Suggestions and Requests

[Enyavar]

Yes, I like the idea of adding suspense to revolutions: So, if a civilization changes the government, there might be a chance of shedding cities, or troops rebelling (especially outdated troops). In case that the civilization in question currently rules over another one's territories, there could be a flip-back (like the rebellion one that is currently triggered randomly when you didn't yet impose a ton of culture in a city).

I also like the idea of tieing revolutions to a technology. But also other conditions. In the case of Rome, I could really see this working well: Instead of barbarian Visigoths appearing, and instead of 1-3 turns of anarchy, I could imagine "The Province of Hispania rises against the Empire" as a one-time event. Of course, this would need to be scripted after the 1st UHV goal... etc. I see a lot of work in creating the correct potential triggers. So I'll accept this is all a daydream.

There is also the overexpansion mechanic with a collapse to the core. I rarely see it working in my games (including my own civs): civilizations last until they collapse totally. A few times I observe a single city splitting off, but a collapse to core is rare.

[...]times of changes lead to contestation and conflict, represented by your civ being unable to do anything (because they're too busy dealing with these troubles, or because the basic functions of government are suspended due to political chaos).

The idea would be to accentuate this thematic link by having a sort of super anarchy mechanism, representing a single moment of great trouble in a civ's history. It would work like this:
- One per civ (at least for the ones that lasted long enough - presumably Harappa shouldn't have some of its precious turns wasted on this),
- Triggered by a specific tech, different for each civ, to ensure a very roughly historical time period,
- When triggered, the player is invited to change their civics, religion, or both (these were typically periods of great change and you might as well put these idle turns to good use),
- A fixed length of several turns, longer than usual anarchy, with your changed civics having no impact on that length.

Possible effects:
- Randomly destroyed improvements and/or buildings, with the presence of military units reducing or even cancelling those odds,
- Great General points and XP for your units (maybe with some lost health even?),
- At the conclusion of the turns of anarchy, a free Great Person, its type depending on the civ.

As I said it's not that serious of an idea, being somewhat clunky or maybe annoying to experience, more of a reflection on how such periods could be represented with a relatively light touch.

There could be an event, when your civ is unstable, that would split your civilization in two.
Human players could choose one side and then play with it.

Say this because there are many examples amongst Doc civs : Germany, Korea, USA, Austria... And even Russia, between the red and the white.

There could even be another event when your civ is one again...

There are many other examples. Civil Wars were had in 17th century England, in 5th century BCE Greece, in 1st century BCE Rome (but also in 2nd and 3rd AD Rome), multiple times in China. The Mongol Khanates split into several empires. For the very early nations and everyone with a puzzle (Egypt, Babylonia, Harappa, Polynesia...) , the uneasy times could be set after the designated best-by date... etc.

And yes, this proposed revolution system looks much more disruptive than the current system, so there should be significant rewards for overcoming the trouble. Golden age, XP for troops, a free GP, a free National Wonder in the capital...

 

[banzay13]

Planting forest with Public Welfare is very good ide. It is very strange that a folk hero can plant an entire forest of apple trees and an entire empire cannot plant even one tree.
In one game I had three neighboring forested tiles, where I built a natural reservoir, with the hope of growing a forest on the fourth neighboring empty tileset. After 120 turns (epic speed) nothing grew.

 

[LukeAtmey]

Planting forest with Public Welfare is very good ide. It is very strange that a folk hero can plant an entire forest of apple trees and an entire empire cannot plant even one tree.
In one game I had three neighboring forested tiles, where I built a natural reservoir, with the hope of growing a forest on the fourth neighboring empty tileset. After 120 turns (epic speed) nothing grew.

It's very difficult especially when AI tends to chop down any trees they can find. I think either Public Welfare or Ecology tech could allow Laborers to build Nature Preserves even in tiles that didn't have trees (the trees would be planted with the Preserve improvement). Imo it would of course take more turns to build than just the Preserve improvement on a tile that does have trees.

 

[Glorfindel of Gondolin]

Hello, I would like to supplement my mycenaean Lion gate wonder offer that I made in the wonder thread, and suggest a new building: mycenaean tholos tomb. (It can also be a wonder).
These are one of the most impressive marvels the mycenaeans ever built, a hallow non pillars round spherical hall, made of huge stones, and using Geometrical shapes to keep it standing, a feat that still stands today.
The huge hall would have had collapsed immediately, if they didnt cover it with a hill, they built a hill to cover it, in order to sustain constant pressure on the entire stracture. In the city of mycenaea are almost perfectly presserved tholos's, one of which was thought to be the tomb of Agamemnon, the mythological king of the ancient Greeks (probably mycenaea), who according to Homer was the one who sieged the city of Troy.
In my opinion it would be a great addition to DOC, if it could be somehow added as a greek specific building, or something of the sort, but maybe limited to the ancient era.
Could replace a monument.
Effect: Small bonuses to great engineer , +1/2 culture, maybe + 10% .
Technology: Mythology, As it is connected to Homer and ancient literature.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

May I humbly ask for an alert when contact is *lost* with a civ please?

 

[Dracosolon]

Extremely unimportant but would it be possible to rearrange the Civilopedia index for leaders so that they're ordered by their civ rather than just their name (similarly to how the civics are ordered by category)? I think that'd look neater and easier for searching all leaders a civ can have.

 

[Leoreth]

Isn't it better to go to the civ for that?

 

[Dracosolon]

On the Pedia page it's not shown (the page is already crowded with information so it should probably remain that way) and the start menu screen doesn't show conditional leaders.

 

[Dracosolon]

Suggestion for the eventual civ modifications that might follow the big map:

-Make War Elephants require the presence of either Hinduism, Buddhism or Zoroastrianism in the city (not as state religion) to prevent civs with access to the African variant from building them.
-Reintroduce the Phoenician UU Atlas Elephant: Available at Contract, no religious requirement, reduced strength but a bonus against Melee units. Get rid of the lackluster Sacred Band UU.

 

[Steb]

Suggestion for the eventual civ modifications that might follow the big map:

-Make War Elephants require the presence of either Hinduism, Buddhism or Zoroastrianism in the city (not as state religion) to prevent civs with access to the African variant from building them.
-Reintroduce the Phoenician UU Atlas Elephant: Available at Contract, no religious requirement, reduced strength but a bonus against Melee units. Get rid of the lackluster Sacred Band UU.

That seems convoluted; what are you trying to achieve exactly? While it's true that Asian elephants are easier to tame than African elephants, and were accordingly much more common in warfare, there's plenty of evidence of elephant use by North African polities beyond Carthage, including Egypt and Nubia, and Numidia. Also Rome.

Some of the elephants used by those countries were probably Asian (cf. Hannibal's favorite elephant, called "The Syrian") and acquired through trade, but if anything that means that limiting by religion would inaccurately prevent Mediterranean civilizations from doing that kind of trade. If we truly want to prevent African elephants from being used to make war elephants, the only correct way would be to use the existing resource mechanics and split the ivory resource in two, or make the requirement dependent on the Asian elephant resource variant. But I don't think any of that would be a useful addition.

 

[WhiteEyes]

Can each civ have more than 3 city name languages in the CityNameManager?

I suggest adding Mongolian city names to the Turks, maybe at a higher priority than Arabic. That would fill up some Central Asian and Eurasian city names that the Turk lacks.

and why the Turks doesn't have advanced start?

 

[NerfCothons]

The final era music tracks are similar to one another and are generally minor keys and to some degree discordant. In some of the games I play well into the late eras and will sometimes spend days listening to the same dour music to the point that it has become my practice to disable the music not long after entering the modern music era (I forget exactly which one it is). What if in the final eras rather than having exclusively the modern music selection music from other eras is mixed in. Certainly in a modern setting more people are listening to Beethoven's 6th than are listening to any of the songs on the future music list, so it's not like it wouldn't feel appropriate. Maybe even mix in some of the civ specific songs just so we can listen to more than the first 10 seconds of those songs.

 

[Matara]

These are minimalism musics. Their main idea is to repeat the same motif again and again to push the music forward, without any consideration of musical harmony practiced by classical musicians.

 

[Steb]

The final era music tracks are similar to one another and are generally minor keys and to some degree discordant. In some of the games I play well into the late eras and will sometimes spend days listening to the same dour music to the point that it has become my practice to disable the music not long after entering the modern music era (I forget exactly which one it is). What if in the final eras rather than having exclusively the modern music selection music from other eras is mixed in. Certainly in a modern setting more people are listening to Beethoven's 6th than are listening to any of the songs on the future music list, so it's not like it wouldn't feel appropriate. Maybe even mix in some of the civ specific songs just so we can listen to more than the first 10 seconds of those songs.

There's an old thread I made where we discussed the possibility of changing the Global Era soundtrack to early 20th century classical music (e.g. Debussy, Ravel, etc.), and keep John Adam's minimalist music only for the Digital Era. I still think that's a good idea, though it never got near the point of being implemented.

I think making a mix of all eras would be kinda bad because it would reduce the aesthetic differences between the eras, which play a big role in giving the game a sense of progression.

 

[Cypriot]

I think making a mix of all eras would be kinda bad because it would reduce the aesthetic differences between the eras, which play a big role in giving the game a sense of progression.

Aesthetic-smesthetic. When you rich final era the soundtrack stucks and cannot ever be changed. So what sense of progress are you talking about? And that's kinda depressing, because I don't like final era's soundtrack and the tracks which I love have left in the previous eras forever. And I can theoretically continue the game for a while after I reached final era, for world conquest, for example. So I like idea of mix of all eras. But ideal solution would be in-game player like in Europa Universalis 4, where you can turn on any track you want at any moment or permanently exclude tracks you don't like. But that would be quite hard to program, I think, so I'm for the mix.

 

[Steb]

Aesthetic-smesthetic. When you rich final era the soundtrack stucks and cannot ever be changed. So what sense of progress are you talking about? And that's kinda depressing, because I don't like final era's soundtrack and the tracks which I love have left in the previous eras forever. And I can theoretically continue the game for a while after I reached final era, for world conquest, for example. So I like idea of mix of all eras. But ideal solution would be in-game player like in Europa Universalis 4, where you can turn on any track you want at any moment or permanently exclude tracks you don't like. But that would be quite hard to program, I think, so I'm for the mix.

The problem of the John Adams soundtrack being too present is exactly what I wanted to solve with the Global Era / early 20th c. music suggestion. I do, however, like the John Adams tracks, and think they're great at giving a sense of acceleration, of futurism, etc. So I have a strong preference for not altering the last era's soundtrack, although I do think it should be restricted only to the very late game. If you want to hear some Beethoven at that point, just turn the soundtrack off and put up some Beethoven on Spotify.

On the other hand, maybe a full mix of all eras would be cool after you've won the game.

 

[Dracosolon]

Youtube playlists for the various civs as they progress through the eras

 

[Enyavar]

Youtube playlists for the various civs as they progress through the eras

Almost that.
I do think that players who stuck with the Arabs, Turks and Chinese into the modern era, should be allowed to listen to modern Arab, Turkish and Chinese pop music. I'm pretty certain that there's free-to-use music for every civilization, or at least for each circle of civilizations (far-eastern, near-eastern, latin american...). The pieces need to fulfill a few criteria, I'm not claiming that my following list is complete.

• copyright-free
• instrumental
• mood-music (nice to listen to in loops; no huge variations in volume; ...)

 

[Lakoff]

For the 1.17. version, it seems that the Worldbuilder(Platybuilder) doesn't provide the tool for adjusting Core Area. Where has the button gone?

 

[Lzz]

Yeah, I miss it too. Also it seems we can no longer see the core-periphery map for religions either (which was very useful for some UHV runs like Poland and Korea), too bad.