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Swedish UHVs

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by Cethegus, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. Sofie

    Sofie Chieftain

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    I really like this, I know it's a bit late, but I got a lot of Ideas for this, i don't know much about coding, but I am from Norway :p

    add my MSN if you have one: Sofiethebassist@yahoo.com
     
  2. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    I'm going to try to learn some compiling skills so I can make progress on things like this.
     
  3. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    Here's a proof of concept DLL. Rename the normal RFC DLL file and paste this into the folder. Load up an ordinary game as Vikings, settle a city, use WorldBuilder to increase the city's size to 6, and check out the City Screen. For reference, this modified DLL allows the Vikings to always draft at least one unit.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    Wonderful. You even bothered to remove their original UP and consider the pros and cons of uncontrolled drafting. :eek: One per turn's enough, given that they will exist before the dawn of the second millenia.
    With that, we have UP, UB, UU and leaders ready, with ready Civilopedia entries. All that's then needed is giving them a new starting date and proper game testing. The last time I tried to make them spawn at 800 AD, the game just spawned the next civs (Arabia, Khmer and many others) at insane places. Basically I got Arabian Scandinavia, Khmer Arabian Peninsula and French Southeast Asia... You get the idea.

    I'll give it another go and report here by next week. Very good work, Panopticon! :goodjob:
     
  5. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    I bet because he moved the Viking civ's spawn date later then the game looks for the next civ that spawns (Arabia) and put them in the Viking's location, and then the next civ will be put in Arabia's location, and so on. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to fix.
     
  6. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    Cethegus, if you give me a rough estimate of when Swedes will spawn, I can customise balance aspects of the DLL to let you play with similar modifiers to a contemporary civ. I'm thinking of applying modifiers similar to those of Russia.
     
  7. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    I still think they should spawn at 800 AD (turn 201); 2 turns before the English, 4 turns before the Germans and 6 turns before the Russians (to help get the big picture). Scandinavia's a huge chunk of land and needs time to get it developed and running. Properties similiar to Russia would be excellent.

    I'm going to add at least Monotheism, Theology, Construction and Horseback Riding and possibly Civil Service as their new starting technologies, comparing to what Vikings started with. To balance it off a little, I'll give them one less settler than Vikings start with. Nidaros or Oslo could be Independent or Barbarian to keep Norway seperate from Sweden.
     
  8. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    Update:
    I tried making the Swedes start in 800 AD by modifying Consts.py, AIWars.py, CityNameManager.py and RiseAndFall.py files and even the RFC maps a bit. This, however, resulted in an unsatisfactory result: the game ignored my newly configured starting date and insusted that I still start in 600 AD (instead of 800 AD) in the 600 AD start - with one sole catapult in the Antarctic. I made sure to move the Viking entries from between Maya and Arabia to between France and England and set starting date as 800 AD, but still this happens.

    I suspect the order of players' spawning is located in a .dll file. I was succesful to convert the Americans back to their old start date (1733 AD) but that didn't require moving their spawn past other civs like the Swedes do.
     
  9. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    Okay, it seems like civilizations have hardcoded, forced start dates that I can't get by. Since I don't want the Swedes to start already in 545/600 AD, I'll have to start learning DLL compiling after a few weeks. Since I, as the project's leader, can't ask anyone else to do this, it'll take me at least until the start of January until I'll get anything out. I plan on releasing a very rough beta version once I get past the current problems (spawns turns giving wrong numbers and catapults spawning on the Antarctic). If nothing else, I'll try to bypass the "4 civilizations must start the 600 AD scenario" rule by making the Ethiopians playable in the 600 AD start and modifying their UHV to consider this new twist. I'm not promising anything, but by modifying the 1st and 3rd UHV they should be a fully playable civ in the 600 AD start.

    However, making the Vikings a Swedish civ is the primary course of action. Considering this, I am planning of creating an "alternative" folder in the intended release to include optional UBs and UUs. So far, this will only include the Turkish Janissary and Swedish Karolin changing unique assets (Combat 1 <-> +25% vs. Melee, Archery and Mounted units). More are planned to come as the project develops, however slowly.

    EDIT: When the project reaches a enough high point, I'll start distributing the created content in a new thread. So far this remains a brainstorming thread, though.
    Thoughts are more than welcome. I can't be the only one who wants a more active and participating Scandinavia.
     
  10. veBear

    veBear Slumerican Citizen

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    Sure you isn't. We Norwegians always like a better and stronger scandinavia. And it would be nice if you could have Trondheim spawning as an independent city (the only city in Norway) and adjusting their UHV to have one city in Norway to, or, more exaxtly, on that one tile. The Swedes captured Trondheim in 1658, but gave it back (I personally have no idea of why they did so. This means a war in Scandinavia, and wars in Scandinavia occured pretty often, so it would fit (making it so Trondheim wont convert by culture by any means).

    Keep on with this project. I really like the idea.

    P.S
    Spoiler :
    When you are finished with the swedes, maybe removing Carthage to give birthplace to the Phoenicans could be an idea. They could get the town northwest of babylon normally independent and have core area at the coastal tiles around there + the normal core area of Carthage.

    UHV's could be:
    - Control at least 3 Dye by (X) AD
    - Have a treasury of (Y) money by (Z) AD
    - Bulid 5 lighthouses and 5 coastal forts by (Q) AD

    UB:
    Coastal Fort (Replaces Harbor)
    - +25% Defense in this city
    - +1 Trade route
    - (Normal harbor bonus)

    UU:
    Caniite Trader (Replaces Galley)
    - Can carry 3 unit
    - Starts with Navigation I

    And then of course the leader, King Hiram of Tyre.

    Hope you like this idea and that it won't be to much.
     
  11. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    This is a very good initiative and I can only wish you the best of luck!

    My own contribution could be to propose that the "biggest military" UHV could be "have most power" (like in the power graph) instead. That way not only unit strength is measured, right?

    Also, I've attached my own modifications to the 600AD map, as for my take on the terrain and resources of Scandinavia. (Svalbard and the Shetlands not in frame.) Note that distribution of resources could be somewhat unbalanced, but I tried to include the main sources I could find through a bit of research. Also note that I removed the Peak that was blocking Trondheim (60, 61). Also, all of Norway is unforested Hills and the eastern slopes of the mountain range (Fjällen) are all Hills. Finland is mostly waterways, Karelia isn't a barren tundra, and there are some Marshes thrown in for good measure. Everything is, of course, covered in Forest. It's not a definitive version, but rather a work in progress. (I've also done the entire Russian domain, with some work on Central Asia and the Far East. But that's another post.)
     

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  12. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    Oh yeah, and don't forget to add unit spawns (done in the Barbs.py file) to represent the now obsolete Vikings! (Is it possible to add units, preferably Berserkers, on galleys on Barbarian spawns? Could the colonists script in RiseAndFall.py also be used to spawn Barbarians? Or would there have to be a piece of new Python code to accomplish something as a Norse coastal attack?)

    You could also spawn historical (Independent) cities like Birka or Nidaros, which will then flip to the Swedish player (with changed names). But also Dublin and Reykjavik. Not to mention Novgorod and Kiev, even if that would give the Russians a flying start at their spawn! (Personally I've considered giving the Russians a post Mongol start at 1480AD - as Muscovy. But that's another modmod entirely.)
     
  13. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    I think if the tile between Denmark and southern Sweden be changed to flatland with 2 rivers on the sides it would really help the Vikings. That way not only could they have a river-protected capital but that capital will also be necessary for anyone who wishes to enter the Baltic by sea (If we change their capital to Copenhagen).
     
  14. Zagoroth

    Zagoroth Chieftain

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    You want to connect Denmark to Sweden by land? That seems ahistorical...
     
  15. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    I'm going to answer all the recent posts all in one go.

    Hello, this is the first time I've seen you post here. Thanks for voicing out your enthusiasm. :)
    I've probably stated it before already but I have been working on adding Nidaros->Trondheim as an independent city in Norway from the start. I'm unsure whether I should represent Bergen or Oslo as Independent cities also but the idea's there. Thank you for your input.

    Sorry to disappoint you, but as detailed as your suggestion is, I'm already having enough work with Sweden is and I consider Phoenicia better represented in RFC:GW anyway. You'll have to ask someone else to do it if you want to pursue a potentially international Phoenicia.

    Panopticon has to comment on if it's possible to measure two civilizations' Power graphs and enable a UHV condition that way. Currently the code only checks if the player has more units than the opponent. I'm not sure of how the details work in Python, but the 'Largest power graph' condition would be preferred to avoid players building armies full of low-power units. Answering this proposal is outside of my area of expertise, however.

    First off, you're making the same mistake I did some time ago. Including those extra resources there would make Sweden undisputedly a contender for the top spots in the score list which, as you must understand, threatens the enjoyability of the gameplay and general balance too much. I figured after a little playtesting that even a single Iron resource in Stockholm-Göteborg-Copenhagen triangle provides too much extra production.
    Another thing is how everything's covered in trees. The forests could be increased if there's a need to it, but I doubt that's anywhere near a needed amount. Even Russia needs some free space, why wouldn't Sweden.

    Setting thise aside though, I like the way you tried to repaint Finland and northern Norway and even added Marshes here and there. I'm going to make Finland's rivers and lakes look more realistic and tone down on the vegetation around there, so I'm going to keep your picture around.

    But please, despite turning down most of your ideas keep them coming. You show great enthusiasm.

    I've intended to add such feature. 500 BC - 700 AD will be Vikings' time to shine.
    I'm not going to add the Swedes any flipping cities though. The way I see it, city flips are intended only for boosting a weak starting civ or draws the lines of national borders, out of which neither are Sweden's concerns. They should have enough free space to colonize as they see fit and perhaps some cities up for grabs if they feel like war but nothing more.

    Nope; not doing that. I don't see a reason why Copenhagen should be represented at all in my modmod or why it should be made another Bosporus but perhaps these people would be interested in that.
    Spoiler :
    If you're going to draw the 'Passageway to the Baltic Sea' card, shouldn't Gibraltar be represented with southern Iberia and Morocca joining hands? Surely you see why it's better left this way.
     
  16. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    Well yes, you want to have Europe larger than it is? That seems ahistorical...
     
  17. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    Eh... no comment. Not sure. I think you can check power for each player; it you can, then it's easy enough to compare as many values as you like. It looks like it ought to be CvPlayer.getPower(), but I've never used it or seen its being used.
     
  18. Zagoroth

    Zagoroth Chieftain

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    There is a difference to making a whole section bigger than to actually creating land. Each tile represents a real area in real life, if you connect Denmark to Scandinavia you are altering the way the game will be played out. There is only one square separating Britannia from the European mainland, it would make no sense adding a random square there either.
     
  19. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    Well I can see why you object, but I think it'll do more good than harm to at least try it (and tell the swedes to settle there ASAP).
     
  20. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    This is a bit OT, but I do tend to come up with a 1001 ideas for mods. (I'll probably start a separate thread some day.) I really miss the way Civ2 handled narrows of diagonal ocean tiles. (In Civ3 and Civ4 land tiles adjoint diagonally are passable, but not coast tiles, as you well know.) My idea is then that the graphics be made more into a :civ2: like coastline, meaning that the diagonal land tiles would be separated by some water and thus impassable. Only with some modern tech (Steel?) and a road would there appear a suspension bridge that also allowed land units to move across the narrow (diagonally from one landmass to another).

    I realize it probably would require quite a bit of coding and graphics work to achieve, but it could maybe be something for Civ5? Because scenario map making becomes easier when you don't have to leave a whole tile free to allow shipping through a narrow.
     

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