Sunday's PAX talk (with summary of the info)

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Third, it would make no sense, Civ has always been diverse, no reason to include what a 4th European Civ (5th if you count Spain?)

 

[GenjiKhan]

There should be standards to adopt . People are suggesting civs that won't be the 9th one for some reason or another . One of these standards might be:

- With 3 European Civs(4 if you include Byzantines),the 9th civ won't be European;
- With only 2 new playable civs,that have never these chance before in other civilizations(Huns and Austria),the 9th civ won't come from Other Civilizations;
- Civs that has one their cities as an city-state already confirmed won't be the 9th civ;


If you want a civilization that meet these standards,go suggest them in this thread instead:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=433030

 

[Omega124]

- With only 2 new playable civs,that have never these chance before in other civilizations(Huns and Austria),the 9th civ won't come from Other Civilizations;

Well, not entirely true. The Austrians were included as a secret civ in the last expansion of the third game. You couldn't normally acess them; you had to mess with the game files to unlock them, but they were there in the files.

 

[JFD]

Third, it would make no sense, Civ has always been diverse, no reason to include what a 4th European Civ (5th if you count Spain?)

I don't see why one must look at it in that way. It should be down to who can offer the most unique of playstyles, whilst maintaining a level of recognisability. It's unfair to Sweden and fans of Sweden to dismiss its inclusion based upon its geographical and cultural location. I can't imagine that Firaxis would look at it any other way. Sure, I'd like to see the Majapahit, or Tibet, or, especially, Morrocco, because I feel they were valueable contributers to the history of their region, but it is quite unfair to dismiss the speculations of those who want another civ which just happens to be in Europe - because it is simply that: speculation. The last civ has already been decided; people stating that "Europe is already overrepresented" and that "it makes no sense" to include another isn't going to change what the actual last civ is, so it just seems unnecessarily mean to shoot down the suggestions of Sweden, or Poland, or other European civs just because they are European, whilst the discussion over the Majapahit, the Sioux, or any other non-European civ are subject to fair discussions. Let people have their speculation, or their desires, even if it includes another European civ. Its just a game after all: if Sweden were included, that doesn't necessarily make it any better, historically or nationally, than any other civ that wasn't included.

With that in mind, the Zulu is at the top of my list of who I suspect to be the last civ; Sweden just has the highest chance of the remaining European powers, I believe, considering that others like Poland and Portugal have been confirmed as City-States.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I don't see why one must look at it in that way. It should be down to who can offer the most unique of playstyles, whilst maintaining a level of recognisability. It's unfair to Sweden and fans of Sweden to dismiss its inclusion based upon its geographical and cultural location. I can't imagine that Firaxis would look at it any other way. Sure, I'd like to see the Majapahit, or Tibet, or, especially, Morrocco, because I feel they were valueable contributers to the history of their region, but it is quite unfair to dismiss the speculations of those who want another civ which just happens to be in Europe - because it is simply that: speculation. The last civ has already been decided; people stating that "Europe is already overrepresented" and that "it makes no sense" to include another isn't going to change what the actual last civ is, so it just seems unnecessarily mean to shoot down the suggestions of Sweden, or Poland, or other European civs just because they are European, whilst the discussion over the Majapahit, the Sioux, or any other non-European civ are subject to fair discussions. Let people have their speculation, or their desires, even if it includes another European civ. Its just a game after all: if Sweden were included, that doesn't necessarily make it any better, historically or nationally, than any other civ that wasn't included.

With that in mind, the Zulu is at the top of my list of who I suspect to be the last civ; Sweden just has the highest chance of the remaining European powers, I believe, considering that others like Poland and Portugal have been confirmed as City-States.

I have no problem with Sweden being included, but I just don't think they should include it in God and Kigns, maybe as DLC. But there's just too many European Nations, and I want an American or Asian civilization.

 

[JFD]

I have no problem with Sweden being included, but I just don't think they should include it in God and Kigns, maybe as DLC. But there's just too many European Nations, and I want an American or Asian civilization.

I champion for Sweden because I don't think they'd be included in a DLC - they do not have the same potential to sell as someone like Portugal or the Zulu. The opportunity for them is now, because of the scenario. If I'm wrong, I'd gladly step aside, and join the support for a non-European civ. It is not that I support the overrepresentation of Europe, its just a lot of people seem to argue against another European civ based upon that overrepresentation. I think, though, that the Tibetan Empire would make a very good civ - very unique, would take advantage of the new features, would be interesting in a game against Carthage (what with its mountain climbing elephants - assuming Tibet would have some bias toward starting near a mountain), and would certainty expand the game outside of Europe. Unfortunately, Lhasa is already confirmed as a City-State, so that's not about to happen.

 

[nokmirt]

Here is a review of Here I stand, Ed Beach's game.


Link to video. I was wondering about it.

 

[Roltel]

Long time lurker here, have only made a few posts so far (and a while ago at that!), but have been following discussion and revelations about G&K with great interest lately.

I'd be quite happy with the likes of the Zulu or Brazil to make the last remaining civ spot, yeah, either would help to even out geographical balance. I really wouldn't be so blase as to write-of another European civ's chances, though. And I think there's a strong chance Sweden might well be the one.
The reason? Firstly, if you look at all three scenarios that are coming (Fall of Rome, Into the renaissance, Kingdom of Smoky Skies/Steampunk), ALL are Europe-focussed. And we've already heard comments from the developers that the scenarios influenced a lot which Civs have been added. And as many have pointed out, Sweden could fit quite nicely into at least a few of those - especially Intyo the Renaissance if it is supposed to include the wars of the Reformation.
There was also a mention somewhere (can someone confirm it) that Stockholm was NOT going to be included again as a CS. As in the past, this has happened when that city was going to be included in a new civ - and Stockholm would be a strange one in terms of significance and profile to drop if that wasn't the case.

IMO, Sweden is looking more likely the more I read and think of it. I'd put Zulu's and Brazil as my dark horses. And I'd dismiss the suggestions of these obscure south American pre-Inca cultures - if the Civ series has shown anything, it's they like to include better known and higher profile Civs to appeal to appeal to the fun factor of playing.

BTW - when are we likely to know. I thought I read somewhere last wek that there was likely to be news of the remaining civ by the end of this week.

Anyway, REALLY itching to get this on June 22!

 

[nokmirt]

I am not sure it will be Sweden, its not really needed for the "Into the Renaissance" scenario. But saying that I am a big fan of having Sweden added. It would be great if it was Sweden, especially with a cannon UU. Though I have a feeling it will be either an African civ, or Indian tribe from North America, perhaps a tribe from the southeast. I was hoping for Tibet, but Lhasa is a confirmed CS. I was also thinking of a civ between Germnay/Austria and Russia, perhaps Poland or Hungary, but CSs prevent this correct? Watch it be the Barbary Coast or something.

Not sure BTW any new interviews at Firaxis today?

 

[Buccaneer]

I'll be happy when they announce the 9th civ so we can stop all of this Zulu talk and get back to talking about what they actually announced?

 

[Delgar]

Conspiracy theory: maybe they don't know what the 9th civ is, and they are going to rely on our speculation to come up with it. As in, they are monitoring the forums and whichever civ has the most vociferous support from us, will be the 9th civ.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I'll be happy when they announce the 9th civ so we can stop all of this Zulu talk and get back to talking about what they actually announced?

What if it's the Zulu?

 

[Guandao]

I wouldn't mind the Zulu. I love listening to their language. It borrowed some clicks from Khoisan languages.

 

[truenarnian]

While I agree with you, I also think that when we have people realistically asking for an Inuit civ because it's something different, I think the same can be said for a Canadian civ. But like I said, I agree with you, it shouldn't be in.

I agree with the "something different" assessment but, despite being Canadian myself, I feel Canada would be a poor choice and the Inuit would be a great choice. Canada is like America, Australia (non-Aboriginie), New Zealand (non-Maori); the Inuit (or some other northern culture) is unique. I prefer the Inuit because of inukshuks, iglus, etc., but I'd take any Civ that works on tundra, snow, icebergs etc.

 

[K0alabear]

I'm a fan of adding Sweden also but it sounds so unlikely. But if its true that Stockholm wont be a CS anymore? It might happen.. Something like Sweden/Sweden-Finland? But I feel there is many more option. Maybe Mali and Mansa Musa?

And sure it could be Zulu. I'm just wondering which one would sell more as a DLC, something like Zulu or some totally new Civ to the series?

 

[MARDUK80]

I am not sure it will be Sweden, its not really needed for the "Into the Renaissance" scenario. But saying that I am a big fan of having Sweden added. It would be great if it was Sweden, especially with a cannon UU.

I'm a fan of adding Sweden also but it sounds so unlikely. But if its true that Stockholm wont be a CS anymore? It might happen.. Something like Sweden/Sweden-Finland?

I am against Sweden-Finland combo Civ. I rather would like to get them both as independent Civilizations (as they should be represented). But you just can't have them all and three (Denmark, Finland and Sweden) Scandinavian Civs would be overkill, so I'd grimly accept the Sweden/Finland representation (though I would be very happy about it in notime ) IF the uniques would heavily have Finnish representation. Like Hakkapelitta UU, Sauna UB or Tar Kiln UI.

"In Sweden, there are 1100 known hill forts with a strong concentration on the northern west coast and in eastern Svealand. Only in Södermanland, there are 300, in Uppland 150, Östergötland 130 and Bohuslän and Gotland 90-100 each."

Hakkapeliitta (Cavalry replacement) and Borg (Castle) UI would be very fun combo. Borg would be Fort replacement and could be build outside friendly territory. It would spread religion 10 hex radius (like city) and would give 'free' city walls if city is placed in tile that has Borg in it. Swedes build about 100 Hill Forts (Borgs) in Finland during Swedish occupation and converted Finns from Finnish Paganism (Nature/Kalevala belief) to Christianity. After several Crusades (with help of German Priest) Finland was essentialy converted but the whole process took Centuries (and cost many lives in both sides). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#Swedish_Crusades

"National-romanticist Swedish and Finnish historians in the nineteenth century gave the name "crusades" to military expeditions which resulted in the Swedish conquest of Finland in the Middle Ages."

 

[Louis XXIV]

BTW, it might be worth considering one of the translations for the name (like Hackapell) so as to not scare us Americans

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I am against Sweden-Finland combo Civ. I rather would like to get them both as independent Civilizations (as they should be represented). But you just can't have them all and three (Denmark, Finland and Sweden) Scandinavian Civs would be overkill, so I'd grimly accept the Sweden/Finland representation (though I would be very happy about it in notime ) IF the uniques would heavily have Finnish representation. Like Hakkapelitta UU, Sauna UB or Tar Kiln UI.

"In Sweden, there are 1100 known hill forts with a strong concentration on the northern west coast and in eastern Svealand. Only in Södermanland, there are 300, in Uppland 150, Östergötland 130 and Bohuslän and Gotland 90-100 each."

Hakkapeliitta (Cavalry replacement) and Borg (Castle) UI would be very fun combo. Borg would be Fort replacement and could be build outside friendly territory. It would spread religion 10 hex radius (like city) and would give 'free' city walls if city is placed in tile that has Borg in it. Swedes build about 100 Hill Forts (Borgs) in Finland during Swedish occupation and converted Finns from Finnish Paganism (Nature/Kalevala belief) to Christianity. After several Crusades (with help of German Priest) Finland was essentialy converted but the whole process took Centuries (and cost many lives in both sides). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#Swedish_Crusades

"National-romanticist Swedish and Finnish historians in the nineteenth century gave the name "crusades" to military expeditions which resulted in the Swedish conquest of Finland in the Middle Ages."

I don't think Borg shoudl spread religion as far, I think it should be about 5-8 hexes.

 

[fat_tonle]

I think Zulu is important because it really fits the mold of indigenous people of Africa similar to Iroquois and Polynesia. In fact, every continent should have some representation of indigenous people, but South/Central America already have decent representations, as do Asia/Europe.

Even Aborigine but I don't think we have enough historical records to support them. So I really don't buy that Zulu shouldn't be in because it wasn't a civilization to the extent we normally associate, otherwise Polynesia/Iroquois wouldn't be in either.

We just need new game play. Give them good land bonuses, good UI's, and we are good to go.

My DLC's would be:

1. Portugal/Kongo double pack
2. Majapahit
3. Sweden

I think that would mirror what we have gotten post vanilla civ DLC's quite nicely.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I don't think we'll ever get a double civ pack again.