SW8 - Stupid Spacers!!!!

Upping to DG will make this a definite challenge. Extra AI settler, AI trading bonus, and increased corruption (lower OCN), will put us in the tech hole faster. Don't underestimate how hard it is to get out of the AA without self-science. Demanding many techs from a DG opponent in peace talks with spears and swords won't be easy. No Great Library adds a lot to it already.

I do question the idea of Germany (MIL/SCI) as the proposed civ. The Scientific trait seems against the very nature of the game, and we will likely build no libraries or universities (unless we're really hurting for culture). The three free techs don't seem worth it (and also against the very principles of the game).

I'd prefer (in addition to Militaristic), either Agricultural, Commercial, or Religious. Celts (MIL/AGR) and Rome (MIL/COM) have those darn AA UUs that can spoil the GA (mmm, acronyms). Japan's (MIL/REL) Samurai is a fine Knight replacement, with 4 defense even if you lack saltpeter.

However, I think with the military might we need in the AA to catch up in tech (unless a Great Library capture gambit is our strategy 100%), an early UU might not be bad, despotic GA or not.

Finally, I definitely agree that we are going to have, and need, a ton of gold. With no per-turn deals allowed, we can't trade resources, luxuries, or income. Just techs, cities, and cold hard cash. Since we can't buy luxuries either (I assume thats what meant by the "No 20 turn stuff. Just 1-for-1s"), we'll likely have to go heavy on the luxury slider in the early/mid game. Any strategies or traits, etc, that boost our income and our happiness are essential (almost points to REL/COM, India).
 
lurker's comment: An advantage of Germany is that it has spears and Archers at the start of the game. It does lack pottery and alphabet of course, which are points to Celts and Romans, but the SCI makes a good case for itself in this variant. Yes it goes a bit against the principles, but somewhere you need to draw the line of what's against the principles and what's making the game impossible.

Very good points on the rest though. DG is a PITA, but no one tells you for sure that the EMP AI's will reach spaceships ;)
 
The EMP AIs will reach spaceships. 2050 is a long way away. This is not AW, and we'll be doing a lot of trading. It will be in our advantage to have tech parity among the AIs.

If they seem to be lacking in getting to the late techs, we should impose the challenge of gifting them cash, cities and techs during peace talks, instead of imposing Demigod difficulty. It adds to the late-game challenge, which this variant tends to lack (Demigod would make it even further early-game lopsided).
 
Good point about starting with Spears and Archers. Hadn't thought of that. Does seem rather important. ;)

But what are the chances that a goody hut would give us Bronze Working instead of having to choose our civ to get it? As this is not AW, we're free to explore...
 
good points Vol.

im willing to consider another civ, if IroP wants one?
Rome would be nice too.

about world settings?
im thinking standard continents 70%, average weather, barbs roaming, seed on, sgl,culture link off.

@ all academians - since the flood on the Academy's gates isnt coming, if any off you want in, you're in.
 
well, i started it.
hopefully we'll get more sign ups now.

the stats that we started with


and the world as off 3000bc.


Soul Warrior - started it up
Vol you're up
IroP on deck
JB

SLOTS STILL OPEN. C'MON.... you know you want to.
 
Got it. Think I will defer to tonight to play.

Some questions and thoughts:
  • I like blocking off the chokepoint with a warrior produced next turn.
  • We don't have a settler yet, so that will be next priority, I'd like to have some MP, but with no-science, lux tax works fine for now.
  • I assume we're allowed to build embassies.
  • I assume that renegotiating peace and trading that way is allowed.
  • What land type was selected? Continents?
  • What wonders are we aiming for? SoZ seems critical. Great Lighthouse could be great if its Continents or Archipelago. Nothing else seems worth the shields (with GLib verboten).
  • How tight should our city spacing be? I'd suggest tighter than OCP, but I think an AW 3-tile spacing will cramp out Spaceship style later on.
  • I'll throw a dotmap out later, once we've explored a bit more
 
block the spaniards
settler next
embassisies are allowed, but to what purpose?
continents 70%
wonders? we want any? we CANT build the GLIB. all others (non sci ones) are ok.
city spacing. CxxxC or CxxC. we will discuss later.
dot away for us to discuss.

nice question set, Vol.
 
lurker's comment: Embassies allow for tech theft before espionage
 
Good point Admiral, an easy pump at that.

@Bede, I'm not sure wether he wants to do some stealing at all.

About the SS cramping of cities, it might just be my idiocy but I've seemed to do rather good at SS in the past using CxxC, and barely any hospitals at all. Perhaps it's just plain foly, but it's what I do ;)
 
Yes, 5 SW is the obvious 2nd city location. We'll see what fits well around it after more exploration.

Embassies are good for some espionage, being aware of who's at war with who (and trading with who), and for that slight boost in attitude that can be useful for peace talk trading.

I'm not yet convinced that the best source of techs isn't through renegotiating peace. War should be used a bit more sparingly than the original post suggests.
 
(0) 3000 BC
Change Rome to Warrior in 1, as we can get it down to the chokepoint in time.
Increase luxury slider to 30% to keep Rome happy.
Byzantines have Bronze Working and 10 gold.
Spain has Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, and 35 gold, and lacks Warrior Code.

(IT) Nada.

(1) 2950 BC
Rome: Warrior -> Settler in 5.
Warrior explores and finds that we have 4 Ivory. Too bad we can't use it for trading for techs during peace negotiations, as we can't do any 20 turn deals.
Byzantine Settler pair spotted in the west.

(IT) The Byzantine settler pair founds in place.

(2) 2900 BC
We put our Warrior on the chokepoint hill.

(IT) Spanish warrior in the east grabs a goody hut, looks like they got gold out of it, as their treasury jumped this turn.

(3) 2850 BC
Spain has Warrior Code now.

(IT) Nada.

(4) 2800 BC
Just some explorin'.

(IT) Nada.

(5) 2750 BC
Spain has two workers in their capitol (are for sale).

(IT) Nada.

(6) 2700 BC
Rome: Settler -> Warrior in 4. Undefended capitol needs some MP. Reset luxury slider to 0%.
Goody hut gives us Pottery.


The two things we need for this next phase of the game are probably Granaries and Spearmen. Lets see if we can get both.

I commence Peace Talks with Spain.


I get Bronze Working for Pottery and 50 gold.


Well, until we can make a move for Iron Working and our Legionaries, we now have all the techs we need for a while.

(IT) Nada.

(7) 2670 BC
Am forced to play a Farmer's Gambit and send the Settler unescorted. But he'll meet up with one of our Warriors in the field at his destination.

(IT) Nada.

(8) 2630 BC
Zzz...

(IT) Nada.

(9) 2590 BC
More Zzz...

(IT) Nada.

(10) 2550 BC
Rome: Warrior -> Warrior A Granary could be considered for our poor, slow-growing, Capitol.
Settler moves into position to found our second city, 10 turns later than happens in most games. :(
I left the worker unmoved for the next player. I suggest a road to the new city location through the grassland.

Status:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/SW8_2550BC.SAV
 
And one mondo dotmap:


Notes:
  • Purple could go 1 N to the river, and Green could go 1 SW to the hill/choke, and then Yellow would be eliminated.
 
nice moves Vol.
but....

1- great dotmap. lets get that ivory hooked up next (black spot)

2- that "renegotiating" peace, seems stretching it a bit. my original intent was to actually be at war, and then get some techs due to our being top dog.
i wasnt clear (or was i? :confused: ) so lets keep this set.
what are the team's thoughts on this?

3- IroP UP
JB on deck

some edits....

4- lucky one with the POTHEAD commune we found. lets keep exploring.
cant remember which tech is "researched" now, but set it to CB, as we dont want to pop it out of a hut.

5- a granary would be very welcome in rome, but maybe later.

6- @ bede, BEF, etc - good call on the Embassies.
we do indeed want to steal, if we cant extort.
keeping tabs on everybody is very much allowed.
 
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