Sulla's Civilization IV Walkthrough

The horror! Part 4 is 5 minutes late!!!!!

So I'm in a rut. My order is "being processed" at Amazon right now. (Of course, they charge my credit card two days before shipping...)
 
Oops, double post.

Edit: On the plus side, he took my suggestion to add links to parts two and three. :)
 
The Caltrop said:
10 minutes now... :(

Oh where is Sullla? :cry:
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I just got an email from Gandhi apparently he built the Manhatten Project and we'll Sulla and his civilization are no more........ :D
 
ManiacMarshall: The natives are getting restless. If you don't get part 4 up soon your workers might have to hook up some lux to keep em happy :-P. I, however, am going to bed and will read it tomorrow :-D

Sulla: I'm in the midst of a Civ4 MP game, they can wait a few more minutes :-)

Shouldn't be long

- Maniac
 
The Caltrop said:
A few more minutes? More like 90 more... :crazyeye:

I'm too obsessed.
Click to expand...

Actually instead of few more minutes we should read that as one more turn...which means everyone needs to go to bed ...or back to their own Civ IV game.
 
Sorry guys, I was involved in a dynamite MP game tonight that lasted longer than expected. I intend to write up a summary of that as well for my website soon (possibly tomorrow if all goes well). Anyway, Part Four has been posted! I'll see if I can go through some of your questions tomorrow. (It's after 2am?! :sleep: )
 
Aussie_Lurker said:
Ouch, Sirian, no need to get angry with me :( ! Well, I assume you are getting angry with me, 'cause you sound it. Like I said in my earlier post-I ADMIT that my views are based on 3rd-hand experience at best, perhaps I will change my mind when I play the game. I am curious though, if a free engineer from pyramids is sooo powerful, then how come Great Library grants-is it 1 or 2?-free scientists? Wouldn't this make Great Library too overpowered. Like I said, it was the GL effect which influenced my thoughts on what a good effect for pyramids-in both gameplay and realism terms-would be.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Click to expand...

I'm not angry. I know you're excited about the game! I am, too.

The balance issue is specific to Great Engineers. You can't get more than one regular Engineer at a time in a city until you get all the way forward to factories or Ironworks national wonder. That is a deliberate design choice. The ability of the Great Engineer to rush an entire wonder on the spot is very powerful. Too powerful to turn loose willy nilly without breaking the game. (How did we come to this conclusion? I can't say, but maybe you can add it up for yourself if you think it through from the logical starting point.)

A player literally has to avoid popping many of the other great leader types to get a Great Engineer or two in the early game. That's doable, but it takes dilligence. (Have to go for Metal Casting quickly, then run a single Engineer for a long time, nonstop, in one or two cities, without "getting ahead" of their pace with other great leader types in other cities -- otherwise you just keep moving the goalposts and you never do get an Engineer!)

Later in the game, the lid comes off with Factories and you can get lots of Engineers in the late game -- BUT then they often no longer rush a complete (very costly) wonder by themselves and you need two or you have to build part of the wonder manually -- AND you can't rush Projects.

Changing anything in the early game can ripple all the way through the game.

That's not necessarily bad. There are many ways that Civ could be done well, and the things we settled on are only one of them. Some mod things could be fun just to try, whether or not they work out as intended. I'm sure the Pyramids as you envision them could be fun for you or for me -- but I am used to examining more than that. I have to look a bit wider, to how a game balance question would be answered in MP, or on high difficulty in the hands of the AI, or in the hands of players hungry for any advantage they can get and ready to identify, exploit and publicize a major rift in the game balance.

The Great Library will give you more research and get you more leaders, but they won't be Engineers. The Scientists could be used for any number of things, but they won't give you a free Great Wonder of your choice!

The Pyramids were a fancy burial mound -- really REALLY big ones designed to support the beliefs (and egos) of the leaders of Egypt at the time. Any effects given to them in the game are going to be ahistorical -- almost everything in the game is ahistorical from a purist standpoint. It's the only wonder in Civ4 that opens up late game Civic choices earlier in the game. I think that's kind of cool!


- Sirian
 
Hi Sulla!

So first off I want to say I have learned so many things by reading your guide and understanding your strategies.

Out of everything you did in your guide, there is only two things you did that I don't understand your reasons for doing. Why did you keep Hastings and York? I thought that with the higher matience costs of Civ4, you would have razed them due to their lack of usefulness (being in such unproductive lands)

And I know you wanted to take out Elizabeth but why did you settle Najran/ use a culture bomb in the sourthern unproductive lands (instead of expanding north). It seems you could have take out Elizabeth without Najran by attacking from your orginal borders and settled Najran in a more fruitful spot north before the AI claims it.

Thanks alot!

Oh and don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to tell how to play at all! I'm just trying to learn from a seasoned beta tester why you did what you did! :)
 
having read part 4 just now, I have a few remarks or questionmarks about the game.

1. flips are really back, maybe not an immedtiate flip, but nevertheless, they are back. does that also mean, if you capture a core city from a cultures-strong civ, that it would revolt sooner or later and flip? does sound like it.

2. culture bombs: seem too powerful to me, maybe could be softened, if the AI knows how to use them. Do they use this tool?

3. war: you can now actually see the amount and type of enemies in a city. like spies for free. artillery seems again way powerful, just as a combo or arty/Cav or tanks could shred any town in Civ3.
again, is the AI capable of launching the same intelligent assaults?

Overall, I am a little concerned that the depth in decision making will be too much for the AI. Maybe you could enlighten me, Sullla.

By the way, it's an excellent write-up
 
Hurray! Sorry I was so impacient Sullla, I was just rather excited!Even more so now with the prospect of 'overseas colonisation'... :)

1-So, you seem to have a lot fewer cities in 4 than you would in civ 3 by AD 430 . Other than the penalty imposed for having cities, why are there so few settlements in your possession?

2-Catapults are in danger of return-fire now?

3-How is it that upon conquering York, you have full culture-borders, but when you ake London, its borders are 1x1?

4-Great People seem... pleasant.

5-You razed Nottingham, the Confucian holy city. Two questions:
5a: Does that automatically make Confucianism dead? Or, can a religion carry on without its holy city? Is it advantagous to destroy an enemy-religion's holy city (to reduce income of an enemy civ/stunt that religion's growth)?
5b: If it dies (by the conquest or in general) can it restore itself? Or is a religion dead permanenetly in the game once crushed?

6-You seem to be encouraging a multi-religious state... Is it good to have multiple religions in your empire? Only if they are all founded by you? I'm still trying to understand the whole dynamic religions bring to Civ 4...

7-Do civs still have that silly obsession with colnising every nook and cranny of the world?

8-Do leaders remember things permenantly? By which I mean; if you did not defeat England, would Victoria eventually forget her grievances?
 
@Sirian. Well, in that case, what about 2 free 'Citizen' Specialists (or +1 per city)? Basically, your city gets the equivalent of +2 hammers, without sacrificing food AND with no danger of unbalancing the Great Engineer side of the game. Combined with the +2 Great engineer points and culture, I think this would be quite balanced AND is, IMO, one of the most historical representations of the Pyramids effects.

@Sullla. Noticed how you mention the danger of having 'homogeneous' stacks, but then you sent out a pretty homogeneous stack of elephants and cats. Did you only do this because you were pretty CERTAIN that Vicky was stuffed? ;) Would have loved it if she had a suprise up her sleeve :)! Fantastic walkthrough, I am TRULY loving it :)!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
@ThERat. For my part, though I would prefer a good 'secession' model ;), I don't have a problem with culture flips being in the game-given the refinements they have made (i.e. not random and no losing your units). If Vicky had been SMART, then she would have called Sulla up and offered him the city in return for some kind of 'consideration'-or gifted it to him because it wasn't worth anything to her any more (just a liability). I have heard stories of the AI taking such initiative.
As for Culture Bombs, it should be pointed out that, with fewer cities and the multiple uses of Great People, I get a very strong sense that culture bombs are not as powerful as you might think. All you need to do is see how LONG it has taken him to produce just 1 of these guys (around 150AD was it?) Thats a long time between drinks, as they say. Given that he might want to join a great artist to a city as a super specialist, or use it to gain a tech OR use it as part of a golden age, I wouldn't be suprised if he only used culture bombs a few more times in this game (at a guess!)
As for siege weapons, given the fact they can be killed in combat-and given that they are usually a darned sight weaker than other units of their age-I don't think they are too overpowered. Also, as Sullla himself said, if Vicky had had long bows or mounted units, his Cats would have been toast. It really does sound like there are no true 'uber-units' in the game. I do agree with you, though, that I would prefer it if you didn't automatically find out what units were in an enemy city-you should only be able to discover that info if you can 'look inside' their cities. But that is just IMO. Anyway, I look forward to seeing what Sullla has to say on all these matters (or Sirian :)!)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
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