Suicide

[Nylan]

I can't think of any professions at the moment, but somewhere there may be a job that can help. I've also heard of hospitals that work for free for those who can't afford care, some paying hospitals have specific days set apart for those things. I could be wrong, but I do remember seeing something to that effect.

Try not to worry too much about the grand scheme of your life for the next few years, do what little you can, take "baby steps" as it has been called. Take life one piece at a time, a small chunk from the wall every now and again can topple the thing. Diligence, patience, and faith.

Abaddon has *some* points with which I agree, which is that you need to talk to your family about your financial situation. Help them to understand how to spend properly. Perhaps give members a spending limit.

By that same token, don't just up and leave them...but you already knew that. Family is important, even when it's stressful.

Look up the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". While you may not necessarily be aiming at rich, the thoughts on money in the book can help you manage it to it's best potential.

 

[Brighteye]

White Elk, this is a bad situation. I'm a good few years behind you, but I can see this happening (in a way) to me.

Can I suggest that you have firm words with your sister? You must make it clear that she is a burden on you and your parents, and that should she continue this then she will not be allowed to be.

While I agree that family ties can be strong, how much do you care for each of your parents? It soudns like your mother is causing you a lot of frustration. Would you be willing to take a few years out, find a good job and a new home and then invite your father and/or your mother to join you?
You still have a very long time ahead of you. You can re-educate. I know a few people here who are your age and are learning medicine (what I teach). There's even an 87-year old. It's never too late.

Finally, remember that while there's time left, there's hope of a better life. While there's even a glimmer of hope there's no reason to kill yourself. Killing yourself can only end all hope for you and your family.

A psychiatrist might cost a lot in America, but I do suggest that you take action now. Whether it is finding a psychiatrist, talking to your sister and mother and making sure that they know that you're in charge, or finding a local charity to help you with the chores, you need not only to do these chores, but to try to change the situation.

 

[White Elk]

The problem is that this is not really a life; it mostly resembles a burden. Furthermore if you are so deeply involved with your parents now, what will happen to you if they die? (which shall happen to everyone obviously). Are you at all prepared for such an event?
Some parents make the very bad mistake to treat their young children as people who should be as responsible as adults. This can easily ruin the child though, which should grow up having first lived as a child, without worries.

Furthermore you should note that your own views of your parents are just your own. Even if your parents/other family members, could not survive without you (which perhaps is not the case) again this would be their own fault. A good parent would never accept his/her child to be sacrificing something of his own on account of him/her.

Well I dont know if my life was a life of service by birthright or by nature. But I I do know that beyond family I have always put myself into a position to help others. In the BoyScouts it was as Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. I started in other roles but it was my drive to look after the common good which made me the candidate to be in positions to help. In work this held true as well. I began working at age twelve (mowing lawns to buy groceries). Then at 14 I started painting and fixing up rentals for a member of my church. A few months later I began working on an avocado ranch in Temecula California (also for a church member). Finally when I was of legal age to work (16) I began working at Knowlwoods Hamburger and left that due to a family move. Then I worked at Thrifty Drug. In a few short months I was promoted to a shift leader and then just a couple months later I was promoted but not officially and did not recieve the pay of benefits for I was too young. But I was the Assistant manager for my store. Other minor jobs of responsibility followed and then came Pinkerton Security. Once again within a few short months I was promoted and then reached my legal cap. My District Manager and my Operations Manager wanted me to start training for an Operations Manager position. But I was under 21. So I did the jobs of Patrol Sergeant, Field Supervisor, and ATM First Line Maintenance for a major national bank. This history of unusual promotion oppurtunities and limitations based on youth just continued on even after I left the city and took off to travel the country to live out of my backpack.

I was finally 21 and Stein and Volk promoted my to Raw Materials Manager for our lumber operations. There are many many more. And many I came on as a new guy and then found myself supervising people who had more experiance than I. It all came down to an attitude of looking after the common good. I would stoop down and pick up someones discarded trash and I would jump in and lend a hand to carry a brudon which was not in my 'job description'. This attitude has served me well and I dont not want to discard it lightly. I dont think I even can if I tried. It is my nature I think. My enviroment might have had something to do with it but then my siblings were under some similar difficulties as I and they care more about the self than the We even though they openly rely on the WE.



Ohh your concern about me being ready if my parents died.... Well I left all security and travelled the country living out of my backpack for near ten years. I started out travelling in a VW Bus and then we sold that to pay for tickets to get to Alaska. After leaving Alaska and traveling down to extreme Northern Califronia (Humboldt County) I left the security of my collegehood friend and travelled alone. I worked seasonal jobs and then lived alone in the woods until I ran out of resources. Then back to work and then back to life. After my sawmill closed its doors I was settling down and had found employement with a golf course construction outfit. I self taught myslef a little spansih throughout my work history and my work ethic aloing with leadership ability along with my ability to work with Mexican crews set me up for a good gig with this outfit. They travelled and I loved travel. The work was hard and outdoors and I craved that. But family called and I answered. Now I am stuck walking up a sand hill which there is no end in sight. I would be sad if my mother died, but then I am sad to say that things would be much easier to resolve. I rely on them for nothing and pay my way. I am here for them and if not for their need I would be living back in Humboldt County CA among the Redwoods on the coast. My art gains me at least a living there. My forestry knowledge (despite how unpopular there) will also be a boon. For I can work independant and can work around my injuries yet still make a substainable wage. So no, although I would suffer the loss of my parents, there would only be positive gains as relates to invididual life as it is now.

 

[Nylan]

Are you still a member? If so you might be eligible for church welfare.

 

[Abaddon]

What injurys do you have?

 

[Brighteye]

White Elk, you sound like a fine man. You go and sell art (is this carving? Pictures?), and indulge in forestry which you love so much.
You can arrange for some of your wage to pay for help at home. There will always be willing teenagers who'll take your money and drive over to your parents to clean the house.
Or perhaps you can persuade your sister to care for your parents, in exchange for you sending some money over. You do need some sort of change, and from what you've said, getting away would be the best option. It's still in the country. You can visit regularly.

You can't help your parents properly in this state. You need to mend yourself before you support them, and you can do that by getting away.

 

[White Elk]

i disagree. You shouldnt do anything that drives you this low. Luck after #1 and then concern you with other.

Have you made your feelings clear to your sister? to your mother?

Give up with your mother.. you can't stop her buying rubbish.. as you said make a space and she will fill it.. if everythings full what does she do.
She is a grown woman, she should be able to see what she is doing.


BTW these 2 cents come from an idilic 20y.o.

I have tried in soft words and in hard words. About two years ago I told them this is my last effort. Help me help you or you are on your own. I did not live up to that promise and they made no special effort to get past their own self induced limitations. I was caught up in work but managed to keep slightly ahead here. Then my mothers mother passed and things naturally feel behind a little and I picked up slack. Then the money came and then so do did all the extra crap. Now these last couple weeks as they are out of state dealing with my Uncle who was imprisoned, now mother buys shite quicker than I can clear a space for. Beyond that family heirlooms will be arriving that I must make space for. But there is no space for what she had before. Then she buys crap which is never unpacked, and now more things come. We have a storgae unit I was staging items for storage in, and then the day I have everything sorted and ready to go my sister tells me that she filled it with her crap! Yet all she did was through the shite in there and made no real effort to organize. I ask her to mark boxes as to what I can stack in the back and what should be left accesisable and she just freaks out like mom does when I try and make reason out of chaos.

I told Mom she should forgoe some spending of money of stuff and hire a family pyshologist/mediator to help us solve these serious difficulties. But that went down like lead in the ocean despite her love for all things 'selfhelp'.

In the reality of what I face here... If not for constant struggle then there are just allyways in the living spaces in which to travel. Even food cannot be prepared for the space which is lost. IT is not just my mother but my Father for whom I am concerned for. And now it is my young neice and nephew who learn these horrible habits. They need to see good example. I fear not only will they suffer but their children will also suffer for the bad habits they learn now. And my Father who has suffered all his life for his family and then country and still now suffers for family... deserves to have order preserved out of all this disorder. He deserves some freedom. He has earned it. Even mom deserves freedom to live life in the most comfortable way that we can create.

 

[Nylan]

I guess the one thing to remember is that you cannot change people. No matter how much you want to and no matter how much information you present supporting the value of such a change

it is them who must decide. You've done what you can.

 

[White Elk]

I can't think of any professions at the moment, but somewhere there may be a job that can help. I've also heard of hospitals that work for free for those who can't afford care, some paying hospitals have specific days set apart for those things. I could be wrong, but I do remember seeing something to that effect.

Try not to worry too much about the grand scheme of your life for the next few years, do what little you can, take "baby steps" as it has been called. Take life one piece at a time, a small chunk from the wall every now and again can topple the thing. Diligence, patience, and faith.

Abaddon has *some* points with which I agree, which is that you need to talk to your family about your financial situation. Help them to understand how to spend properly. Perhaps give members a spending limit.

By that same token, don't just up and leave them...but you already knew that. Family is important, even when it's stressful.

Look up the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". While you may not necessarily be aiming at rich, the thoughts on money in the book can help you manage it to it's best potential.

I have checked into some local programs for getting even just xrays of my back elbows and knees so I might learn what I can activelly do to reverse the loss of movement and feeling. I suffer loss of feeling in my left hand and now loss of feeling in left toes. This is not heart for its been well over a year now. But I cant even get that. And for federal... well just like local there are too many on the list ahead of me. Many of these are children. gw bush continues to cut my countries services and I will not cut into others needs when others suffer more than me. And even working with 2400+ a month I knew I would die with cancer rather than life with a life long debt regardless of how long that life lasted. So I will not take from the public funds when the public funds are so gosh darn depleted and growing worse.

My Father and I have tried many times to curb my mothers spending. We have had some tough talk and now everytime the subject is broached she reverts to childlike behaivor. I dont know what to do about that anymore. She wants to do things to the house and I offer my labour and my contractor connections to lessen the cost. I can save thousands of dollars in our septic fixes for expample by just helping a one time coworker by working on his land. He offers my labor for his labor (backhoe etc). But all of this requires that the house gets under control. I cant rip out basement walls until I get her shite outof the basement. I cant increase the space in the kitchen until we can deal with her crap in the kitchen, dinning room and laundry room. A twelve set table is loaded ceiling high with crap and is packed underneath and on all sides. More stuff comes, and now more family relics will now come.

Ahhhhhhhhh. They cannot physically deal with it and mom cannot emotionally deal with. And after a few years of this nor can I. My personal problems with loss of the income I once knew which through hard work and frugality in spending would allow for me to work for my future is just one aspect of why I think I reached the point I did. But clearly to me it is the hoplessness of my familys situation which ultimatly drove to just nearly doing it. I cannot abadon them. And they cannot do it on their own. I dont know what the heck to do anymore. And even if I can get them to a point where they can live like humans then I have no future still. arghhhhhhhh

 

[Nylan]

Well then Brighteye is correct, you need to get out. You've done what you can. Change for yourself is the first step.

 

[Abaddon]

Where does you mother get the money from to spend? Is there no way you can take control of her funds so that she only has so much to spend?

 

[White Elk]

I can't think of any professions at the moment, but somewhere there may be a job that can help.

As for jobs.. I do seek to take my art to the next level if I can just make some small investment to do so. As for working for others I would like to school myself into a job of effeciency. TO work for those outfits who come into manufacturing etc outfits and then look for ways to increase the efficiency. This is what I do in all my jobs. Reduce ten steps and spend a dime today to save a penny everyday. I am driven to increase efficiency and productivity because I see the suffering the workers go through and I see how the saving of wasted money and energy will relate to more funds which will further expedite the workers to save even more money which will further better their day to day. I absolutely hated to be told there was no money to buy an industrial shop vac when I saw that labor wasted using a home version with a 3/4 hose spent more in a week than the upgrade would have cost. I worked for a home builder for two years and in all that time that cheap frack would waste our labor and his money with a home version of a shop vac that clogged allllllllll day long. Just for one small example. It was much more serious in the saw mill etc

 

[White Elk]

Well then Brighteye is correct, you need to get out. You've done what you can. Change for yourself is the first step.

I just can't abandon them. Beleive me I have tried. When I was younger I did it a couple times and came back to far worse. I never fully completed the job of installing an organizational system for which my mother could contain and use her stuff. It all boils down to best utilixation of space. I feel that if I could just get it to the point where she has a place for everything then everything would have its place and then they could operate happily. But more junk arrives faster than I can organize. And before that more disorder was created before I could create order. Its all so simple in my mind. In my mind I visualize a work and living space to be such that even if the lights go out one can find whatever one seeks due to effective organization. You know the space and you know where things are. Mother is the opposite. I accept that. But then I see just how horribly this affects her life and my Fathers and now my young neice and nephew. The young ones, and soon Bradley my Brothers son will also be old enough to learn bad habits from this. I see how my grandfather gave this to my mother, and I dont want it to go further. Also I want my Father and even my mother to be happy. They deserve it more than me. And the youngest in our family deserve to learn through action how to be. This all goes far beyond my own personal life.

 

[White Elk]

Hey, thanks all for your time! I really appreciate it. I will respond to more and I will likely miss some. I just want to say now thank you very much for your assistance in this trouble I face.

 

[Nylan]

We're here for you any time (those of us who understand the importance of maturity in certain situations anyways). You'll do alright.

 

[White Elk]

White Elk, this is a bad situation. I'm a good few years behind you, but I can see this happening (in a way) to me.

Can I suggest that you have firm words with your sister? You must make it clear that she is a burden on you and your parents, and that should she continue this then she will not be allowed to be.

While I agree that family ties can be strong, how much do you care for each of your parents? It soudns like your mother is causing you a lot of frustration. Would you be willing to take a few years out, find a good job and a new home and then invite your father and/or your mother to join you?
You still have a very long time ahead of you. You can re-educate. I know a few people here who are your age and are learning medicine (what I teach). There's even an 87-year old. It's never too late.

Finally, remember that while there's time left, there's hope of a better life. While there's even a glimmer of hope there's no reason to kill yourself. Killing yourself can only end all hope for you and your family.

A psychiatrist might cost a lot in America, but I do suggest that you take action now. Whether it is finding a psychiatrist, talking to your sister and mother and making sure that they know that you're in charge, or finding a local charity to help you with the chores, you need not only to do these chores, but to try to change the situation.

I have had very kind words and very hard words. I think the kind words help the most but they hevent lead to action either. Sister will say there is no time for her to deal with her crap in the storage unit yet she finds plenty of time to play. Mother just shuts down everytime an organizational concept is discussed. I would be glad to give up if not for how I see this would affect their lives. And then their are the children to consider. They need role models. They can be told wahtever. But they will learn by action not words. Just like mother followed grandfather... so too will they follow mother if not for Father and I's counter.

I gave up on them after giving up on city life in the early 90s. I travelled free and lived like I king. I really did. I dined on fresh crap on my remote coastal "homemade' villa, and I feasted on fresh venison in mountain camps. I worked a few months of the year to support my play for the majority of the year. I left that life I sought a few times after visited my family for a holiday and seeing the bad shape they were in. I cleaned up messes, repainted, did long overdue yardwork... I did the things that my siblings should have done. They were old enough. I started at twelve. They should have started by 16 easy. I would catch up some things but then never really fully dealt with moms shite which was the root of all the trouble. I did what I thought I could and then left it up to her the matriarch to deal with the household after I decluttered it enough to facilitate her. Then I would come back a year or two later and WHAM! there it was worse than before.

I see how this behaivor has affected my younger siblings and I see how they perpetuate it. And I see the continued suffering that my parents suffer through. So after moving them from California to Washington to their first self owned home I thought since I gave it all up I would stick through and see it to the end. Well despite massive effort I walk up a sand hill and make no progress.

As to jobs I never have a hard time finding them. But I do have a hard time doing them now. It is tough for me to take a massive paycut to sit behind some counter and take peoples cash. My last 'official' job here was for two years working for a home builder. I was the buiders expeditor. I did all things from facitlitating the laying of the foundation to the turning over of the keys to the homebuyer. Just prior I lost most strength in my left hand and all feeling in all but my thumb and the next finger. Yet this did not slow me. During the course of this work I lost significant range of motion in my right arm. Still usable, but not near what I had been accustomed to. But I worked on... I mucked out the framers, roofers, drywallers crap, along with everything else. Most everyday I picked up literally tons of waste. I know this for I transported it the local landfill and signed the bills for the tonnage we deposited. I didnt heal. It grew worse. Eventually I had to leave my job and all that type of work which I loved.

Now I rely on the odd jobs of my neighbors whom I also worked for prior and during my work for Mason Homes. It gets me by. But it is no future. And all that I have learned helps me not for I cannot realistically work in those industries anymore. Yet I have worked retail, security and foodservice management. Along with management in the lumber industry and construction industries. Then my time with Mason Homes, although mostly labor invloved also involved running day laborers as well as liasoning with contractors and local government officials. So I do hope that others will value my Apprentice Jack of all Trades as I do. I see much value in the way I have worked these varied industries and I see I can be an assest to even an organisation for which I have had no experiance in.

Anyway my work thing is of little consequence really. Though I do think the hoplesness I feel for my future did add weight to the hopelessness I feel for my present.

 

[White Elk]

We're here for you any time (those of us who understand the importance of maturity in certain situations anyways). You'll do alright.

Thank you Nylan. I have always been an individual who really didnt care much for individual support. I grew up an oddball and accepted my differances. Yet I find your support comforting. Thank you again.

 

[Ayatollah So]

It all boils down to best utilixation of space. I feel that if I could just get it to the point where she has a place for everything then everything would have its place and then they could operate happily.

Sounds like you're working hard battling the symptoms ...

But more junk arrives faster than I can organize. And before that more disorder was created before I could create order.

... while the root cause goes unchecked. I dunno if there's anything you and your family can do about it, but if there's any way to stop the shopping sprees, or even just slow them down a lot, that's key. Tried cutting up credit cards?

In the big picture, you won't be much help to your family if you lead a life so miserable it drives you to suicide. That's gotta stop. Why are you the only one that has to be responsible all the time? :thumbdown

 

[White Elk]

Where does you mother get the money from to spend? Is there no way you can take control of her funds so that she only has so much to spend?

She used to get it from Fathers paycheck. With some extra from mine at times. Even in the worst of times she'd go thriftshopping and crap on sale. Stuff we didnt need and which took up space. Often things like nice furniture that was wasted but with care could be restored but never was.

Now she gained a couple hundred thousand US dollars which should set her and my Father up for life. Father was recently layed off from Boeing Aircraft. They had the money to bank it and live off the interest along with fixing the things that MUST be fixed on the house and then having some left over to do some extras to the house and property. But she now seems to be worse at seopnding now that it is 'her' money. Furthermore my sister seems to think she is entitled to some of it and so her ugly SUV wasnt sold after her husband left her and its fuel bill is supported by the parents. THen she lives off of fast food for her and her two kids instead of living frugal. And videos and junk junk junk. Frack it pisses me off. We are a community here. Yet they act as individuals. She is fine with draining the community treasury but she will not help with community projects. In fact everytime she comes here she leaves a mess to be cleaned up. I shouldnt have to take care of her kids when she is here. She should clean up their mess and in fact teach them to pick up their own mess. They are old enough.


Argghhhhh Now I feel like I am just whinnning. But these are the reasons I walk up a sand hill and make no progress. And is why I suddenly reached the breaking point and prepared my own death. I feel I am past it. I did not see it coming yet it for about 2 days the feeling of hopelessness grew to deep despair which caused me to think about it alot. Then suddenly I said what the ****! I wasnt in a clear mind but I thought intelectually of it. I planned it out. I prepared my death ground, readied myself... hesitated, tried to call a few hotlines, checked a number of websites, went back and forth between being just a trigger pull away and seeking some advice to help me avoid it. Besides the assistance of one online friend, I suppose it was also the deep anger I felt about the lack of suicide support that galvanised me a little against taking that action. Whatever I talk to you today, and I was certain that Thursday was my last day.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

This is just me talking, WE, but if I had a family member like your sister in that situation, I would simply unilaterally boot her to curb. She seems too irresponsible to raise children, so if my sister were like that I would volunteer to help raise the children in conjunction with my parents. My life would be dealt a heavy blow but I would simply not let her stand by and victimize her children like that.

And if you ever need to talk about something and find yourself without anyone to talk you, you can always come on here and send me a private message if you feel like it. I went through some, how shall I say this, times of great mental anguish earlier in my life, and it's solely due to the efforts of a good friend that kept me here.