Supercity vs Specialized Cities

[BlueGenie]

Someone posted somewhere that Epic and lower game speeds are not balanced as the Team concentrates on the longer speeds for balancing and issues.
This means Epic might very well not be balanced and that's why you keep having these issues and problems.
Unfortunately for everyone else it means that if the Team caters to and attempts to fix your issues it not only takes away from time fixing longer speed issues and making the game better with new things, it can very well also totally mess up the settings and balancing play styles on the longer game speeds, i.e the speeds most people enjoy and play the game on.
For both our and your own sake I do suggest either holding off on new and old issues until ls612 has had a chance to look over and change some of the settings for Epic or test a game on Snail to see what the difference might or might not be.

Cheers

 

[Epona222]

Low blow. Remember those and the "punk" techs are alternative timeline stuff. That's why they are in blue on the tech tree in my signature.

I didn't consider that you might read it as a low blow, and I'm sorry if you took it that way, I am a massive fan of C2C and in no way intended to cause upset. To me, having both alternate timeline techs/units and at the same time insisting on a demonstrable historical basis for socio-political aspects both in the same mod is perhaps a bit confusing. I do not want to play a historical simulator, I want to let my imagination fly and try out the "what ifs". The alt-timeline stuff caters to that whim perfectly, but being told that I must run my Civ along historically correct socio-political lines or face failure seems to run in the opposite direction, to me that is another "what if" and ought to be viable.

IMO you should either grasp the "what if" side and run with it, or make a historically accurate empire simulator, because otherwise I am not really sure what I am going to end up with in terms of gameplay if I am still playing C2C in 6 months time - different aspects of it seems to be pulling in different directions. I do hope that I haven't caused any offense with this comment, because please believe me that none is intended, I only want to give constructive feedback - and most of C2C is utterly astounding work that I love.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Epona222

The way I few things are that a player can play either way. If they want to be historical they can try to do so and things will line up better for them. Likewise if you want to adapt to the game and play your own way I want that to be allowed too. That's why cultures are not linked to civilizations anymore and why alternate timeline techs are dead end techs. If you don't like them don't research them. Or better yet disable the Alternate Timeline folder. Hopefully in the future there will be a custom game setting to turn on or off alternate timeline stuff.

There are many ways to play the game and we must constantly balance between historical, alternate timelines and of course game balance and limits. However there are some lines that I do not wish to cross such as "magic" or "paranormal". Because even as crazy as it sounds if you can domesticate a wolf to a dog you could domesticate a bear to a "teddy".

 

[Epona222]

@Epona222

The way I few things are that a player can play either way. If they want to be historical they can try to do so and things will line up better for them. Likewise if you want to adapt to the game and play your own way I want that to be allowed too. That's why cultures are not linked to civilizations anymore and why alternate timeline techs are dead end techs. If you don't like them don't research them. Or better yet disable the Alternate Timeline folder. Hopefully in the future there will be a custom game setting to turn on or off alternate timeline stuff.

There are many ways to play the game and we must constantly balance between historical, alternate timelines and of course game balance and limits. However there are some lines that I do not wish to cross such as "magic" or "paranormal". Because even as crazy as it sounds if you can domesticate a wolf to a dog you could domesticate a bear to a "teddy".

Thanks for the response! And thank you for taking the time and making the effort to discuss this, it is appreciated. I do like the Alt-timeline stuff very much indeed, and certainly do NOT want it to cross a line into magic or paranormal nonsense. I do take issue with the idea of domesticability of all animal species because there some species that - as one example - because of migratory patterns suffer huge stress if kept in one location during their instinctive migrating season (and yes, this is one reason why we have never had deer riders historically, reindeer alone took quite well to domestication but I don't know whether you have ever been up close to one, they are too small for an adult human to ride, even a large one would come to no more than mid chest height of an adult man at most, average height is just over 1 metre - but they are strong and can easily pull loaded sleighs over snow, so were useful in that regard) - or were undomesticable for other reasons, that's just one example - but it's just blurring the line a little to imagine what it might have been like had those species been more amenable to domestication, and it's good fun. I understand wanting to make it an option that can be turned off by players who do not like that sort of thing.

All I am asking really is for similar consideration for those of us who get most enjoyment out of running a massive expansive empire or sandbox style game (but with deer riders and steam tanks ) - just to have a start up option to turn off or reduce the penalties to an expansive empire (those that have been introduced to C2C recently, not the standard BTS ones such as city maintenance), with a warning in the hover-over pop up that it will probably result in an unbalanced game and that it is not a recommended game setting, use at your own risk type of thing.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Someone posted somewhere that Epic and lower game speeds are not balanced as the Team concentrates on the longer speeds for balancing and issues.
This means Epic might very well not be balanced and that's why you keep having these issues and problems.
Unfortunately for everyone else it means that if the Team caters to and attempts to fix your issues it not only takes away from time fixing longer speed issues and making the game better with new things, it can very well also totally mess up the settings and balancing play styles on the longer game speeds, i.e the speeds most people enjoy and play the game on.
For both our and your own sake I do suggest either holding off on new and old issues until ls612 has had a chance to look over and change some of the settings for Epic or test a game on Snail to see what the difference might or might not be.

Cheers

Why is it I'm getting the feeling that you all think I've not been apart of this mod as long or longer than many of you posting and giving advice?

I have been here since Rise of Mankind was introduced by Zappara. That's were I met Strategyonly and he introduced me to his Mod NWA based off RoM. I've been the whole route with AND and Afforess, and I've been here the whole route with C2C. I've been lead to believe that I'm considered a part of the Team, not in the Modding sense, but in the testing/feedback sense, a Beta tester. I'm not ignorant to how this mod has been evolving over the last 1+ years. I have practical insight and experience on how this mod works.

Back to the subject: I'm trying to get a game up to where I can give Is612 some feedback.

Epic level play may have a problem. But it isn't taking away any thing from the development of longer game speeds. The problems I've presented are present in all speeds.

Asking for feedback, then getting some, and then getting upset over it is a problem. Cause now I've pissed a Modder off too, just by asking questions.

I bump heads with ppl because I show the other side, and sometimes they don't want to see/hear it. I have a voice and an opinion just like everyone else that posts here. I'll not back down to anyone, even the Team. We can argue our points and If we can't come to an agreement we can agree to disagree. But I'll not be derided, defamed, and/or bullied by Anyone here.

JosEPh

 

[BlueGenie]

Not at all what I'm intending Joseph. I merely figured that any attempts at balancing Epic before ls612 got the groundwork done would just be a waste.
Oh, and also that if you try Snail (or Marathon, if that one is fixed) you'd notice the differences between the speeds and might very well be in a better position to give feedback.

Cheers

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Epona222

At first I did not think domesticated bears were a good idea but DH insisted on them if I had other types like mammoths or zebras. However given enough time and effort through selective breeding one would assume that even bears could become a domesticated species. For instance in Russia they domesticated silver foxes both to be more tame and to be more aggressive. When doing so other traits manifested such as different coloration, cured tails, etc. Bears I would assume would have similar expressions of genes if they are made to be "tame". Likewise you could plausibly breed for a mount.

But unlike more easily domesticiatable animals bears would be a real effort to do which is why they are Wonders and not a common animal like horses or sheep. And as I have said if you don't like those just disable the subfolders within the Alt-Timeline folder.

It all comes down to what graphics we have to use. Personally I would have liked to see a Megatherium rider but there is no graphics for that.