SUL5a - Competing Succession Game Teams

[Zarth]

0. 130BC
Science to 20%. Luxuries to 20%. We will discover construction in one turn @ 22gpt. I switch Norwich to worker. This is a city in the jungle it needs the jungle cleared. The temple in Warwich requires 19 shields, I hurry it. The entertainer in London is fired, Pyramids in 7 instead of 8. Hasting harbor -> library.

We discover construction, start the Republic.

1. 110 BC
Warwick finishes temple, start worker.
Oxford the same.
Same with Hastings.
Norwich finishes worker, start worker.
I switch York to settler to go onto the galley.

2. 90BC
Canterbury finishes spearman, start worker.

3. 70BC
York finishes settler, start settler.
Newcastle worker -> worker.

4. 50BC
Worker movement.
Galley movement.

5. 30BC
Nottingham finishes library, start settler.

6. 10BC
Coventry finishes worker, start another one.
Same with warwick
same with liverpool

7. 10AD
Pyramids finished, start library.
Canturbury finishes worker, start worker.

8. 30AD
York settler, settler.

9. 50AD
worker movement

10. 70AD
Settler reaches city spot. We can build the city somewhere else on this little island. That's up to the next player. I think we should switch london to temple to be able to turn the luxuries down.

 

[D-Tox]

Got it.

Might have been able to play tonite but the forum maintenance has been going on. I should get an extra few hours added on to my allotment

 

[Sullla]

The game looks pretty good after Zarth's turn, the biggest weed being the unnecessary running of 20% luxuries when 10% will do. That's costing the civ 10gpt, which is a very significant amount at this stage of the game. Now that expansion is pretty much over, the team should consider discussing what to do next with the game. For example, is a military campaign the next item on the agenda? Is there going to be a big infrastructure push instead? What victory conditions are we thinking about pursuing? The answers to these kind of questions will dictate what to do next.

And D-Tox, you have a full 48 hours from your "got it" post to play your turn. There is certainly no obligation to have the game back within a few hours of playing.

 

[Zarth]

We don't need that many units to kill the Romans, so I'd say we start destroying the romans now and at the same time build infrastructure. When we discover chivalry we can begin conquering the rest of the continent. We also need to find the other AI civs.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Zarth
We don't need that many units to kill the Romans, so I'd say we start destroying the romans now and at the same time build infrastructure. When we discover chivalry we can begin conquering the rest of the continent. We also need to find the other AI civs.

Agreed.

 

[Wetterlind]

I too can agree with Zarth. Does the Romans have any contacts except with us? If not, then we can kill'em without worrying about our 'rep'.

 

[D-Tox]

Don't believe so...but when I play my turns this evening (or one of you can check this now if you can), I'll check diplomacy for the Romans and see who I can offer contact with. This will let us know if any civs have contact with them, right?

So I reckon I should start building some (around 8?) archers then on my turn? Seeing as we can at least get an upgrade out of them, whereas swordsmen are stuck as swordsmen.

 

[Zarth]

I think you should build swordsmen, because they have 3 attack points. Especially against Roman legionaries it will be a lot harder to win with archers, who have only 2 attack points.

 

[D-Tox]

0) 70AD - Luxury tax reduced to 10% after reading Sulla's commentary of last turn
- Shaka of the Zulus is asking for ROP...I decline.

1) 90AD - Nottingham finishes Settler, start on Colosseum (see if we can put some
culture pressure on some of the Zulu cities)
- Warwick finishes Worker, start on Warrior (will upgrade warriors to swordsmen
when we get Iron)
- Oxford finishes Worker, start on Worker (these jungle cities aren't
producing many shields, and we dont have the gold right now to be rushing
culture producing buildings)
- Norwich finishes worker, start on worker
- moved alot of workers around to get to new tasks
- Reading founded on island near the Roman territory, start on Worker
- Probably , but I don't see a place for any more towns
in the south without a great deal of overlap. I send the settler back up north.

2) 110AD - York expands!
- Adjust science to 70%, we get Republic in 9 more turns @ +1gpt
- Canterbury finishes worker, start on Warrior
- Newcastle finishes Worker, start on Harbor
- Liverpool finishes worker, start on Worker
- Trade WM for WM + 6g with Persia
- Trade wM for WM + 8g with Zulus
- Workers start road near Dover
- started to a road to hook up 2nd source of dyes
- moved workers around

3) 130AD - York finishes Settler, start on Barracks
- started a road to hook up 2nd source of incense

4) 150AD - London finishes Library, start on Great Library (even if we won't be needing it,
lets build it so another civ doesn't)
- Nottingham expands

(Persians start the Great Library)

5) 170AD - Just now I notice that Warwick has no barracks but I'm building a Warrior with it
switch to Library
- new source of dyes is now hooked up
- Iron is hooked up! We dont have barracks in many towns...only upgraded one warrior
to swordsman so far

6) 190AD - Coventry finishes Worker, start on Worker
- Moved workers around

7) 210AD - Canterbury finishes warrior, start on swordsman. Upgrade warrior to swordsman
- new source of incense is hooked up


8) 230 AD - Liverpool finishes worker, start on harbor

9) 250AD - Republic is now Researched, start on Monarchy, since we might be going to war soon (12 turns)

10) 270AD - York finishes Barracks, starts on Aqueduct
- Hastings finishes Library, starts on Barracks
- Oxford finishes Worker, starts on Library
- Hooked up a source of gems, get started on another one
- adjusted science so we're at a positive gpt

There's a couple of settlers sitting in towns to the north. Didn't want to found cities up there that were undefended...the Zulus are already walking troops around in our borders exploring.

When do we start clearing the jungle? Most of the towns are hooked up with roads, and have decent improvements. (I think...maybe they don't yet) We have a ton of workers, and I always misuse them.

Here's the saved game

 

[hotrod0823]

Grabbed the game: Will take a look around tonight but will get to my turns tomorrow. Glad to get another round in before I go away .

Couple quick thoughts. I don't agree with the GL here. We have a tech lead and the GL will not help us. Taking the GL so another civ won't get it IMO will only waste those few hundred shields of production. Those turns could be better used.

Also, I think I will change our research we are only 1 turn into Monarchy and I don't believe any war, especially with Rome will be long enough for us to be too effected by weariness. Republic is more reslinient to weariness than most believe. T-hawk went Republic in Epic 14 (always war) and I didn't see too much detriment. We should even see a boost in happiness for a few turns anyway. My thoughts revolt now, change research and start preparing to take Rome.

I will check the game out now and check tomorrow before I play my turns for sullla's and the others thoughts.

Hotrod

 

[Sullla]

Here are a few things to keep in mind for the next player:

Hotrod0823 is right in his analysis of the Great Library. With tech progression so painfully slow on Warlord level, there certainly is no need to build it. We will be the tech leaders, and will get no benefit from it. Spending 400 shields on it just to deny it to the AI civs is not worth the effort either. Remember we are only a few techs away from Education anyway!

Why are we still in Despotism if we have discovered the Republic? Get out of Despotism ASAP! We should revolt immediately. For that matter, it makes no sense to research Monarchy since we will likely stay in Republic for the whole game (the difference between Republic and Democracy is not great enough to justify a long anarchy period).

Why are workers building roads through the jungle? Since it takes many more turns to build road and then clear jungle (versus the other way around), in almost any situation we want to clear jungle first and then build a road second. It's fine to hook up cities or luxuries via jungle roads, but unnecessarily building roads on jungle is silly. Look inside cities to see what tiles are being worked and which cities need tiles to be improved; there are a number of cities that need worker help and are not getting it. That's how to decide what actions workers should do next.

And if you expect to fight the Romans anytime soon, I would suggest concentrating a little bit more on military matters. One sword is not going to cut it.

 

[hotrod0823]

Sul5a

260AD (0): Change research to Currency due in 7 with -1gpt. Renegociate peace with the zulu for 80 gold, and ask him to leave, he complied. Change Nottingham from colosseum to harbor, will wait for cathedrals to put more pressure on zulus. Change Hastings to aqueduct from barracks. Change London from GL to temple lossing 12 shields or 1 turn of production. Change liverpool to a barracks from Harbor.

270AD (1): Reading produces worker start temple. Whip temple in Brighton. We have 3 settler without homes!!! Start a revolution and pull 7 turns .

280AD (2): lots a worker actions.

290AD (3): 2 swords are loaded on a galley to go visit rome soon. By galley may be easier than through the spear on the mountains.

300AD (4): some legionary movement in the Rome camp. Cesear is getting restless. Republic in 4 more turns.

310AD (5): quite on all fronts. Renegociate peace with x-man for 20 of his 57 gold.

320AD (6): not much to report.

330AD (7): 1 more turn!!!

IBTW: Egypt builds GL. Aztecs cascade and take the Great wall.

340AD (8): New Republic of England, check all cities and adjust to research at 40% and get currency in 5 turn +1gpt. Lux still at 10%. Change liverpool to courthouse, it is now at 50% coruption. Change Brighton to courthouse. Change oxford as well. Hurry temple in Leeds for 96 gold.

Iroquois build Great Lighthouse. Zulu start HG.

350AD (9): some more worker actions, start irrigation of some grass by york. More jungle clearing as well, recommend clearing jungle before roads. Currency in 4 with +1gpt. Zulus have Monarchy but I don't make any trades we don't need it.

360AD (10): London builds archer and starts another, I think 3 archers in 6 turns beats 2 swords.

Currency due in 3 at 40%, +0gpt.

Zulus have Monarchy but not Republic, Trade Persians construction for 50 of his 58 gold. Rome is broke and lacks virtually everything. Some how they have contact.


Sul5A - 360AD

 

[Archer 007]

Got It.

 

[Sullla]

Renegotiating peace? This is a highly dubious action that I'm going to have to say no more of in this game. Although the 1.29f patch fixed some of the problems with this, weaker civs will still give away almost everything they have just to continue peace. The AI civs are too willing to give away what they have when renegotiating peace, and it allows the player to get something for nothing for all intents and purposes. So no more renegotiating peace with weaker civs just to wring concessions out of them - it's extremely dastardly bordering on exploitative.

As far as the game goes, major weed when it comes to London's unit production. You stated that it was better to have 3 archers than 2 swords. Maybe, but London is getting 15 shields/turn and can build both archers and swords in 2 turns! If London was in fact producing 14 shields/turn, I would reconfigure the city to pull in an extra shield and get to the desired number. Building archers when you can build swords or horses is generally not a good idea. Next player should keep in mind the fact that we still have next to no offensive military (due to the fact that we spent 7 turns in anarchy on the last turn).

And our map, for any lurkers who may be reading this.

 

[hotrod0823]

To think I learned about Renegociating peace from Sirian's Prod game. I don't agree that it is explotive, on Emperor and Deity it is common practice for the AI to take all your gold just to let you stay in the game. Renegociating peace was not off the table at the start and this was not meant to be an honorable game. I understand your reasoning but I think team B should play by those same rules.

As far as anarchy that was beyond my control.

And I see the sword vs. archer argument, I prefer the upgrade ability of the archer to long bow. I have grown to use the longbow more than most, personal preference I guess.

FYI: Sullla I think you will be glad to here that the AI in PTW is much less likely to sell workers!

Hotrod

 

[Archer 007]

The same problem as last time happened, so I lost my turn writeup. But I do remember most of it, so here's what i got.

Research on Currency was finished. Many Swordsman were producted. By the end of the next turn, we should be ready for a war. That about all that happened.

 

[Wetterlind]

Got it. I'll play monday night (CET).

 

[Sullla]

OK, a few comments on the game...

Why is Dover, a city with no barracks, building a swordsman? It could greatly benefit from either a courthouse, harbor, or acqueduct. (And while we're addressing Dover, why is it working an unroaded forest over a mined and roaded hill tile?)

Canterbury, a core city on a river, is stuck at size 6 for lack of food. Get some workers over to it and irrigate more plains tiles for it now!!! Ditto for Liverpool - we want our cities to grow as fast as possible, not be stuck for lack of food.

Otherwise things are pretty good. I especially like the prioritization of courthouses in cities with more than 33% corruption, since build a courthouse there gives back both shields AND commerce. Good job!

 

[Wetterlind]

Inherited turn: 460 AD
Took care of Dover and changed production to a courthouse. Changed Newcastle from lib to aqueduct.

Turn 1: 470 AD
The Persians wanted to trade world map. I said OK but I want 4g too. And so it was done. The Romans refuses to sell their maps. Nottingham build a swordsman, starts another.

Turn 2: 480 AD
London finishes a swordsman, starts another.

Turn 3: 490 AD
Warwick suffers from its bad surroundings and loses a citizen. We are now researching Monotheism - cathedrals are nice and we get closer to Chivalry.

Turn 4: 500 AD
Warwick is once again struck by disease! Hastings finishes an aqueduct and start on a marketplace. Liverpool finished courthouse and starts on library.

Turn 5: 510 AD
Warwick and Canterbury build libs and starts markets.

Turn 6 520 AD
More swords...

Turn 7: 530 AD
Oops! Forgot to check Oxford last turn and now it'll lose one turn of production due to civil unrest. Made a tax collector in Oxford.

Turn 8: 540 AD
Nothing, really.

Turn 9: 550 AD
Newcastle built aqueduct, starts lib again.

Turn 10: 560 AD
Brighton build courthouse starts harbor. Oxford finishes courthouse, starts marketplace (more money, more happy faces).

What next?
- I left 2 swords for next player to decide upon. Declare war now or wait? The Roman worker completed a road in the mountains and if we do it this turn we can catch it!
- Should we build Sun Tzu's?
- The Persians has an archer close to Oxford...

I could not attach the save file (too big?!) so here it is:
sul5a-560AD.zip

 

[Wetterlind]

Inherited turn: 460 AD
Took care of Dover and changed production to a courthouse. Changed Newcastle from lib to aqueduct.

Turn 1: 470 AD
The Persians wanted to trade world map. I said OK but I want 4g too. And so it was done. The Romans refuses to sell their maps. Nottingham build a swordsman, starts another.

Turn 2: 480 AD
London finishes a swordsman, starts another.

Turn 3: 490 AD
Warwick suffers from its bad surroundings and loses a citizen. We are now researching Monotheism - cathedrals are nice and we get closer to Chivalry.

Turn 4: 500 AD
Warwick is once again struck by disease! Hastings finishes an aqueduct and start on a marketplace. Liverpool finished courthouse and starts on library.

Turn 5: 510 AD
Warwick and Canterbury build libs and starts markets.

Turn 6 520 AD
More swords...

Turn 7: 530 AD
Oops! Forgot to check Oxford last turn and now it'll lose one turn of production due to civil unrest. Made a tax collector in Oxford.

Turn 8: 540 AD
Nothing, really.

Turn 9: 550 AD
Newcastle built aqueduct, starts lib again.

Turn 10: 560 AD
Brighton build courthouse starts harbor. Oxford finishes courthouse, starts marketplace (more money, more happy faces).

What next?
- I left 2 swords for next player to decide upon. Declare war now or wait? The Roman worker completed a road in the mountains and if we do it this turn we can catch it!
- Should we build Sun Tzu's?
- The Persians has an archer close to Oxford...

I could not attach the save file (too big?!) so here it is:
sul5a-560AD.zip