egypt, Babylonia, Harappa, Polynesia...) , the uneasy times could be set after the designated best-by date... etc.
And yes, this proposed revolution system looks much more disruptive than the current system, so there should be significant rewards for overcoming the trouble. Golden age, XP for troops, a free GP, a free National Wonder in the capital...
banzay13
Prince
Planting forest with Public Welfare is very good ide. It is very strange that a folk hero can plant an entire forest of apple trees and an entire empire cannot plant even one tree.
In one game I had three neighboring forested tiles, where I built a natural reservoir, with the hope of growing a forest on the fourth neighboring empty tileset. After 120 turns (epic speed) nothing grew.
In one game I had three neighboring forested tiles, where I built a natural reservoir, with the hope of growing a forest on the fourth neighboring empty tileset. After 120 turns (epic speed) nothing grew.
It's very difficult especially when AI tends to chop down any trees they can find. I think either Public Welfare or Ecology tech could allow Laborers to build Nature Preserves even in tiles that didn't have trees (the trees would be planted with the Preserve improvement). Imo it would of course take more turns to build than just the Preserve improvement on a tile that does have trees.
Glorfindel of Gondolin
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2023
- Messages
- 62
Hello, I would like to supplement my mycenaean Lion gate wonder offer that I made in the wonder thread, and suggest a new building: mycenaean tholos tomb. (It can also be a wonder).
These are one of the most impressive marvels the mycenaeans ever built, a hallow non pillars round spherical hall, made of huge stones, and using Geometrical shapes to keep it standing, a feat that still stands today.
The huge hall would have had collapsed immediately, if they didnt cover it with a hill, they built a hill to cover it, in order to sustain constant pressure on the entire stracture. In the city of mycenaea are almost perfectly presserved tholos's, one of which was thought to be the tomb of Agamemnon, the mythological king of the ancient Greeks (probably mycenaea), who according to Homer was the one who sieged the city of Troy.
In my opinion it would be a great addition to DOC, if it could be somehow added as a greek specific building, or something of the sort, but maybe limited to the ancient era.
Could replace a monument.
Effect: Small bonuses to great engineer
, +1/2
culture, maybe + 10% 
.
Technology: Mythology, As it is connected to Homer and ancient literature.
These are one of the most impressive marvels the mycenaeans ever built, a hallow non pillars round spherical hall, made of huge stones, and using Geometrical shapes to keep it standing, a feat that still stands today.
The huge hall would have had collapsed immediately, if they didnt cover it with a hill, they built a hill to cover it, in order to sustain constant pressure on the entire stracture. In the city of mycenaea are almost perfectly presserved tholos's, one of which was thought to be the tomb of Agamemnon, the mythological king of the ancient Greeks (probably mycenaea), who according to Homer was the one who sieged the city of Troy.
In my opinion it would be a great addition to DOC, if it could be somehow added as a greek specific building, or something of the sort, but maybe limited to the ancient era.
Could replace a monument.
Effect: Small bonuses to great engineer
, +1/2 culture, maybe + 10% .Technology: Mythology, As it is connected to Homer and ancient literature.
SultanRedSnake
Warlord
May I humbly ask for an alert when contact is *lost* with a civ please?
Dracosolon
King
Extremely unimportant but would it be possible to rearrange the Civilopedia index for leaders so that they're ordered by their civ rather than just their name (similarly to how the civics are ordered by category)? I think that'd look neater and easier for searching all leaders a civ can have.
Dracosolon
King
On the Pedia page it's not shown (the page is already crowded with information so it should probably remain that way) and the start menu screen doesn't show conditional leaders.
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