Suggestions and Requests

[Hickman888]

On another topic, I've been trying to become more acquainted with the Hotkeys offered in this game. A couple of comments:

• The Hotkey "F" is used both for "Sleep" as well as "Create Fishing Boats"
• "CTRL+A" says it forces all units with queued orders to move, to move. However, it brings up the Observer Mode menu
• I'd like to request a Hotkey for "Toggle display of all enemy units". I like to play with this button on, as it allows me to quickly see enemy threats anywhere on the map. At the moment, "ALT+U" just brings up "enemy units inside my territory", and if I want to change it to "all enemy units", I need to zoom out to Globe View, and then manually select "Enemy Military"

Spoiler Hotkey & Manual Selection :

Once activated, if I turn it off for any reason, like toggling the resource display, I will need to reselect the button and manually select the option again in Globe View.

 

[xerxess]

After trying 7 or 8 times to achieve Malaysia's UHV I just gave up. Wanted to share my experience and the things that could change to make it more doable and fun. Playing on regent/normal.

The good things

First, I want to start by listing the things I liked. The goals are diversified enough and feels like a mix between India (religion and infraestructure) and Dravidia (commerce) with the focus being on diplomacy. There sure is potential for a fun experience. I really liked whipping my way to things with cities that have next to no production but a lot of room to grow.

UP, UB and UU

The UP is great. One of the best from the entire mod even. The UB is good. Both have great synergy with UHV1. I never found much use of the UU though. It seems to be an anti pirate unit but no pirate ships spawned in my territory. Heavy galleys and war galleys were more than enough to do the only two things I needed from a fleet: sinking Java's navy and mantaining contact with other civs.

The problem with UHV2

UHV2 requires you to aquire 14 different happiness resources by 1300 AD. There are six in your historical territory: ivory, gold, spices, dye, incense and gems. Pearls are nearby in Indonesia and the Philippines and there's also silver in Australia. So that's eight. You need another six from trade with the AI. Here's where my biggest issue begins. For that to happen you need:

• Cotton: Dravidia to stay alive (happened in every single one of my games) or India to stay alive (never happened).
• Jade, silk and tea: China to stay alive and survive the Mongols (never happened) or Mongolia to conquer most of China (never happened). For jade Burma can also control two of them and be willing to trade it (never happened).
• Wines: Persia to stay alive (never happened) or the Turks to conquer most of the Middle East and survive the Mongols (happened once) or the Mongols to conquer most of the Middle East (happened twice) or Byzantium to stay alive and still hold Khalpe (happened once).
• With opium is the same as wines with the added possibilty of Burma controling two and be willing to trade it (happened once).

Other than that, I can only think of teching fast enough to conquer the Aztecs or the Incas for Cocoa or conquering the Chinese and Middle East cities yourself. But you only have war elephants and trebuchets against crossbow and walls.

The problem ends up being that a succesful game relies too much on something out of your control. I don't mind that certain goals require some luck. But at least there is something I'm doing. Here I'm just sitting praying that the AI will conquer what I need them to. Is not that fun, specially when you are nailing a great game and everything goes to waste because Mongols refuse to conquer cities that have two crossbows.

The problem with UHV3

UHV3 requires you to build a Hindu Kshetra, a Buddist Chaitya and a Islamic Grande Mosque in a Malayan city by 1500 AD. It took me a while to realise this means you need the three buildings in a single city. But it appeares to be bugged, as it only tracks Singapura or whatever city you have first settled in West Malaysia. Or is it intended to build them in Singapura? Also, it says by, but the goal is only accomplished in 1500 AD, no matter if you manage to do it before.

I don't mind the bugs as I guess those will be solved eventually. My problem with this goal is that having to build the Kshetra, the Chaitya and the Grande Mosque in the same city adds a layer of difficulty that seems a bit off. Specially considering how late Islam spreads and how luck-dependant is which city gets it first. Sometimes is a city with barely no production that delays too much building a missionary and you are just too late. Singapura isn't your most productive city either.

Suggestions

I think the civ is well thought and has the potential to deliver a fun experience. Maybe some other players have succesfuly done the UHV without much issue. But I still think there's room for improvement. My suggestions would be:

• Make some pirate ships spawn in your territory. It would make the UU useful and would give you a reason to keep a fleet after you conquered Java and finished UHV2.
• Reduce the number of required resources in UHV2 from 14 to 12. 1300 AD is just a really transitional moment for China, India and the Middle East in the mod. I think 12 resources is doable and makes the dependancy on how the world turns out a little more bearable. Or maybe we just need a little more balancing so Mongolia and the Turks can succesfuly conquer what they are supposed to conquer.
• Rephrase UHV3 to Build a Hindu Kshetra, a Buddist Chaitya and a Islamic Mosque in a single city in West Malaysia by 1500 AD so it is clear what you need to do. I'd still prefer it if you just had to build them anywhere.

I forgot to add that since UHV1 and UHV3 finish the same turn is difficult to use a golden age momentum to your advantage. I know that both are by goals, so you can finish them before 1500 AD. Usually UHV1 can be done several turns before the deadline. But still, I'd suggest either delaying UHV3 or making UHV1 finish some turns before (maybe with a reduced ammount of commerce), so that you can actually take advantage of your golden age.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Wine can be hard, but is frequently doable.

Linux players be like

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

On another topic, I've been trying to become more acquainted with the Hotkeys offered in this game. A couple of comments:

• The Hotkey "F" is used both for "Sleep" as well as "Create Fishing Boats"
• "CTRL+A" says it forces all units with queued orders to move, to move. However, it brings up the Observer Mode menu
• I'd like to request a Hotkey for "Toggle display of all enemy units". I like to play with this button on, as it allows me to quickly see enemy threats anywhere on the map. At the moment, "ALT+U" just brings up "enemy units inside my territory", and if I want to change it to "all enemy units", I need to zoom out to Globe View, and then manually select "Enemy Military"

Spoiler Hotkey & Manual Selection :

View attachment 724025View attachment 724027

Once activated, if I turn it off for any reason, like toggling the resource display, I will need to reselect the button and manually select the option again in Globe View.

Seconding the last suggestion with all my heart. In 90% of cases when I use this button I need it to get an overview of ALL enemy military, not just that currently inside my territory. Imo displaying Enemy Military rather than Enemies in Territory should be the default option for the button and thus also the already existing Alt+U shortcut.

 

[f1rpo]

For me, making All Military the default has indeed made Alt+U much more usable (albeit in a mod that is closer to BtS). All Military is more broadly useful than Enemy Military, I think. Unfortunately, the default isn't super easy to change because it's apparently hardcoded in the EXE as a particular enumerator (the one with int value 2) in the GlobeLayerUnitOptionTypes enum. This can be worked around by creating a placeholder in that spot, [...].

Spoiler :

hiding it through CvMainInterface.updateGlobeviewButtons and letting it behave like All Military (or All Enemies) through a change at the start of CvPlayer::getUnitLayerColors – like in this messy old Git commit (though testing for GLOBE_LAYER_UNIT_DUMMY does work contrary to my comment in there) plus the bUnitLayer variable in CvMainInterface from this equally messy commit.

Edit: Upon revisiting this problem, I guess simply swapping two enumerators is sufficient. Seems to work in a test. Almost super easy to change then.

If a new UI control (button or key combination) were added, plot indicators for units could coexist with whichever layer is active if one shows the unit indicators only for a few seconds through CvPlayer::addMessage, i.e. as part of an on-screen announcement akin to the one from a tech revealing a bonus resource. Not having to toggle the indicators off again might even be convenient. I got this idea recently from Platy's Natural Wonders mod component (where Ctrl+F briefly highlights all plots with such wonders). Whereas, if plot indicators are shown through CvPlayer::getGlobeLayerColors, there can be at most one indicator per plot. (But I also think that just changing the default mode is the best approach in this case.)

 

[IrishDragon]

Minor suggestion somewhat inspired by current events. The Norse have gotten pretty good at founding Greenland but often collapse. Given the conjecture around Greenland not being able to survive on its own, and it's historical abondonment and then later resettlement, raze the city if it's been indie for ~10 turns if nobody has taken it. Have an event message about people abandoning the settlement. This could be the case up until the global era

Without in any way wanting to support the rhetoric coming out of the White House at the moment, it might also be worth adding it to Americas area of interest given their repeated attempts to acquire it and occupation during WW2, plus their military presence there ever since.

 

[banzay13]

Minor suggestion somewhat inspired by current events. The Norse have gotten pretty good at founding Greenland but often collapse. Given the conjecture around Greenland not being able to survive on its own, and it's historical abondonment and then later resettlement, raze the city if it's been indie for ~10 turns if nobody has taken it. Have an event message about people abandoning the settlement. This could be the case up until the global era

Without in any way wanting to support the rhetoric coming out of the White House at the moment, it might also be worth adding it to Americas area of interest given their repeated attempts to acquire it and occupation during WW2, plus their military presence there ever since.

Inuits dislike this post

 

[IrishDragon]

Inuits dislike this post

Amend the message to something like "Unable to endure the harsh environment without support from their homeland, Norse/X settlers have been forced to abandon their outpost in Greenland" or more simply "Norse settlements in Greenland have collapsed" so the focus is on the colonists and maintaining conventional civ-style towns/cities

 

[IrishDragon]

Add an event that can be triggered by a city being bombed, along the lines of "A famous artist has depicted the horrors of the bombing of [city]", based on Picasso's Guernica.
It could give a one-off culture boost.

Or if there are options, a choice between a culture boost, a gold boost with wording about raising international support based on the Guernica painting being used for fundraising, and perhaps some kind of a diplomatic option. Maybe the aggressor gets another +1 added "you declared war on our friend" penalty for civs friendly with the target. Or increased war weariness. Would probably make more sense if it's limited to weaker civs or the weaker power in the war.

 

[Sovietof17]

Can you also take a look at the Kushan UHV#3? It's simply just not possible with the Turk spawn. Your empire goes into collapse because you were forced to hand over like 6 or 7 silk road cities to them about 2 or 3 turns after they spawn. I killed their armies and took 2 cities back but it didn't matter.

 

[banzay13]

Can you also take a look at the Kushan UHV#3? It's simply just not possible with the Turk spawn. Your empire goes into collapse because you were forced to hand over like 6 or 7 silk road cities to them about 2 or 3 turns after they spawn. I killed their armies and took 2 cities back but it didn't matter.

It's better win before Turic spawn. While in GA better build culture. And I was staying Hindu, to build Iron Pillar (and Buddhism spread slowly in your cites (and sometimes disappear, so you can spread it twice in one city)

 

[Dracosolon]

IIRC a while ago there was some discussion of giving a civ another way of producing the three media resources (Hit Movies, Singles and Football Events) besides building the relevant wonders, to represent stuff like non-Hollywood cinema, etc.

I think a National Wonder could do the trick, because it's not reproducible and demands a significant investment so it doesn't trivialize the existing wonders too much. Intuitively it seems a National Broadcaster (available, naturally, at Television) would make the most sense.

But National Wonders are also supposed to fit "tall" playstyle so it should also benefit the city. Maybe it could provide some synergy with the planned rework of the We Love The King Day's mechanism, such as facilitating it, triggering it on completion, or increasing its benefits.

 

[Hickman888]

IIRC a while ago there was some discussion of giving a civ another way of producing the three media resources (Hit Movies, Singles and Football Events) besides building the relevant wonders, to represent stuff like non-Hollywood cinema, etc.

I think a National Wonder could do the trick, because it's not reproducible and demands a significant investment so it doesn't trivialize the existing wonders too much. Intuitively it seems a National Broadcaster (available, naturally, at Television) would make the most sense.

But National Wonders are also supposed to fit "tall" playstyle so it should also benefit the city. Maybe it could provide some synergy with the planned rework of the We Love The King Day's mechanism, such as facilitating it, triggering it on completion, or increasing its benefits.

I was playing vanilla BTS not too long ago, and I actually got a random event that gave me a free copy of Hit Movies. I don't remember ever seeing that event before, or even if it's still an event in this mod.

What if we made it a quest? Something like “Build 7 Movie Theaters in 20 turns to get a free copy of Hit Movies”. I’d like to see quests play a bigger role in this mod, I think there’s a lot of untapped potential with them.

 

[Dracosolon]

You wouldn't download a Hit Movie

 

[banzay13]

I was playing vanilla BTS not too long ago, and I actually got a random event that gave me a free copy of Hit Movies. I don't remember ever seeing that event before, or even if it's still an event in this mod.

What if we made it a quest? Something like “Build 7 Movie Theaters in 20 turns to get a free copy of Hit Movies”. I’d like to see quests play a bigger role in this mod, I think there’s a lot of untapped potential with them.

Don't remember, was it in 1.17 or 1.18, but this event still here

 

[1SDANi]

I was playing vanilla BTS not too long ago, and I actually got a random event that gave me a free copy of Hit Movies. I don't remember ever seeing that event before, or even if it's still an event in this mod.

What if we made it a quest? Something like “Build 7 Movie Theaters in 20 turns to get a free copy of Hit Movies”. I’d like to see quests play a bigger role in this mod, I think there’s a lot of untapped potential with them.

I've always liked the idea of tying "random events" to a golden age-esque meter that fills with global culture production, with stability-based events that can either ease or worsen your situation depending on your playstyle and what option you choose, like a seccession crisis while running Monarchy at low stability where you can either enter anarchy to maintain your territories, release colonies to civs for which they won't be colonies for a decaying stability boost, or lose all non-core cities to barbarians in exchange for military units for each city lost. The kind of stuff that's too specific to be mechanics of their own, but also too common and impactful in history to be completely left without representation, no matter how abstract. I especially love how it could also be used to serve as a reward to reward having high stability and in general buff the culture slider in a way that isn't just some generic stat increase.

 

[Hickman888]

I've always liked the idea of typing "random events" to a golden age-esque meter that fills with global culture production, with stability-based events that can either ease or worsen your situation depending on your playstyle and what option you choose, like a seccession crisis while running Monarchy at low stability where you can either enter anarchy to maintain your territories, release colonies to civs for which they won't be colonies for a decaying stability boost, or lose all non-core cities to barbarians in exchange for military units for each city lost. The kind of stuff that's too specific to be mechanics of their own, but also too common and impactful in history to be completely left without representation, no matter how abstract. I especially love how it could also be used to serve as a reward to reward having high stability and in general buff the culture slider in a way that isn't just some generic stat increase.

I'm all for a global culture production meter that fills and rewards you at the end, possibly with a random event like you said; Not sure that tying those negative events into that would make for good gameplay though. You want to reward the player for filling that meter, not give them a potentially game-ending event. But those are the kind of events that I would love to see when your empire is currently collapsing, to immediately gain a bit of stability, at the cost of losing parts of your empire, or going into revolution for 5 turns or something.

 

[1SDANi]

I'm all for a global culture production meter that fills and rewards you at the end, possibly with a random event like you said; Not sure that tying those negative events into that would make for good gameplay though. You want to reward the player for filling that meter, not give them a potentially game-ending event. But those are the kind of events that I would love to see when your empire is currently collapsing, to immediately gain a bit of stability, at the cost of losing parts of your empire, or going into revolution for 5 turns or something.

Yeah, the key for negative events would def be balancing the stability boost with the tradeoffs and how low your stability has to be for the event to proc

 

[SOVNARKOM]

Since we now have Celtic leaders in the island era, I believe Brenus' Catholic religion preference can be removed. Additionally, considering his deeds, I think Hegemony as Brenus preferred civic may be better than Manorialism.

 

[Dracosolon]

Does anyone bother settling remote island colonies? I feel like their poor yield (which typically reflects how small their populations are) combined with maintenance means they're too often not worth it. Islands are already boosted by how resources work on small landmasses, but an additional possibility could be to have reduced maintenance (based on either landmass size, or number of water tiles in radius).