Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Since South/Latin America has come up, has anyone successfully completed a UHV on the new map/civcs for any of the Latin American civs yet? From my USA / Prussia / Japan playthroughs I don't see how the tech situation could allow for Brazil and Argentina to meet their UHVs really: by spawn, the Euros are too advanced and poach up all the wonders / crush you in wars.
Argentina's geographic position in particular feels nerfed versus the old map, based only on when I loaded them up once without playing it through, and Brazil I never managed to surmount even on the old map. Colombia's starting stacks looked promising but the puny core scared me off. And Mexico I believe someone has actually cleared? I am curious on others' experiences since the region has a lot of potential but I don't see discourse on it too much.
Argentina's geographic position in particular feels nerfed versus the old map, based only on when I loaded them up once without playing it through, and Brazil I never managed to surmount even on the old map. Colombia's starting stacks looked promising but the puny core scared me off. And Mexico I believe someone has actually cleared? I am curious on others' experiences since the region has a lot of potential but I don't see discourse on it too much.
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
I had to cheat via WB to achieve Brazil's UHV2. Britain, Germany, Japan—anyone could snatch it from me. To maximize my starting situation as Brazil, I continued a Portugal run where I won the UHV and developed Brazil pretty hard. (Side effect: Portugal was also snowballing a la England once I switched.)
As for Colombia, I am also discouraged by its UHV2. I think only Andes (UHV1) should be fine. Can we perhaps have the goal be defensive pacts with all South American civs instead of conquering them?
As for Colombia, I am also discouraged by its UHV2. I think only Andes (UHV1) should be fine. Can we perhaps have the goal be defensive pacts with all South American civs instead of conquering them?
AOS9001
Slightly over 9000.
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I never understood Colombia's control all of South America goal. Is it a reference to some Bolivar aspiration that I don't know about?
Lol no, by the time Brazil spawns, England/France/Netherlands and maybe Spain/Germany/Japan are two or three tech rows ahead of you. I don't think it's actually possible right now. More tech balancing is needed for the late game, which is going to be much more annoying due to how long turns take starting around 1700...
SultanRedSnake
Prince
I dont know why but the achievement would be called "South 'Murrica"
Derdan
Warlord
Bolivia's is quite easy on marathon at least. Just run Despotism and whip all your non-core cities to death. It's a shame your core is so small though. Bogota and Maracaibo deserve more food in my opinion.
Tigranes
Armenian
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Between June 22 and July 15, 1826, Simón Bolívar called the recent Spanish-American republics to a meeting in Panama. It was a chimera that was called the Amphictyonic Congress.
Bolivar had the vision of creating a confederation of Latin American peoples, from Mexico to Chile and Argentina, at this meeting. Representatives from Colombia, made up of Panama, Venezuela, Ecuador, and Colombia; Mexico, Peru and the Federal Republic of Central America were present.
For Simón Bolívar, the Congress was a dream since 1815 when he said from Jamaica: “How beautiful it would be if the Isthmus of Panama were for us what the Isthmus of Corinth was for the Greeks… Hopefully, one day we will have the fortune of installing an august Congress there…”. From this perspective, Bolivar longed for understanding among all countries and sought the unity of the continent. He also saw the potential of a water canal through Panama.
The agreements to which Bolivar aspired in the Congress did not reach a happy conclusion for various reasons: the youth of the new republics, the absence of economic solidity, and border problems.
Krieger-FS
Warlord
Complementing Tigrane's explanation and considering the UHV, Temüjin VIII's suggestion of including defensive pacts has some merit, although allowing vassalization may be a stronger case. I would also add Mexico and Central America but maybe remove Brazil from the second UHV (control South America in 1920). While Brazil was invited to the Congress of Panama, it was a notable opponent of any agreement and represented Bolívar's ideological opposite back then — a centralist and monarchical state ruled by an European dynasty.
ozqar
King
I would just say that the goal should be to unify by whatever mean, including vassalization, but ideally there could be a diplomatic option akin to accepting federalization, (which us more than what a defensive pact covers). AFAIK the goal of that congress was for the different newly independent republics to voluntarily join a union; it wasn't Bolivar's dream to conquer and subject the people he had been fighting to liberate. Moving the capital to Panama City could be a nice second condition to the UHV. I'd say that allowing more time to achieving this diplomatic victory would be reasonable as this was an aspirational UHV.
a pen-dragon
Warlord
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Maybe something like BtS permanent alliances?
1SDANi
The Fading Memory
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I always loved the idea of a Union pact that shares territory, economy, and population for the purposes of victories and stability, makes trade count as domestic and is what civs start as when released, would be a fun excuse to add Lithuania.
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Hickman888
Prince
I'm definitely in favor of adding in more diplomatic actions like that. The mechanics of 4X games really lends itself to war and conquest being the best way to achieve most goals (which in a game designed to simulate human history, fair enough, there's plenty of that), but I think a certain amount of counterbalance is needed to allow diplomatic actions to also be attractive options. But we would need to brainstorm some ideas on how that could work, or what it would look like.
I have never understood why Bolivar is seen as this imperialistic war mongering starving for land general by some strategy games. The Panama Congress was an attempt, one of many, at bringing Latin American countries together to face common issues. Of course that failed as all imperial powers were pretty much against it. I agree with ozkar that a more diplomatic goal would be a better representation of this, rather than plain conquering. Bolivar's goal was a federation of independent republics, not remaking the Spanish Empire.
Playing with African nations makes me think that it would be great if worker, slaves and scouts had different models. In the first screenshot the unit in the copper mine is a worker and the other one is a scout, but the difference is impossible to tell unless you really zoom in. In the second one, worker and slave look exactly the same. I know is not a big priority, but it would add some visual clarity.
Derdan
Warlord
Bingo
Didn't understand it first, but I got it with another look at the pictures
Alexius08
Emperor
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Very rarely do I see Poland building the Old Synagogue since Judaism rarely spreads to Poland before someone else (usually France or Spain) builds the wonder. Perhaps we could improve the spread of Judaism to Poland or make Syncretism a requirement for building it to ensure it goes to civs with better tolerance of non-state religions.
SultanRedSnake
Prince
This is a splendid idea on its own, even if it weren't proposed for Poland's sake. Only seems obvious after being proposed, but of course it would make no sense for a typical medieval Catholic monarchy to embark upon such a project (Spain's in-game enthusiasm is the most cursed example). I'm also rather fond of opportunity costs in principal so this has my full support.
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Talking about the Mande, I've seen some really weird Islam holy cities: independent Carthage, turkic Merv and even barbarian Oyat. It can really screw up your playthrough.
Alexius08
Emperor
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Also allowing it for the rare case of civs that converted to Judaism makes sense, although I don't know if implementing such an exemption to the civic requirement is possible at all.
