SUL5b - Competing Succession Game Teams

Sullla

Patrician Roman Dictator
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
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Location
Baltimore MD
This is the thread for the "B" team. The roster is as follows:

VinCaiden
BoBtheBUILDER
Infoman
stwils
mcdan
Advisor: Padma

Game Specifications
English Civ (Commercial and Expansionist)
Warlord Difficulty
7 AI opponents
Standard-sized Map
70% water Continents landmass
Random Climate
Restless Barbarians
Default Rules, but AI Respawn and Culturally-Linked Starting Positions are Off

Rules
- The first player plays 20 turns, after that all players play 10-turn rounds.
- 24 hours to post an "I got it" message then 48 hours to play the game. If you need to drop from the game or will be away, please let the other people on your team know so they can work around it.
- No worker automations; you will do better without them anyway! Exception can be made for pollution cleanup in the end game.
- No long goto orders, since the next player will have no idea where the unit is going.
- No Right of Passage (ROP) abuses, like signing one to attack another civ. That's off the table.
- No signing deals with the intention of not honoring them (example: get 4 techs for 100gpt then declare war to avoid paying it)
- If you sign a peace treaty for 20 turns, it must be honored. No stabbing AI civs in the back.
- "Winning" is based losely on score; this isn't the kind of competition where one group really wins or loses, but we will determine it by score nonetheless. No "sandbagging" on a victory though just to get more points; this is not a competition to see who can milk score better. No keeping one AI city alive to delay conquest victory, intentionally not launching the spaceship, etc.
- No reading the other team(s)'s thread! Period. When the game is finished, the advisor will post a "game complete" message in this thread.

Here is a map of the starting position:



The save file can be found here:

SUL5 4000BC

VinCaiden is up in this game; Team A players should look only at their respective thread. Best of luck to all!

EDIT: Removed the "All discussions should take place in this thread" message that was mistakenly copied from the actual main thread.
 
Hello Team B!

We are the best!

I read a bit of Sulla's English game that he referred us all to. I saw he activated his Scout to move first. Would that be good for us, instead of waiting for the settler to "settle" and the worker to "work?"

My experience with the English is only a little of playing Civ1 on "earth" and that was a tiny island and I had to rush for Map Making and explore with "Triremes."

That is not the case here. We have a much larger continent.

Here's to us. :beer:

stwils
 
Got it! I'll try playing today or tomorrow. I've never been first up in an SG before, so I'm going to do some mental preperation for this.

@stwils: I usually try to use the scout to get a better idea of the lay of the land before I plant my city. I'll probably use him to top that mountain to the SE so we can see further. I have to check and see the the threads about popping settlers though... I think if we've got an active settler I won't get a settler out of the hut. Like I said... research is needed! :)
 
Sulla...

You may want to edit the announcements in the subthreads. The announcement in this thread points people to this thread as a general announcement thread. My assumption was the Anyone want to join a succession game thread? was going to be the gen. announce thread.
 
I think Bob, you are right. If we have a settler unsettled we will not pop one out of the hut.

Glad you are going forward with the game.

stwils
 
Okay, then. How about:

BoBtheBUILDER
VinCaiden
Infoman
stwils
mcdan

for the order? :D

You're right. If you have a settler, you will not get one from a goody hut.

And Sullla better not be reading this thread to see the request for a change to the first post. :D We're not supposed to read Team A's thread, either. (I'll talk to him about it, though. :) )
 
(1) 4000 BC
I really hate this starting position from a strategic standpoint. We're literally in a river valley so that if we should face an early aggressor we're not going to have a great defense at this city. On the other hand we have lots of luxes, fresh water and two bonus grasslands to work with as well.

I decide to start with my scout and move him due south to the hills. I know I won't pop a settler from the goody hut if I have an active settler. It probably won't matter because from my research it seems you have to have less cities than the other civs as well in order to pop a settler from a hut, so this is probably all academic anyway. However, by moving to the hills two tiles south I can at least get a better lay of the land. I'll move the worker to the bonus grassland to the NW to see what awaits us over there. Here's what they find:



I guess this is what starting things off is all about. I decide, given the info available to me, to settle on our starting location. It's a tactical nightmare from a defenseive standpoint, but it has good growth potental. I start working the BG S of London and we begin to train a warrior (ready in 5 turns). Another bonus that I didn't think of... building a city along the river, along with the commercial trait, gives us more gold (I think).

I'm going to make another executive decision here which may or may not be a happy one for everyone. I start us researching writing (rather than The Wheel or Bronze Working, my two typical favorites for the first tech). My reasoning is as follows: our unique unit is Man-of-War, we're on a map with continents and our commercial trait would reduce corruption in far away cities. In ct3 we're discovering the value of having the great lighthouse early so that you can park your galleys on sea squares, I'm thinking that brokering contacts and techs between civs on the two or three continents could help us later on, so I'm planning on siting our second city on the coast and building the lighthouse there as soon as possible.

I set the science slider to 80% so that when we do pick up an extra gold when the road is completed we'll be researching at 1gpt still. Here's how things look at the end of the first turn:



(2) 3950 BC
Okay, checking the top five cities I find out that our competition includes but is not limited to the Iroquois, Russians, Zulus and Romans. I would expect, given our culture group, that the French and maybe the Greeks are in there as well.

I decide to pop the hut... the Valdal tribe teaches us Warrior Code. I don't discover much else about the countryside, other than there are plains and desert tiles all over the place to the east. I have our worker start a mine on his tile to the NW. I make an odd discovery messing with the science slider... we get Writing in the same amount of time with two coins going to science as we do with one. I dial down the slider to min science (20%) giving us 2gpt.

(3) 3900 BC
Our scout continues to move NE to see what's to our immedate north. He finds nothing exciting.

(4) 3850 BC
I move the scout N then NW to the hill tile to see what he might discover. Besides jungle along the river to the N there is a wheat tile on a coastline next to a bonus grassland. I'm thinking that hill tile on the coast may be a good location for city #2 now. Also noted that the Persians are on the top five cities list now as well (not the Greeks as I suspected).

(5) 3800 BC
I move the scout N then NW to another hill tile. He finds more jungle and the edge of a water tile. At this point I can't say if it's a coastline or a river though. It's an odd shape.

(6) 3750 BC
Now that our warrior completes his training I fortify him and start a scout. London will grow in another five turns. I change the tile worked to the tile that is being improved so that we take full advantage of the mine when it's ready.

I'm starting to suspect that this map is like that God-awful RBE map that Sirian designed that put premium points on building a great lighthouse. That water tile turned out to be a pond when I moved the scout W to the mountain tile. I hope the same isn't true with our other coasts. I'll have to explore over there quickly.

(7) 3700 BC
I move our scout S then W to get the most range out of him (other tiles would have consumed his range with one move).

(8) 3650 BC
Our worker completes his mine and starts a road. I move our scout SW, then W to see what I can find on the other side of the river. It looks like there is an end to this jungle after all! For ease of reference I'm going to name this scout Sir Walter Raleigh in order to make it easier to distinguish from our next scout due soon, whom I'll call Drake.

(9) 3600 BC
Neat! Wally moves SW then to the hill tile SE and discovers that it is in fact a coastline we've found. Yay!

(10) 3550 BC
Okay, Drake (ya gotta love the Drake!) is ready to explore. Now I've got an interesting question. London will grow next turn. Ten turns from settle to first growth. Ten turns from settle to second growth. If I change production to training a settler then I'm out one turn of production because London won't be big enough to support sending a settler till the following turn. I guess that doesn't matter though because we'll be picking up a shield anyway and there will be even more production lost. I'm going to set it to warrior for now, that way the settler will have an escort when it's done and we don't lose any production. With production increase that comes with city growth the warrior will be done in 3 turns, not four as it says now. That will leave us with eight turns before the city grows large enough to send a settler. At 30 shields it'll take 8 turns at 4spt to complete the settler at an overage of 2 shields (which may be absorbed by additional production from a mine). I think this strategy will work best.

I decide to send Drake up NE to investigate the possible coastline and see if we can figure out if we have any neighbors that way. Wally will stick to the SW coast and see what he can find there.

(11) 3500 BC
Big year infrastructure wise! Our worker finishes the road, Londons borders expand and it grows! Wow-e-wow! I check London and set our new citizen to work the BG tile N of the tile we just improved so that our road and mine will take effect immediately.

I move our worker N to start on a road (so we don't waste extra shields with added production). Wally continues to slug through hills and jungle down south while Drake makes a move to the E and discovers that we do in fact have a coastline to the NE as well!

(12) 3450 BC
Worker starts road. Wally moves along coast. Drake moves north. I experiment some more with the slider and find that no matter what we do, it still takes the same amount of time to research Writing, so I leave it at 20%.

(13) 3400 BC
London completes training it's warrior and I set it to producing a settler. Wally moves along the coast and discovers a river delta while Drake moves to a hill on his coast.

(14) 3350 BC
Our scouts continue their coastal explorations

(15) 3300 BC
Our worker finishes his road and begins a mine. Wally moves along the coast into a forest and Drake starts slogging through the jungle to the north.

(16) 3250 BC
Our scouts continue coastal exploration. Wally discovers (I think) diamonds to the south.

(17) 3200 BC
The are diamonds! Whohoo!

(18) 3150 BC
Not only are there diamonds, but there are two tiles of them. Drake finds silks in our northern jungles. No neighbors yet! :(

(19) 3100 BC
Well, Drake's silks seem to be on a jungle-ridden peninsula, but there looks to be grassland across the water from the peninsula, so I'm going to send him to check that out. Wally found a wierd kind of choke-point formation.

(20) 3050 BC
No one came off the top five city list prematurely, so it looks like we're all getting our growth at the same rate (no grasslands in floodplains or anything like that for the AI it would seem). Whoot! Wally finds the Romans! It is a choke and the Romans have LITERALLY no where to go. That may be a positive thing for us down the line. Caesar starts off cautious. He doesn't have any techs that we don't have, though he lacks Pottery. He seems to be on max science (he only has 10gp) and they do have furs connected, though none extra.

Conclusion
Man, not a whole lot to tell, those 20 turns went quick! I think we should leave that scout in place and let our next scout flesh out the rest of the area SE of London. Our priorities should be to explore west of London as well. I feel like that's probably where our next neighbor will be coming from. Here's a map of where we're at.



I also put together a rudimentry dot map so we can start discussing city locations. Orange dots are potential city sites and I numbered them in what I would consider my priorities. My philosiphy is to expand toward your immediate neighbors to maximize the area your culture can dominate.



My reasoning for the first dot placement is to get the whales. I realize if we go with these placements we're going to skip tiles like the incense two tiles south of London and the forest two tiles east of potential city 1. But this is just an idea and I'm sure everyone else will have an opinion on this as well.

Here's the save (zipped):

SUL5b 3050BC
 
Sorry I have not posted since Friday. I have a big deadline tomorrow at work (Tuesday) but I should be ready by Tuesday night to get playing. I have added the patch. Good luck everyone.
 
Looks like a good beginning for us, Bob. And as always, your logs are such fun to read.

stwils
 
Well, I was going to say something earlier, but I got caught by the infamous "21:00 GMT Server Busy" routine. :D

(BTW it's tough to not treat this like a Training Day Game, but that's the rules we're playing under. :) )

A couple of thoughts:

England is an Expansionist Civ. We're playing on Warlord, Standard map, 7 opponents, and Restless Barbarians. Did we need a Warrior before the first Scout? Probably not, but also not a major gripe as you built a Scout next.

Good use of the Science slider. No sense spending more than we have to for things.

The Scout down at the Roman chokepoint: this came up in thread "A", and Sullla asked me to mention it here. "Bottling up" the Romans by holding the chokepoint is a slimy, dastardly tactic. But it's not exploitive, so it is allowed.

Also, (and you may not have thought of this, yet :) ), no buying of workers from other Civs until we have an embassy with them. This is just to keep the balance a little better. Team A is under the same restriction.

Very good start, on the whole.

I believe VinCaiden is up next.

:D
 
Okay, it's been more than 24 hours since BoB posted the save. If VinCaiden doesn't grab it by the time you're ready to play, Infoman, go ahead and take it. In that case, I will slide him to the end/beginning of the roster where he started. :D

BTW, have you all noticed we are losing the "postcount war" with Team A? They are on the second page of posts already! One of the fun things about these "competition games" is keeping the other team(s) guessing as to what we're doing and how fast we're doing it. From their point of view, we are probably seen as stalling out. You guys need to check this thread and post in it, so we at least "look" like we're making progress. :D

Based on the PM I got from Sullla (see previous post) it sounds like they are having some good discussions over there. We need to get the same kind of discussions here. I am not going to give step-by-step guidance in this game; you will need to work out things for yourselves. I will be here to give a wink, or a nudge, or even a flat-out "NO!" as the situation warrants, but you will need to do discussion and decision-making as a team!

For instance, BoB said, "Our priorities should be to explore west of London as well. I feel like that's probably where our next neighbor will be coming from." Do you all agree with that? Maybe someone wants to explore more to the East. Make your voices heard! (Note: I know as much about the map as you do. :p )

Anyway, let's hear some chatter and some team-building out there!

:D
 
Sorry, I never got the first play cause I didn't know about this thread and I almost never noticed it today, so I guess I can take this game now. How long is it to finish my 10 turns? Thanks Bob on the good start. I kinda like the start position. It's not like we're going to be attacked alot by the AI on warlord. I'll get to this when I get home this afternoon. It's 2:15 in Newfoundland. Hopefully I'll get the zip back up for Wednesday but it might be thursday.
 
Vin,

As noted in the initial post of the thread - 24 hrs for a "got it" message (like you just gave) and then 48 hrs to play. So Thursday will be fine.

But don't feel you can't give hints, or screenshots, before Thursday! :D

And if you run into anything you want the team's opinion about, or anything, just bring yourself back here and ask!
 
I would check up with your opinions but I don't get much Internet time so I probably won't do that too much. But yeah, I'll start playing this afternoon
 
C'mon guys... lets get some input... you guys were posting like maniacs before. We need to figure out, as a group, what our goals are going to be. Would you put cities where I suggested? Would you place them in the order I suggested? Why or why not?
 
Padma, Team A may be "talking" more. I can see the number of posts there is way ahead of ours.

However, there is no way for us to measure the quality of their talk.:lol:

I think Bob has gotten us off to a good start.

This train will begin to move...

stwils:)
 
Backing up my call on the warrior...

I've been burned on several recent games (even at warlord) where neglecting any defense (even minimal) wound up biting me in the butt. I'll be escorting any settlers with a unit to be sure to dissuage any attacks.

BoB
 
Quote by Padma:

For instance, BoB said, "Our priorities should be to explore west of London as well. I feel like that's probably where our next neighbor will be coming from." Do you all agree with that? Maybe someone wants to explore more to the East. Make your voices heard! (Note: I know as much about the map as you do. :p )

:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Reply: I agree with B the B - let's explore West of London. Am playing Bob's game now and will post additional comments after I have finished.

Great beginning Bob!:)
 
Originally posted by BoBtheBUILDER
Backing up my call on the warrior...

I've been burned on several recent games (even at warlord) where neglecting any defense (even minimal) wound up biting me in the butt. I'll be escorting any settlers with a unit to be sure to dissuage any attacks.

BoB

Yes! I agree - escort all settlers - no matter how small a defense they can definately take a bite!
 
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