Suggestions and Requests

[Visard]

The diplomatic value of gifts depend on how long have you known each other.
I don't know the exact formula, but on the first turn 3 gives +1, 5 gives +2, 8 gives +3 and 10 gives +4.
On the second turn values are 5, 10, 15, 20.
So the longer you have known each other more harder it is to please AI.

On normal BTS when you meet a new civ in the start of your game, neither of you don't know currency or alphabet so you cannot gift anything.
But on this mod when you pick any non-ancient civ, you can start immediately gifting gold and trading techs to get the needed diplo modifiers to make the civ pleased which usually leads to open borders.
An additionally you can ask your money back for pleased civs and sometimes get even more if they are weak.
Same result can be achieved by selling techs, like selling meditation for 10/20 to civs which don't have it, it is cheap but it will also get +4, because the extra are counted as gifted .

It is a hard problem to solve.
One solution could be that gifting and trading isn't possible in the first 10? turns.
But it could result for players to turtle 10 turn before finding contacts.
Better solution could be if the calculations can be change so that: TURNS_KNOWN -> max(TURNS_KNOWN, 10) or other integer, maybe 5?.

 

[Leoreth]

Interesting. Will have to locate the exact code, but yeah, it seems as if it has been written with the assumption that contacts are made before you can actually interact diplomatically (although that still raises the question how this is supposed to work for late contacts, e.g. a continents map in BtS).

But I agree, it's probably best to define a minimum number of turns for the formula.

 

[Vectors]

Interesting. Will have to locate the exact code, but yeah, it seems as if it has been written with the assumption that contacts are made before you can actually interact diplomatically (although that still raises the question how this is supposed to work for late contacts, e.g. a continents map in BtS).

But I agree, it's probably best to define a minimum number of turns for the formula.

Caution, the Portuguese UHV needs that to function else you can't win. as you have to rapidly make contact and OB 10 countries.

 

[Leoreth]

In that case I'd rather adjust the Portuguese UHV somehow. If a goal depends on a specific exploit it's probably not that well designed anyway.

 

[Vectors]

In that case I'd rather adjust the Portuguese UHV somehow. If a goal depends on a specific exploit it's probably not that well designed anyway.

You could always revert to the prior goal of largest map

 

[MechatronicJazz]

Would it be possible to make capitulation not trigger defensive pacts? I find that the large wars that start in the industrial era tend to go on without ever really ending. Civs will gradually make peace with each other, but then someone capitulates and it reactivates all the defensive pacts that started the war to begin with.

 

[Panopticon]

Interesting. Will have to locate the exact code, but yeah, it seems as if it has been written with the assumption that contacts are made before you can actually interact diplomatically (although that still raises the question how this is supposed to work for late contacts, e.g. a continents map in BtS).

But I agree, it's probably best to define a minimum number of turns for the formula.

So, bear in mind that this will slow down research further. If human does this with every advanced civ, that is a lot of trade routes for every advanced civ in early game.

 

[Heti123]

Can you do a Phoenician respawn? Mabye as Fakhr El Dine II of Lebanon?

 

[ales_]

Greece and Peru didn't get one, I doubt Lebanon will. One need a leaderhead to add a leader.

 

[ales_]

Nevermind.

 

[DC123456789]

Also, Lebanon is far too small to really be represented at this scale. It would be, what, a quarter of a tile?

 

[need my speed]

Israel then, but, yeah, no.

 

[Vectors]

Have you considered utilizing the event quest mechanics as missions for countries?

 

[Leoreth]

Often, but I never got around to actually doing it.

 

[ezzlar]

I dont like Japans UP. It only works if you are terribly behind in techs.

The UU is cool but it´s obsolete by the time you start your conquering as Japan (unless you Youtien China early on). Japan should have a late game UU. Something for Manchuria conquest or island hopping conquest.

The UB is too late. Why not something that helps with culture? Rice exchange, market with cultural bonus.

 

[Shadow Warlord]

I dont like Japans UP. It only works if you are terribly behind in techs.

The UU is cool but it´s obsolete by the time you start your conquering as Japan (unless you Youtien China early on). Japan should have a late game UU. Something for Manchuria conquest or island hopping conquest.

The UB is too late. Why not something that helps with culture? Rice exchange, market with cultural bonus.

The UP is to help simulate Japan's rapid industrialization after opening it's borders. Combined with the change to UHV 1, i think the strategy is more tailored to turtling on the main island until the culture goal is reached rather than conquering everything ASAP.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

Japan's UP is most useful if you research all or most of an era before moving to next. That way you benefit from the AI beelining plus have all the techs they left behind. I think it's supposed to be most effective while industrializing, but I've found it useful for a free tech or two entering the renaissance as well. You do need to avoid wars as much as possible early on though. In my last game I was working on a pacific rim empire rather than the UHV, but my defensive pact with China dragged me into a war with everyone with more tech than me. Got nothing on entering the industrial. :/

 

[hunam]

Downloaded latest revision circa Sep 1 and played a few games (Polynesia, Harrapans, America, Ethiopia, Babylonia). By and large, really liking this mod, but have a few thoughts/concerns (saves and images can be furnished on request):

Three "concern" suggestions:

* Playing Babylonia on Marathon, by 20th century I'm seeing inflation of 288%. Is this working as intended, or is the inflation needing to be reworked? It's killing Babylon (excess of 600 gold per turn in inflation alone) and I lost any hope of keeping up with the tech race by the 18th century.

* Out of the 6 or so games I played from 3000 BC, I only saw the Apostolic palace built once by the AI. In fact, had to build it once as Ethiopia in the 1500s to try and mitigate the reformation silliness tearing the nation apart (Orthodox Ethiopia with the Apostolic Palace in Aksum ). Suggestion to have the Apostolic Palace autospawn in 1054 like the Temple of Solomon, in Rome if it must be hard-coded to a specific city or in the largest entirely Catholic city if not.

* With the inclusion of the Harrapans, I'd think the Mughal spawn should be conditional on the Harrapans not existing or being unstable/collapsing. Continued Harrapan stability would be a pretty strong bulwark to Muslim migration into India.

Other ideas:
* With the inclusion of the Harrapans, I'd argue that Jainism might deserve a place as one of the religions, given its possible origin from the Indus Valley Civilization. Like the Zoroastrians after 1000 AD, probably shouldn't ever auto-spread. It just strikes as kind of silly to adopt the Indo-Aryan religion when the Indians spawn.

* I'm kind of bothered with the existence of a Protestant holy city, but I haven't yet dug into the code to figure out how to do without that mechanic yet. I'd think instead of having one, each protestant city (if it's the official religion) should simply produce one gold instead. Similarly bothered by protestant monasteries, but not sure of a good workaround for that.

* In a similar vein, the general dearth of protestant wonders bugs me. Perhaps bringing in JS Bach's Cathedral (Thomaskirche) to give them a little flavor?

* In the vein of additional wonders, maybe add the Kerala School of Mathematics unlocked during Education (requiring Hinduism to build; obsolete with Physics?) with extra beakers per specialist/scientists or extra beakers for educational buildings? Given the school's importance in the history of mathematics, it'd be pretty nice to see in the mod.

Anywho, thanks for your time. Like I said, enjoying the mod.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you like the mod.

My answers:
- Harappa isn't intended to exist as an AI civ, and both Harappa and Babylonia are not intended to survive until later in the game, so I don't plan to design or balance around it.
- I intend to diversify religions at some point after 1.13 is released, stuff like Protestantism will be addressed then. I also want to consider adding more religions, including Jainism.
- I know the AP is currently in a bad place, and so is Orthodoxy as a consequence. I want to address that before release still.
- Kerala University sounds like a good idea!

 

[ales_]

both Harappa and Babylonia are intended to survive until later in the game

That's... interesting.