SUL5a - Competing Succession Game Teams

[Sullla]

We have 23 swords at the moment. That should be more than enough to occupy 4 Roman cities. In fact, we are hurting bigtime on unit costs (81 units to support this early in the game!), so I would highly advise using what we've got now before it becomes technologically obsolete. Remember, there's nothing wrong with putting shields into units - as long as you get something from them. Nothing is worse than building tons of units and not using them for anything, as it both slows your infrastructure development and forces you to pay to support them, which further slows the development of your civ... see where I'm going with this? We should use all those swords now, before pikes are discovered and they become less useful.

Wetterlind, your links failed because you typed them as "slu5a" instead of "sul5a". The CivFanatics server is also case-sensitive, so if you type "Sul5a" instead of "sul5a", it will also give you a broken link. Just remember that you can always fix broken links by editing them with the edit feature. Here is the actual gave save (I fished it out of the uploads folder): SUL5a 560AD. And here is the picture that Wetterlind meant to put above:

D-Tox <<< on deck
archer_007
hotrod0823
Wetterlind
Zarth <<< UP NOW

 

[Wetterlind]

About the broken links: then I submitted my reply last night I got kicked out because of ”too many users” and wasn’t able to reconnect to the forum again. I just now read my own post!

 

[Zarth]

got it!

 

[Zarth]

0. 560AD
We declare war to the Romans. After that I move all the swordsmen to the hill tile, capturing the Roman worker.
I switch London from swordsmen to marketplace and I do the same with York. A galley with two swordsmen sets course for Antium.

1. 570AD
We have 25 swordsmen now. I start attacking Cumae...and take it losing 2 swordsmen. The other swordsmen move to the mountain square two tiles NE of Rome.

We discover monotheism, start chivalry

2. 580AD
Dover fineshes couthouse, start aquaduct.

Two swordsmen are destroyed in battle against two Roman Legions.

3. 590AD
Notthingham finishes swordsmen, start marketplace. I move the swordsmen in position.

4. 600AD
This is how our units are positioned now:

Hlobane culture flips to us!!!

5. 610AD

I destroy two spears and a legion, which are walking around in Roman land.

6. 620AD
Canterbury finishes marketplace, start temple.
Liverpool finishes library, start marketplace.

7. 630AD
London finishes marketplace, start cathedral.
Newcastle finishes library, start marketplace.

8. 640AD
York finishes marketplace, start cathedral.
We capture Rome!!! We capture Antium!!!

We discover chivalry, start theology.

9. 650AD
Rome riots, york riots, same with nottingham.
Luxuries up to 30%. I need to end this war fast.

10. 660AD
Order restored in all cities that rioted previous turn. New civil disorders in Reading and Antium.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/sul5a660AD.zip

 

[Sullla]

Good to see you post the game Zarth - I wsa beginning to wonder if you weren't going to make the 48 hour deadline!

As for the game... This war was prosecuted poorly. There's no way that Rome should still be alive now 10 turns into the fighting. The map you posted tells it all. Why did you divide up the swords into stacks of 4-5 units? It would have been FAR better to keep them together in one large stack of 20 units, which would then methodically destroy cities one by one. I can see that your initial attack on Veii failed because you ran out of units to take the city. That wouldn't happen if you kept your attacking force together. And why did you fortify swords on mountains? What purpose did that serve? The goal should have been to capture the 4 cities quickly and effectively to destroy the Romans. That happened in the case of Cumae. You moved away from that idea with the other cities, and the result was mixed results, at best.

The luxury rate can be lower to 20% with no cities falling into disorder. Please try to pay attention to these kind of things, as just this 10% difference means 30gpt. Good call on the building of marketplaces, however.

D-Tox <<< UP NOW
archer_007 <<< on deck
hotrod0823
Wetterlind
Zarth

 

[D-Tox]

Got it

 

[D-Tox]

0) 660AD:
-Reduce Lux tax to 20%

1) 670AD:
-We defeat final defender in Veii, losing a swordsman. Romans are eliminated.
-Moved a lot of workers around. Sending most swordsman up north. If conquest
is the way to go, the Zulus will probably have to be next to go.

2) 680AD:
-Hlobane finishes worker, starts Temple
-Canterbury finishes Temple, starts Knight (we're gonna need more firepower than Swordsmen soon)
-Brighton finishes Harbor, starts Knight
-Our palace expands!

3) 690AD:
-Worker movement, starting to get rid of some of the jungle, too

4) 700AD:
-Zulus are cautious
-Nottingham finishes Marketplace, starts Knight
-Dove finishes Harbor, starts Marketplace

5) 710AD:
-Disease strikes Warwick for the 3rd time...
-Lots of worker movement
-Swordsmen continue their way north.

6) 720AD:
-London finishes Cathedral, starts Sun Tzu's Art of War
-Warwick finishes Marketplace, starts Colleseum
-Oxford finishes Marketplace, starts Library

7) 730AD:
-Our palace expands!

8) 740AD:
-Newcastle finishes Marketplace, start on Courthouse

9) 750AD:
-Monotheism is researched, start on Engineering
-Canterbury finishes Knight, start on Knight

10) 760AD:
-York finishes Cathedral, start on Knight


My observations/thoughts:
-Our workers are finishing up improvements around cities and clearing jungle.

-Most of our swordsmen have made it up north as well. We should probably upgrade our Warriors to swords at somepoint as well (I think...)

-We don't have any trades going on, but we should start that soon...probably with Persia, as we're going to want to kick the Zulus off the island at some point.

-We also need to get off this island and find the other civs! Are we behind in doing this?

The saved game

 

[Archer 007]

Got It!

 

[Sullla]

OK, a couple things to consider:

The luxury tax is set too high once again. There's no need for 20% luxuries; we can get away with 10% without any cities falling into disorder. This is the difference between +61gpt and +97gpt, and that's a pretty big difference.

Now that Rome has been destroyed, there's no need to maintain entertainers in the former Roman cities. I suggest firing them and allowing Rome and Antioch to begin growing again. The same goes for Nottingham: it doesn't need the entertainer it has and is not growing at the moment. Dover needs an acqueduct, not a marketplace, so it can go past size 6. Coventry needs a harbor and not a library so it can continue growing. This isn't too hard to do; just look at the cities on the main map, find the ones that aren't growing, and fix them so that they are growing again. Growth is good; cities not growing is bad. I think we can all understand this concept.

At the moment, I don't think that we're prepared for a war. That will change as more units are built, but immediately at least it would be a mistake to start a fight. Since all units cost us 1gpt, I suggest disbanding or upgrading our large numbers of warriors that serve essentially no purpose anymore (no military police in republic). Same for our scout. And I don't understand why we have 3 settlers sitting around doing nothing - are we really going to found any more cities sometime soon? Highly recommended that we merge those settlers into cities to increase their populations. It also might be a good idea to put some real defense in our cities, as opposed to having regular warriors defending them...

 

[Archer 007]

Preturn-760-Luxury tax lowered to 10%. Dover switched to aqueduct. Coventry switched to harbor. Fired entertainers for additional efficeinty.
Turn 1-770-Liverpool finishs marketplace, starts aqueduct.
Turn 2-780-Moved troops into position at border w/ Zulu for a future invasion.
Turn 3-790-Nothing happened here.
Turn 4-800-Made first contact w/ Egypt. Traded Theology for communications w/ Russians, Aztecs, Iroquois, world map and 36 gold. It's announced that Persia is also building the Art of War.
Turn 5-810-Nothing happened here.
Turn 6-820-Newcastle finishs courthouse, starts temple.
Turn 7-830-Discover Engineering, starting Invention. Dover finsihs aqueduct, starts library. Salamanca,Iroquois finish Colusssus. Zulu and Egypt are building Art of War.
Turn 8-840-Hastings finishs catherdal, starts barracks. Persia is building the Art of War.
Turn 9-850-Nothing happened here.
Turn 10-860- Dumb me, forgot about Art of War being comstructed, Hastings changed to Harbor. Oxford starts Knight. Aztecs building Art of War.

By accident, i hit enter at the end of my 10th turn, but i didnt do anything on that turn. Sorry about the mistake.

 

[Archer 007]

How do I upload the save, cause it says the file is too big.

 

[Sullla]

Zip the file using WinZip and upload it to the forum using the "upload file" button at the bottom of the page. A zipped save game will never exceed 100KB, and that's well within the range of what this forum's file server can handle (up to 3MB). Then create a link to the save game file using the http:// button. There are more specific instructions on how to upload files to the forum elsewhere on this site if you run into trouble. We can't play the next turn until you upload the save game, so please try to do it soon!

 

[Archer 007]

The save

Sullla, what had happened was that it was zipped but i tried to use attach feature, which has be severely weakened.

 

[hotrod0823]

I am back from vacation and will grab the game once it gets posted.

Hotrod

 

[hotrod0823]

Sul 5a from 870 AD

870 AD (0):Change Warwick from colosseum to Cathedral, adds 6 turns but I think a better value. Mines at start and finish at Norwich. Hurry temple for a quick culture fix at Hloban for 76 gold. Change Oxford from knight to cathedral, no barracks is in the city and with Sun 14 turns away a regular knight would be finished in 8, decided to wait. Upgrade spear to pike in Nottingham, London and York. Change York from Knight to pikeman. Many cities are only defended by warriors of not at all, will start building defensive pikes after the last of the knights complete. Would waste to many shields to switch them now. Increase research to 50%, invention in 3 with +25 gtp.

Establish the following embassies: Iroquois 54 gold, Russia 59 gold, Egypt 62 gold, Aztecs 74 gold. Iroquios are 66 turns from SunTzu. Egypt 54.

880 AD (1): York builds pike orders up another. Hlobane finishes temple start courthouse. Hurry courthouse in Leed for 92 gold, wont held with production yet but gold will get a boost.

890 AD (2): Sell maps for much cash, Iroquois pay 50 gold, Egypt, 6 gpt and 40 gold, Zulus 30 gold. Monty, Cleo, and Cathy all have Monotheism. No other trades. Canterbury and NOttingham finish knights and start on pikemen. Newcastle starts cathedral. Leeds finishs courthouse starts library. Change a few roman cities to courthouses and rush in Rome for 224 gold. Cumae for 196 gold. Will evaluate again to see if the rush was worth it. Begin moving settlers south to join a few cities not sure which ones yet. Reduced science to 40% and get invention in 1 with +70 gold. Upgrade spear in Cantebury. Hurry temple in Norwich for 64 gold.

900 AD (3): Learn invention and start on guns, due in 6 with +24 gold at 50%. Join settler into Nottingham. Disease strikes Leeds. Hurry Warwick catherdral for 176 gold. Cumae completes courthouse start temple, Rome ditto. York pike and starts another.

910 AD (4): Disease round 2 in Leeds. Some more worker movement, Warwick completes catherdral and starts catapult, Nowich changed to courthouse, fire entertainer. Guns due in 5 with +24 gold.

920 AD (5): York builds pike and start another. Ditto for Nottingham and Canterbury. Liverpool finishes aqueduct and starts harbor. Disease hits Leeds again . Settler joins canterbury. Some pike movement North and south. I realize now that gunmen are just around the corner but I think defence of these cities couldn't wait.

930 AD (6): Settler 3 joins Hastings. Pikes move again, disease at leeds again. Sunzu due in 8. I think we have a good shot at getting both.

940 AD (7): York builds pike and starts Leo's. Due in 30 turns. I don't think the others will even get there with the cascade. More worker movement.

950 AD (8): Reduce science to 20%, guns due next turn with +154 gold. More pikemovement, and worker actions.

960 AD (9): Guns researched We have 2 sources of Saltpeter hooked up and another by Canterbury. start on Education due in 5 turns at 50% with +22 gold.

970 AD (10): Upgrade 7 pikeman for 420 gold. Canterbury switched to musket.

We have 679 gold even after my spending spree. Upgrades, rush buys etc. .
Started Leo's at York, Sun is due in 4 turns. We are way ahead in tech, not a surprise, haven't sold contact to Zulu or Persia, Don't.

Diplo check: Persia lacks Engineering and all that follow, and Theo. and iron . Has only 7 gold and Monarchy
Zulu: Lacks Engineering, Theo and Chivalry. has 25 gold. He too lacks iron.
Iroquios: Have engineering but not theo, chivalry, or invention. has only 3 gold.
Russia: has theo and engineering but lacks chivalry and invention only 4 gold.
Egypt: Lacks invention, and chivalry, needs iron and horses and has 38 gold.

Okay, I spent a lot of money on improvements, upgrades, embassies and we still have 685 gold and +24 gold per turn. SunZu is due in 4 turns, 3 if you run low on food. Zulu and Persia don't have iron so no immortals or knights or pikemen. There are still a SOD by Leeds, I focused on defensive units but a war with Zulus would not be out of the question soonish. With the few courthouses I rushed it seemed to improve the production of those cities, recommend buying some more. Melding the settlers seemed to work out too.

Hotrod


Here is the save:







http://civfanatics.net/uploads2/sul5a_970AD.zip

 

[Sullla]

Hotrod's turn was well played, wisely deciding to use the gold that was coming in to rush needed city improvements across our territory. That's how you turn the commercial trait into a quanitifiable advantage, by turning the extra gold into research to get a tech edge or into the infrastructure development of your territory. There are only two things to address at the moment: 1) I would trade some outdated techs to someone to pick up Monarchy in the event that we need to fall back into it at some point and 2)we need to build the Forbidden Palace somewhere as soon as possible. Where to build it is up to you, but it needs to be started somewhere. We also have a decided military advantage over the other civs on our continent, but the decision of whether to go to war or not and when remains up to the team members.

Map:

 

[D-Tox]

quick question for you Sulla....on the topic of the Forbidden Palace.

In general, where do you look to put the FP? Not just this game, but for my other single player games I have going on, I have trouble deciding where the most effective spot to build the FP.

 

[hotrod0823]

My opinion on the FP is to the south to improve the once Roman cities. A FP in Cumae or Brighton will help the production of the southern cities. If we wait for war with Zulu or Persia it may not be soon enough to get a FP rolling. Also, moving the palace to the North later could be an option. As far as war I think if we dedicate more cities to building Knights or swords with guns along for the ride to fill in the new cities the Zulus are probably the easier of the 2 targets right now. I don't think a war is a good idea quite yet, we still have many cities to the north that could still be open for attack.

Hotrod

 

[Sullla]

Cumae or Brighton will take ages trying to build the Forbidden Palace. I would say there's virtually no chance to build it there without a leader. It would be a much better idea to build the FP in Canterbury (in 20 turns, as opposed to 60 further south) and then look to move the palace to the Intombe region in the future, possibly using a leader. But that's only a suggestion.

 

[Zed-F]

Another possbility would be to build the FP in Warwick or thereabouts. This would provide the most immediate benefit to the front line cities, and would enable any newly captured territory become productive quickly. Your southern cities would still benefit due to the disinclusion of the northern cities in the "closest to palace" list as they will instead be in the "closest to FP" list. You could still move the palace later if desired.

Ideally, you want lots of interior (i.e. high-shield) cities near your palace and FP. Your lands to the south are long and strung out, not ideal places for palace/FP due to mostly coastal cities and still having to deal with a fair amount of corruption due to distance.