SUL5a - Competing Succession Game Teams

[Wetterlind]

I second Zed-F. Warwick is a good spot to build our FP (if production there is fast enough). We are soon owner of Sun Tzu's and I think we should put it to good use, i.e. lots of warring. We are bound to get some leader(s) sooner or later. I think we should eventually move our capitol (closer) to cow-land. If we can secure this continent we will be unstoppable.

I'll get it tonight.

 

[hotrod0823]

Go for it after war with the zulu a Northern FP will be a good spot.


Hotrod

 

[Wetterlind]

Got it!
I'll report tomorrow.

 

[Wetterlind]

Inherited turn, 970 AD:
Switched Warwick off courthouse to FP (in 26). Also switched Norwich off courthouse. Norwich has <30% corruption and will be next door to the FP once it is built. The Courthouse there was due in 15. Changed to marketplace (due in 20) to combat unhappiness and poverty. Also recruited a tax collector there to make sure there will be no fuss in Norwich. By mistake I hurried a harbor in Coventry. Then I rearranged the laborers there to allow the city to grow. Also rearranged Dover to allow growth there too.

Turn 1, 980 AD:
Coventry completed harbor, started (after a die-roll) a library (in 40, change if you like). Started to move workers towards Canterbury, which is not growing. Those tiles need to be irrigated! Hurried a courthouse in Veii (and this time it wasn't an accident) for 196g. But I think there is no use in hurrying the courthouse in Antium - too cold, too isolated, too tiny.

Turn 2, 990 AD:
Veii completed courthouse, starts temple (complete in 30). Brighton built aqueduct, starts library (in 10). Moved our catapults closer to the front. Also sent units to relieve the vet. swords in the former Rome.

Turn 3, 1000 AD:
Lots of worker movement. Our clearing of jungle isn't optimal. We should clear around cities and rivers first, then the rest. Canterbury completed musket, starts another.

Turn 4, 1010 AD:
Education complete, starts Banking (in 6 at +28gpt) - a fast 5 banks and then Wall street is too good to ignore! Tzu Sun's complete in London (now Banking in 5 at -6gpt and 503g), starts knight. Hastings produced a courthouse, starts knight. Newcastle built a cathedral, it too starts knight. Reading riots. I hire a tax collector to calm the people (how on earth is that possible! ). Russians and Egyptians starts Sistine.

Turn 5, 1020 AD:

Turn 6, 1030 AD:
Zulu offers to change territory map. I agree. Oxford completes cathedras, starts university.

Turn 7, 1040 AD:
London completes knight (in 4), starts on another. Liverpool completes harbor, starts cathedral (in 23).

Turn 8, 1050 AD:
Damn! I have to learn to check for city growth. Why, oh why, isn't there an automatic alarm then a city risks disorder the next turn!? This time it was Norwich. Oh well, I changed the tax collector to a funny guy. I lowered taxes to 20% (7.2.1) and Banking is still in 1. That is +180gpt! Niiiice.

Turn 9, 1060 AD:
Banking complete, starts Music Theory (in 4 at +36gpt, taxes: 4.5.1) to be able to build JS Bach's wich will be good for all our soon-to-be conquered cities. Hastings built knight, starts bank (nr 1, complete in 12 turns). Cumae completes temple, starts harbor (in 20). London can once more grow! Canterbury too is growing again, although slowly.

Turn 10, 1070 AD:
Well, 1066 AD passed and nothing happened. Strange.

Nottingham completes cathedral, starts bank (nr. 2, complete in 10 turns). Newcastle completes knight, starts bank (nr. 3, in 13). Realized I forgot to rearrange the workforce in Liverpool. Now Liverpool will grow in 5. My fingers slipped and I moved a worker to the wrong spot between Warwick and Hlobane.

- I believe we are ready for war against the Zulu. If we strike fast and hard (cliché of what?), we can do it! We need to take Ulundi, Zimbabwe and Bapedi. Then they are beaten.
- Our catapults can't get through that jungle, it needs to be cleared.
- As usual I forgot to check our foreign affairs. I haven’t quite gotten into that trade thingy yet.
- I don't like the "build-up" of two Persian units close to Oxford...

The save file

 

[hotrod0823]

I am not sure if Bach's will still be around for us to grab. The cascade from Sistene's will probably take it but if Sistene's is built before any AI get Music Theory we may have a chance. I think we should prebuild for it with a Palace, any city outside of London with enough production to make it viable will work. After Bach's and Sistene's we could also go for Cop's if Bach's goes in the cascade.

Hotrod

 

[Sullla]

Commentary on the game: Do we want to attack Persia + Zululand now and wipe them off the continent, or do you want to continue building up our civ? We seem to be trying to pursue both goals at once now. For example, Nottinghan and Newcastle are building banks while London (which lacks both a bank and a university) cranks military. I suggest either switching over all of the core cities to military and attacking very soon or backing off and pushing more libraries/markets/banks/universities everywhere. It's your call, we can do either one easily.

As to wonders, keep in mind that if we build ones that have Commercial and Expansionist traits we will trigger a golden age (that's a good thing). Upcoming Commercial wonders include Smith's and Magellan while Expansionist wonders include Copernicus and Magellan. Note that just building Magellan's would trigger a golden age, so it may be worthwhile to do this. There's also always the option of attacking with our Man O'War too. But I say to remember to get wonders that will trigger our golden age (neither Bach's nor Leo's will help us in that regard).

And we still haven't picked up Monarchy from another civ for outdated techs. Please do it so that in the event that our republic ever collapses we don't have to fall back to despotism.

 

[Zarth]

got it

 

[Zarth]

0. 1070AD
I decide we should go to war now. The core cities will finish their current projects and then switch to building knights. We move our units into Zulu territory.

Shaka ask us to leave. We declare war.

1. 1080AD
I set Rome to marketplace. Hlobane finishes building a courthouse, it starts on an aquaduct.I switch Leeds to marketplace.
The war starts. Ngome captured. We capture Ulundi and we get a great leader. The victorious swordsmen is now known as Zarth.

2. 1090AD
Brighton finishes a library and starts on a marketplace. The war continuous.

3. 1100AD
We discover music theory, start on astronomy.

4. 1110AD
We capture Isandhlwana.

5. 1120AD
We capture Intombe, I decide to build the forbiiden palace here. Great leader Edward starts moving towards Intombe.
6 swordsmen and 7 knights move towards Zimbabwe

6. 1130AD
Forbidden palace hurried.

7. 1140AD
Zimbabwe captured

8. 1150AD
We discover astronomy, start on economics.

9. 1160AD
Our units remain in Zimbabwe to heal.

10. 1170AD
Our next target is Bapedi. I move our units towards that city.

 

[Zarth]

A screenshot of our empire:

Here is the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/sul5a-1170AD.zip

 

[Sullla]

Comments for Zarth:

Your declaration of war was highly dishonorable. I know here on Warlord it doesn't matter much, but your reputation can mean the difference between victory and defeat on the higher levels. You moved into Zulu territory and then declared war when he asked you move. The game treats this as the equivalent of a ROP betrayal in terms of reputation. It probably shouldn't, but it does. Instead, make sure to declare war first, THEN move into enemy territory. You suffer no reputation hit from doing this.

Look at how the units are lined up to attack Bapedi. You are clearly planning to attack across a river there, which adds a 25% bonus to the defender. Since there's no reason to do that, this is just foolishness. I forgot just how pathetic the Warlord AI is, it looks like just rolling over the whole world with cavs would be a cakewalk. That will be something for you guys to consider.

Intombe is an alright place for the FP, although it might have been better placed further north. I have no complaints over it though. I'm not entirely sure why we're researching Economics though; do we really need to get Smith's? Wouldn't it make better sense to research towards Military Tradition and turn those knights into cavs? I presume that we are going for Persia relatively soon. We don't need the income from Smith's, and the only real thing it would contribute is a wonder towards our golden age. As always, set a goal with your research and drive towards it. Don't just research something aimlessly.

D-Tox is up next, with archer_007 on deck.

 

[Wetterlind]

Humm... I think I'm learning something here: to have a plan.

I think that is what Sullla is trying to tell us. I've always wanted to do everything at once. That is fine on Chieftain level... but Sullla been playing Deity. Oh yeah, I tried that too: I got my ass kicked by two barbs - they sent 3 warriors, 1 settler, 1 archer and 2 spears to my ancestors hunting grounds, then looted my capital and destroyed my almost-complete backup archer. I guess the Germans did the only right thing and simply walked into my 3 by now unprotected cities. (Ok, I had 1 warrior left. But hey, did it matter? Nooo.)

 

[Zarth]

I wasn't planning to attack across the river. I was waiting for our knights to move to the forest square SW of Bapedi. From there I planned to move the knights east and then attack.

 

[D-Tox]

Got it

 

[D-Tox]

Hate to say this, but I lost my writeup Played my turn, and since the forum was down for awhile, I left my computer running and notepad open. Then the power decided to go out and I never saved the writeup.

The important stuff, from what I remember:

-Zulus are eliminated...we lost 2 elite and 1 vet cav in the process. We didn't get any leaders.

-We got Monarchy finally...had to give up contact with the Persians, though, because Persia wanted Iron for it.

-There's about 12 cav and a few swordsmen fortified near Bapedi, and another 4-5 at the Persian southern borders. Not sure if we're ready to attack them, but we should be soon.

-I accidentally played an extra turn :/

Here's a screenshot of our land:

saved game - 1265AD

 

[Sullla]

Notice that we can lower the science slider back 10%, not lose any turns of research, and gain an additional 90gpt. That's a lot of money! D-Tox, you incorrectly said that we had cavalry in your short summary; I'd like to point out to the team that that is not the case. We still only have knights, though we are certainly getting close.

The situation of Persia is just sad. They have no iron (the one in their territory moved) and so the best defender they have is spears. We will have cavalry very shortly (I presume we are going to research Military Tradition next, right?) Cavalry versus spears is a joke. Upgrade all our knights to cavs and crush Xerxes to put him out of his misery. From that point, it will be decision time for the team as to whether to go for diplo/space or conquest/domination victory type. But control of our continent needs to come first no matter what, and you're never going to see as big of an advantage as this again outside of Chieftan difficulty.

This game's in the bag, the only question will be how you guys want to win it. archer_007 is up, hotrod0823 is on deck.

 

[hotrod0823]

good luck to you all while I am away I will be returning on Wednesday. Skip me until then.

Hotrod

 

[Archer 007]

Got it.

 

[Wetterlind]

Mouahahaha.. our soon-to-be-discovered cavs are gonna' kick some major X behind!!!
(Sudden power-rush of evil world-conquerism)

 

[Archer 007]

Turn 1-1270- Canterbury finishs Courthouse and starts Bank. Activate troops and invade Persia. 3 workers captured.
Turn 2-1275- Veii builds Temple, starts Musketman. Finishs Metegully and starts Military Tradition (so we can get Calvary). Pasargadae, Tarsus, and Bactra are captured.
Turn 3-1280- Contiuned attack.
Turn 4-1285- Persians retake Pasargadae. We take Susa.
Turn 5-1290- More battling.
Turn 6-1295- Capture Pasargadae.
Turn 7-1300- Military Tradition discovered. Physics started.
Turn 8-1305- Capture Persepolis and Tyre.
Turn 9-1310- Offer Persia a peace treaty. They will not pay enough.
Turn 10-1315- Healing units.

We are at a peak of sorts. We are prepared to lay siege to Arbela, Gordium, and Sardis.

http://www.civfanatics.com/uploads2/sul5a-1315AD.zip

 

[Sullla]

Archer_007, what did you do on your turn?! I'm not sure what happened, but things have been seriously screwed up in just 10 turns. I didn't think it was possible for us to screw up a war on Warlord difficulty with cavs against spears, but it seems you managed to find a way to do it.

Issue #1: You declare war immediately. Why? This was a very foolish decision. We haven't even begun to integrate the Zulu territory into our empire yet and are still several turns away from Military Tradition. The idea here was to get cavalry, upgrade our knights en masse to them, and then crush the incredibly weak and poor Persians. But instead you struck out right away with just knights, with our civ not yet recovered from the last war, and did so with no kind of plan in mind. We were about 10-15 turns away from war to set it up properly. This was major .

Issue #2: Extremely poor conduct of the war. Despite an overwhelming technological and production advantage, we captured only a handful of cities. And the Persians even managed to take Pasargadae back from us! That should never be happening. Just look at this current map:

Where is the concentrated stack of units that will methodically move through the Persian cities, capturing each one and quelling resistance in turn? There is none. Instead of projecting all our power at one concentrated point, we have units in one and twos spread out everywhere with no force whatsoever. The sheer lack of strategy here is appalling. Frontline cities that we have just captured are sitting completely undefended! Are you ASKING for Xerxes to take them back? Come on, think a little here! All of the Persian cities are crammed full of resistors too. Why are they not being starved down to size, or at least quelled? We're just pleading for culture flips to happen.

Gordium is being attacked by... 1 cavarly. Arbela is under assault from... 1 cav. 3 elite knights are about to attack Sardis ACROSS a river. Are you people listening to what I say at all? Didn't I make the exact same comments about the war against Rome: attack with a concentrated stack of units, move methodically from city to city, etc. And while our borderline cities sit exposed to easy capture, we have three swords doing noting in Intombe, extra defensive units in Leeds and Bapedi, a knight not upgraded to cavalry doing nothing in Isandhlwana. Our war weariness is reaching very high levels, and the luxury tax is still set at only 10%? The whole game is reeking of poor gameplay at this point.

Archer_007, I'm not trying to offend you in any way, simply to point out the (numerous) poor strategic decisions you made during your turn. I suggest that the next player make peace immediately and clean up the mess that has been made. We definitely need 20 turns to reorganize and build up a competent attack force before doing any more fighting. And please try to listen to my advice somewhat when fighting a war. I'd like to feel that this game serves a purpose, and when I see the same errors again and again in the conduct of wars it doesn't come across that way.

By the way, the link is incorrect for the game above, I had to fish the save out of the uploads folder. Here is a correct link:

SUL5a 1315AD

Since hotrod0823 is away, Wetterlind is up next and Zarth is on deck.