Suicide

[White Elk]

I have counseled freinds through suicide and put all my conerns second to theirs while we work to keep them alive. In my life I have considered suicide a few times. A few days ago I was just one breath away from it. I was locked loaded and in position and ready to call the Sheriffs department so they could come collect my body before it rotted. Previously when I thought of suicide it seemed to be just a notion which although I planned the circumstances, I never thought I would come so close to it. I have hiked to the top of my regions highest mountain to end it and decided not to. It always seemed weak, it seemed foolish and it seemed selfish. But being within one single trigger pull from it, I now understand just a little more of the hoplessness which brings people to the actual point of doing it. I placed a tarp down, loaded my rifle, imagined the act and the prepared what I would say to the Sheriffs office just before ending it. I also thought of other ways such as hiking to a local favorite wooded spot of mine and digging a hole and engineering a plywood device to dump some shallow dirt on me as I pulled the trigger.

For me it was a situation of continually walking up a sand hill.. taking one step forward and losing two steps back. A seemingly perpetual cycle which has lasted many many years. If it was just my life I lived for I would never be here to have considered this. But after hoplessness in helping family and then now that I suffer ailments from laboring and have no health insurance and nothing to fall back on, and while I continue to take care of needy family, I have come to the end of my rope. An act of suicide appeared to be an act of euthanasia. Not just for me but for those around me. I do think I should do it in a way that seems an accident such as falling asleep at the wheel or slipping off a mountain. But I could not wait. I never thought I would be so close. But I was and I sayed a couple goodbyes. One of those who I said goodbye to had just lost a child in utero. This individual has other family concerns and I know that his giving nature is also abused to the point of self detriment. After telling him goodbye and then him responding and then later telling me of his current difficulties including a recent loss of an uborn child made the biggest impact on my decision to stay here. Thank you bud! You know who you are.

Prior and still just after our short converstion I attempted to call a few suicide hotlines and I Never got through to a real person. Everysingle one gave me some spanish option and then other automated bullsquat. The one I trusted the most, the Boys and Girls Club of America I tried three times to get through to them. Not once did I make it through their impersonal automations. After holding for the fracking English version the line was dropped every single flipping time! Then I searched online and googled a variety of topics starting with "Suicide"... then trying "help me sucicide", "suicide help" etc. All I found were sick jokes and chat forums of insignificance to the ultimate decision I faced and sought help for. Lucky for me I did not base my suicide upon people not carring about me. Otherwise I would be gone now.

I dont know why I write this, it is embarrising and I see no point to it beyond selfish concerns which are nulled by my embarasment. But I must say that being told by a poster that I should just kill myself and then having a moderator ignore it.. and then after sharing my thoughts of ending it all other posters made light of it. You few did help me to spur me to travel those last few steps which nearly did it for me. You gave me even more reason/justification for it. In the end I thank you fore I survived and now that I actually was there I have learned something. But still frack you for your insincerity and callousness.

And yes this is a loooong post.... kill me.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

http://www.spanusa.org/

If you can't get through to a Suicide Hotline, just call 911 and they'll take it from there. They don't usually deal with suicide, but they are probably trained to.

Seek professional help, now. If there is a mental health facility in your urban area, drive there. If not, drive to a hospital. Drive somewhere, anywhere medical related, they will help you at least contact appropriate people. Call 911, call your mother, call your local pastor, call somebody. Just, call somebody.

 

[Bad Player]

What Pasi said.

 

[White Elk]

Good advice Im sure and shared with the purpose of helping. But I followed that site and from the state of mind I was in at that time that site would have done absolutley no good. I have no pastor to call. My mothers inability to deal with life is the entire reason I have given up my life for my family. My best friend I have counseled past suicide and did not want to inlove him for perhaps giving him reason to end his life. Some other friends I did not want to bother and although they are friends they are people who appear to be quite selfish. I never even considered them. Driving somewhere in my state of mind was a danger to others and I was not willing to risk others for my own selfish concerns.

But thank you Pasi I do think you are earnest in your attempt to help! And I do think that since I came so damn close I survived and now am safer than I was before I took those last steps.

 

[White Elk]

Frackin Google et all should prioritize web searches on suicide to provide first page results that actually help those who are in this state of mind. I say this from recent personal expericance. Links to idiots who make fun of it should be be placed at the back of the list regardless of how many 'hits' their site gets or how much advertising power they have.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Be more specific in your searches....ie "Oregon USA suicide help" or something like that.

 

[White Elk]

Well I must say that in that state of mind that the most simple search should enable us the potential sucider to locate national resources which actually help. In that state of mind the mind is not operating at full.

Though I understand that my nations current and past administrations constantly cut the funding for such civil resource and so it is no wonder that when I needed them they were not there. It makes no differance as to how my taxes have been taken from me. I willingly gave for the common good. Yet the common good be damned when individual politicians make policy decisions to affect their personal good. And I understand that there exists and enviroment here in my country which quitely says.... "why waste precious resources on those people".

 

[Abaddon]

Hold old are you.. whats your living status?

 

[Kyriakos]

White Elk, after reading your OP i got the impression that you are trying to base your life on your views of your connections to others, and how they are developed. However one can only live for oneself foremostly, and only if you are happy with yourself can you really have meaningful/pleasant relations with others.
It is of course positive that you decided to not kill yourself, but you should take the next step as well and seek help.
Hope it works out in the end

 

[White Elk]

Hold old are you.. whats your living status?

It is not relevant to the bigger picture of society but I am 37, single... left my productive life to help family in need and now live in my parents basement appartment. Nice enough accomadations for what I am used to, and in a rural enviroment for which I place great value on. Prior I labored for a living and my wages and expericance offered a lifestyle that was sustainable yet not retireable. But I was more than content just taking care of me and my cat friend. I also sold my art from time to time attempting to put something away for the future.

Now I struggle to do the things for my elderly parents which they cannot do for themselves. And I am stuck walking up a sand hill in dealing with my mothers junk. Literally 3/4s of a Semi-trucks worth. I want to deal with the organizational aspects of the storage of her shite so I can then deal with the structural concerns which are killing my father.... ie the mold and mildew (he has a lung disease and we live in a wet enviroment) along with the maximisng of space to where my mother can actually pursue her hobbies rather than be brought down by the logistical concerns of the volume of shite which she owns. I seek to help them be healthy and to help them to pursue the life of recreation which their age justifies. Additionally there are some serious enviromental conerns that need constant care and so I battle the Nettle and Blackberry and other seasonal enviroment concerns. There is too much to do to lose ground in stupidity which Mother creates. I clear precious space and create order within disorder and she mail orders more crap to fill in the spaces which I gained to deal with the old shite. I can make no forward progress this way.

Then my single sister with her two kids moves here and lives off the family and takes far more than she gives. She lives a lifestyle of undue luxury which parasites of my parents resources who should at their age be relaxing now and enjoying the fruits of their labors. My sister bleeds then and I must lose time for my parents concerns to take care of her worthless arse. Then my Grandmother dies and now my socially challenged Aunt needs my help. She is legally unable to care for herself. The only thing that keeps her from some sick institututional life is Us, her family.

Then mother gets chickens which further add difficulty to my enviromental responsibilities. And now the weather keeps worsening and the storms grow worse from year to year and I cannot keep up with it all let alone make ANY forward progress on that which I gave up my life for. For me to leave them would be abandoning them but for me to stay is to abandone me. There appears to be no hope to move their live forward in a good way. Mother and sister literally work counter to all the works I do for them. Yet I cannot give up on them. But I cannot also suffer walking up this sand hill anymore. I take one step forward and lose two steps back. For a couple people who dont even take a half a step now and again. If not for my father who struggles as I do but does not have the health that I do, I may have left a year ago.

To quote the musician Edie Brickell... "It is suicide to stay, and murder to leave."

 

[Nylan]

Faith, just have faith that you'll make it through. Pray to God for help, believing that he can and if situation permits will help you get through, and then work like you're the only one who can fix your problems.

It's a powerful tool, and it's helped someone I know from returning to past suicide thoughts.

Best of luck to you, I hope your situation improves, and I apologize for whatever may have happened to offend you on the forums. I know it's only a forum, but some of us are here for you, any time you need us.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, you should examine why you see your parents as something you are obliged to help, because such an attitude is entirely unhealthy. Children are not obliged to be the nurses of their elderly parents. It only works the other way round, and only when the children are still non-adults.

 

[White Elk]

Hold old are you.. whats your living status?

Something else I should perhaps say which relates to the role for family which I fill.... When I was 7 my sister was born. Then when I was twelve my brother and sister were born (fraternal twins). My mother was sick and on bed rest and my fathers duties in the USMC kept him away from home often. I HAD to take care of my family for there was noone else. I started earlier than 12 as Father would be sent overseas and even when stateside would have crazy hours which required me to help cover for him. I never had problem with this and indeed this early responsibility lead to a work ethic which granted me some unusual promotions which lead to some interesting job responsibilites. I think young preteens should be given some serious does of responsibility.

But as it worked out my mother and my eldest sister took the crutch I offered and use it today. Finally once my brother got married and then had his own kid, he runs independant. But then he abandons my parents and can find time to play but not help. His twin lives out of state and she schools for a medical profession. She was the one of my siblings to have the greatest communal spirit but she must focus on her own life. The my eldest sister comes here to live off her parents and now drains me. If only she would take care of her own **** then I could focus on my parents needs fully. But she and my mother keep sending my backwards. I have taken care of them since I was twelve. I worked illegal (too young) and gave my money to my family. Then after high school I worked two full time jobs and gave more than one jods paycheck to my family. My siblings got toys I never had. An enlisted military family struggles even once my Father was the Maintenance Chief for the Marine Corps first duty squadren of the F/A-18. Even then the living costs of Southern California outdid his countrys wages to him. So I stepped up once again. And I never minded. It was just a family thing. Gotta take care of family. But now after all these years my eldest sister still takes more than she gives, and my mother still creates more need than she can fill. My other sisters gone, my brother does his own thing, and my Father has some serious lung concerns. So my family operates at a defecit and I cannot leave them. Yet I cannot stay. I thought it wouold take perhaps a year to square away their new house and tame their property. But there is no end in sight.

 

[Nylan]

I don't know how much comfort it is, but the phrase that came to mind is:

"God gives no challenges to men that they themselves cannot overcome"

You must be a very strong person. You will only get stronger from this. Hang in there.

 

[White Elk]

Well, you should examine why you see your parents as something you are obliged to help, because such an attitude is entirely unhealthy. Children are not obliged to be the nurses of their elderly parents. It only works the other way round, and only when the children are still non-adults.

Perhaps I am wrong... but for me family is family. Family helps family. For me one major thing wrong with modern society is just how far people abandon their family. My family is in need and how the frack can I ignore it even though this has gone on from the time my conscious mind had first begun to develope. I am fine with helping family. But for two crucial members I have become their crutch. I would love to pull that crutch and force them to learn to walk or crawl. But there is my father and my neice and nephew involved as well. And now my elderly aunt (fathers sister) who cannot take care of herself. How can I seperate myself from my family needs? Even had not my entire life been about helping my family, how could anyone abandon their own family?

 

[Nylan]

Family is important

Just try to help them be as independent as possible. The point is really to not let them rely on you simply because you're willing to do the work. They should put in effort to the best of their ability...even if it isn't much. Some of them are doing this already. I understand that for the rest it may be more difficult.

Family is key. They are the core of the universe. We should love and take care of them. I'm with you on that.

 

[Kyriakos]

Perhaps I am wrong... but for me family is family. Family helps family. For me one major thing wrong with modern society is just how far people abandon their family. My family is in need and how the frack can I ignore it even though this has gone on from the time my conscious mind had first begun to develope. I am fine with helping family. But for two crucial members I have become their crutch. I would love to pull that crutch and force them to learn to walk or crawl. But there is my father and my neice and nephew involved as well. And now my elderly aunt (fathers sister) who cannot take care of herself. How can I seperate myself from my family needs? Even had not my entire life been about helping my family, how could anyone abandon their own family?

The problem is that this is not really a life; it mostly resembles a burden. Furthermore if you are so deeply involved with your parents now, what will happen to you if they die? (which shall happen to everyone obviously). Are you at all prepared for such an event?
Some parents make the very bad mistake to treat their young children as people who should be as responsible as adults. This can easily ruin the child though, which should grow up having first lived as a child, without worries.

Furthermore you should note that your own views of your parents are just your own. Even if your parents/other family members, could not survive without you (which perhaps is not the case) again this would be their own fault. A good parent would never accept his/her child to be sacrificing something of his own on account of him/her.

 

[White Elk]

I don't know how much comfort it is, but the phrase that came to mind is:

"God gives no challenges to men that they themselves cannot overcome"

You must be a very strong person. You will only get stronger from this. Hang in there.

Thanks. I have done so for a few years now. All of a sudden and without warning it felt like too much. I suppose current political events combined with pysical injuries which now limit the bliss I had always held out hope in acheiving for myself is now gone. I cannot afford the doctor even if the doctor can help fix my body to make the kind of money which might possibly be my way of earning my nest egg after my sacrifice here is done. Even if I can get family to the point where I feel my help is not CRITICALLY needed then I am lost as far as acheiving my own bliss. I cant work to school. Now that construction, lumber mills etc are out of the picture I am stuck with cashiering and cooking. Those barely pay the overhead let alone set aside something for the future or allow me to go to school. I once fantasized that I could take my knowledge of grading musical instrument lumber and gain myself Canadian citizenship. Get out of country I have no more faith in and work in an industry I love. It is not pyshically possible anymore. I wasted myself working my arse off for pennies and now there is no industry left me which I can get ahead in. Reschooling is always an option but one needs money to reschool. The industries left me now do not pay rent, car insurance and basic food let alone schooling expense.

 

[Abaddon]

i disagree. You shouldnt do anything that drives you this low. Luck after #1 and then concern you with other.

Have you made your feelings clear to your sister? to your mother?

Give up with your mother.. you can't stop her buying rubbish.. as you said make a space and she will fill it.. if everythings full what does she do.
She is a grown woman, she should be able to see what she is doing.


BTW these 2 cents come from an idilic 20y.o.

 

[Princeps]

Of course, I subscribe entirely to the Sean Kennedy view on suicide.

The worst thing one can do when conforting someone suicidal is not to take his intent or suffering seriously. I wonder how many this sick, pathetic, disgusting sean kennedy has killed with that "rant".

----

Anyway - my advice, if you're depressed - listen to adiemus.