Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
banzay13
Emperor
Byzyntine should never called Byzyntine, unless adopt Catholitism or vassal of catholic civs. If Rome alive - ERE, if not, and they control Constantinopol - Roman Empire.
Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia
banzay13
Emperor
It's germanic (western) invention. Call Roman Empire - Byzantine Empire. They never called themsefl so.Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Hieronymus Wolf, is credited as the first to reference the Eastern Roman Empire with "Byzantinae",[2] which has since spread through western European scholars and gradually replaced the Eastern Roman Empire's own demonym within European academia. This replacement reflects the feud between east and west over the title of Emperor of the Romans, that began with Constantine the Great transferring the capital to Constantinople.[3]
Hieronymus Wolf - Wikipedia
You can make this argument in the talk section of the referenced article.
The Byzantines are not the only civ in this modmod that winds up with a name that the contemporaneous people did not use for themselves. I don't mean to open a rabbit hole since the nomenclature of the Byzantines is a real locus of attention in the historical strategy community, but at least to me this modmod clearly uses the widespread English names for the states. Germany is Germany and not Deutschland, Japan is not Nippon, China is not Zhongguo, etc.
Also, there is already a dynamic name switch for the Byzzies when they reconquer Rome that turns them to the Roman Empire, which I think is sufficient.
Also, there is already a dynamic name switch for the Byzzies when they reconquer Rome that turns them to the Roman Empire, which I think is sufficient.
Third millennium pharaoh: what do you mean OLD kingdom?
banzay13
Emperor
Yeah, I was thinking place this in Dump Ideas first, but Byzantine its not just English name for state.
You know, official history, let's say, not always correct. History write victories
Dracosolon
Emperor
What do you mean "third millenium"?
Old Kingdom of Egypt - Wikipedia
Tao paï paï
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2022
- Messages
- 59
I come to talk about the Turks after a couple of games and the certitude that the 7% UHV seems very very difficult (to not say impossible) as it has been said a lot here on Regent/Normal (on my best try I had 5.3% ), and I have some simple suggestions that should make it a bit more doable and still challenging.
- Take a look at Persia in 870AD (Regent/Normal), 3 turns before the deadline (they collapsed the turn after) : 4 cities on hill with 60% defense, a bunch of crossbow/HS on each one, even with my Oghuz disengage II and cats it takes some time to crush down, and it's difficult to defend behind... Persia is too powerful, and their war with Arabia makes no difference, so I suggest that they should be forced to collapse around 600 AD if the human player is Turk (as they already are in the 600 AD scenario).
- When they finally collapse, cities remain with 2 archers but still 60% defense : the problem is that when they collapse you lose all your expansion zone in Persia, and for some reason in all middle east too ! This bonus zone is absolutly necessary for sparing quickly your conquered cities and produce culture asap + the bombard bonus, I don't know how this system works but it souldn't disappear like this, specially the one in ME.
- In 1.17 there were stacks of 5-6 HA or Oghuz spawning every few turns near your border, making your UP vital for your conqests. I know that now there are more cities with way better prod than there was in 1.17, so you can build Oghuz yourself, but honestly the UP ends almost useless : I don't really know if it's worth to make busy 2-3 Oghuz in the north to catch 1 or 2 HA every 5 turns. To make it useful I had to use it for the HA that spawn in Indian territory or in northern China (the time they arrive in Persia the UHV deadline was here). I suggest to bring back the stacks of barbarians Oghuzs/HA, obviously less big than in 1.17 for the reasons I mentioned previously.
- Take a look at Persia in 870AD (Regent/Normal), 3 turns before the deadline (they collapsed the turn after) : 4 cities on hill with 60% defense, a bunch of crossbow/HS on each one, even with my Oghuz disengage II and cats it takes some time to crush down, and it's difficult to defend behind... Persia is too powerful, and their war with Arabia makes no difference, so I suggest that they should be forced to collapse around 600 AD if the human player is Turk (as they already are in the 600 AD scenario).
Spoiler 1 :
- When they finally collapse, cities remain with 2 archers but still 60% defense : the problem is that when they collapse you lose all your expansion zone in Persia, and for some reason in all middle east too ! This bonus zone is absolutly necessary for sparing quickly your conquered cities and produce culture asap + the bombard bonus, I don't know how this system works but it souldn't disappear like this, specially the one in ME.
- In 1.17 there were stacks of 5-6 HA or Oghuz spawning every few turns near your border, making your UP vital for your conqests. I know that now there are more cities with way better prod than there was in 1.17, so you can build Oghuz yourself, but honestly the UP ends almost useless : I don't really know if it's worth to make busy 2-3 Oghuz in the north to catch 1 or 2 HA every 5 turns. To make it useful I had to use it for the HA that spawn in Indian territory or in northern China (the time they arrive in Persia the UHV deadline was here). I suggest to bring back the stacks of barbarians Oghuzs/HA, obviously less big than in 1.17 for the reasons I mentioned previously.
Last edited:
Zalfos
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2025
- Messages
- 17
I'm not a big fan of forcing a collapse in active play. I feel that if you want a neighbour to break, it should be up to you.
That being said, yes, that 7% UHV feels out of reach. I've only managed in on Heir, by ignoring the Middle East and going to China instead — they have decent cities, they are never very stable, and most importantly : their northern frontier has plenty of Horse Archer spawns to add to your ranks. With those you can then wheel around to get the Persians and the Arabs.
If Persia seems really impossible to crack because they went to Crossbows, another option is to get Politics, train a spy (cut your science, Divans help with Spy power), provoke a revolt in Parsa ("we have Mongols at home") and take it this way — Oghuz can enter territory quickly and stay where they are upon declaring war, allowing for those kind of tactics, but you need to recognize the problem early enough to act. In general I found it a good idea to invest heavily in spies towards Persia, the Turks don't require a lot of Science and they can find partners to trade (Korea, Chola, Tibet, the Khmer even).
I'm all for additional Oghuz spawns to add to your ranks, though. Great idea ; it feels weird having to rely so massively on China instead.
I'll give my own idea for a buff : what about giving the Oghuz access to the Cover and/or Raider promotions ? That would encourage getting a couple of Barracks to start with them, and that would make them much more efficient at getting the job done by piercing the line and quickly grabbing a bunch of cities, without relying so much on Catapults.
That being said, yes, that 7% UHV feels out of reach. I've only managed in on Heir, by ignoring the Middle East and going to China instead — they have decent cities, they are never very stable, and most importantly : their northern frontier has plenty of Horse Archer spawns to add to your ranks. With those you can then wheel around to get the Persians and the Arabs.
If Persia seems really impossible to crack because they went to Crossbows, another option is to get Politics, train a spy (cut your science, Divans help with Spy power), provoke a revolt in Parsa ("we have Mongols at home") and take it this way — Oghuz can enter territory quickly and stay where they are upon declaring war, allowing for those kind of tactics, but you need to recognize the problem early enough to act. In general I found it a good idea to invest heavily in spies towards Persia, the Turks don't require a lot of Science and they can find partners to trade (Korea, Chola, Tibet, the Khmer even).
I'm all for additional Oghuz spawns to add to your ranks, though. Great idea ; it feels weird having to rely so massively on China instead.
I'll give my own idea for a buff : what about giving the Oghuz access to the Cover and/or Raider promotions ? That would encourage getting a couple of Barracks to start with them, and that would make them much more efficient at getting the job done by piercing the line and quickly grabbing a bunch of cities, without relying so much on Catapults.
Zalfos
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2025
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- 17
The issue with any sort of Turk settling operation is that your starting capital spot is Orduqent. It cannot do the settlers itself (appropriately pretty bad spot and it needs 100 Culture for the third UHV) and is in the East Asia continent, which means that the good cities that you start with in Transoxiana also cannot produce the settlers. This leaves you with the Tarim Basin where there is not much food — and once again points towards China, as taking Chang'an also allows for quick Settler production. If you decide to go against the grain and settle your capital just one tile west, you are making yourself an unseen favour, as now you have some stronger cities to make Settlers.
Maybe that Settler limitation should not apply to the steppe civilizations.
As an addendum, is there any map of the Silk Route corporation somewhere ? Getting those 14 cities can be tricky.
Maybe that Settler limitation should not apply to the steppe civilizations.
As an addendum, is there any map of the Silk Route corporation somewhere ? Getting those 14 cities can be tricky.
Maggy_domain
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2018
- Messages
- 108
I second this by adding that Tibet has the same problem, with only Lhasa being able to train settlers
Zalfos
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2025
- Messages
- 17
I've ran a bunch of additional Turk games (as well as one Kushan to confirm my suspicions), and while the first Turk UHV can be done with some decent starting luck and a decent amount of reloads, I think the second is mathematically impossible. You need 14 cities with the Silk Route, and I think it's too many with the current Company logic. I tinkered with the code for some additional logs and try ideas, and it boils down to two factors :
- The Silk Route is too slow to spread. Adding the Automobiles has bumped the numbers of corps from 9 to 10, and lengthened to check for their spread from 4 to 5 turns, and it can only add one city at a time. With the worst conditions, you would need 14 loops to even have a chance at it, or 70 turns — you don't have that many. Either the loop needs to be shortened, or if multiple cities are available to get a company, the game should do them in sequence, adding the company to multiple cities if they still fulfil the conditions after each loop. Which leads us to :
- The Silk Route is too hard to spread. The Company code has a rule where cities of a player need to have a value higher than twice the amount of controlled cities already having a company for it too spread, otherwise they lose the company altogether. But I don't see how I could get 14 cities to a value of at least 26, I usually hover between 14 and 18, because once you get more than 4 cities with the Silk Route, values get a -33% hit, increased to a -50% hit if I ever managed to get to 8 (I did not).
I also think that progressive value malus makes the Kushans impossible, but I did not test it nearly as much.
Might warrant digging deeper, but for an easy fix I would go with :
- Allow for multiple cities to get a company in the same turn, maybe with a lowered chance for those after the first.
- Change the check for the Silk Route, to require lower city values (or not tank the city values as hard when you get to 25% and 50% of the company monopoly).
Also, while I was perusing the code :
> The game ends in 2025 now so the modern Companies should extend their "fall date" to 2025 as well, they are still ending in 2020.
> The Silk Route has a -2 malus for China, but China is not in the valid regions. It's fine as it's internal code, but the text description of the mod in the Corporation tab suggests that the Corporation can, in fact, spread to China. It should either allow for China to be in the valid regions but make it very hard to get and keep with a malus, or not tell in-game that China can have the corporation.
- The Silk Route is too slow to spread. Adding the Automobiles has bumped the numbers of corps from 9 to 10, and lengthened to check for their spread from 4 to 5 turns, and it can only add one city at a time. With the worst conditions, you would need 14 loops to even have a chance at it, or 70 turns — you don't have that many. Either the loop needs to be shortened, or if multiple cities are available to get a company, the game should do them in sequence, adding the company to multiple cities if they still fulfil the conditions after each loop. Which leads us to :
- The Silk Route is too hard to spread. The Company code has a rule where cities of a player need to have a value higher than twice the amount of controlled cities already having a company for it too spread, otherwise they lose the company altogether. But I don't see how I could get 14 cities to a value of at least 26, I usually hover between 14 and 18, because once you get more than 4 cities with the Silk Route, values get a -33% hit, increased to a -50% hit if I ever managed to get to 8 (I did not).
I also think that progressive value malus makes the Kushans impossible, but I did not test it nearly as much.
Might warrant digging deeper, but for an easy fix I would go with :
- Allow for multiple cities to get a company in the same turn, maybe with a lowered chance for those after the first.
- Change the check for the Silk Route, to require lower city values (or not tank the city values as hard when you get to 25% and 50% of the company monopoly).
Also, while I was perusing the code :
> The game ends in 2025 now so the modern Companies should extend their "fall date" to 2025 as well, they are still ending in 2020.
> The Silk Route has a -2 malus for China, but China is not in the valid regions. It's fine as it's internal code, but the text description of the mod in the Corporation tab suggests that the Corporation can, in fact, spread to China. It should either allow for China to be in the valid regions but make it very hard to get and keep with a malus, or not tell in-game that China can have the corporation.
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