T2 External Consulate - How to strike Portugal?

[Bertie]

If it takes longer it will be more. It may be worth embroiling the Portuguese in a war somewhere to draw these units out of their territory and clear the way for our invasion. By land or sea we will have time for a 20 turn alliance to do this.

Furiey, great point. We'll try to get them involved in our alliance against Persia.

 

[RegentMan]

The Statue of Zeus gives you your first free ancient cavalry on the fifth turn. Didn't think about them. Good point Furiey.

 

[Double Stack]

Additionally, if we attack by sea, Delft is not a good launching point since it on a lake rather than on the sea. Have to build a city north of it to make it work.

 

[MOTH]

The screenshot from when we established our embassy is below. The currently have a hoarde in Lisbon. At least 7 Reg Spears, 5 ACs, a Galley, a Settler, and the garrison scrolls from there so there is at least one more unit. They are also at 11 spt and are building 2 turn spears right now.

 

[mad-bax]

I've gone right off the idea of a seaborne invasion. We'd need too many boats to carry a big enough army.

 

[zyxy]

Iii ecky... seems my estimates were way off. There goes the value of planning

What does Henry want to do with all those troops? Looks like he may have run out of other things to build. The settler suggests Portugal wants to expand, but has no room.

Any kind of attack on Portugal is going to be excessively costly now, unless we can get them to expend those forces first.
Perhaps we should do the more straightforward thing? Take China, France, Spain, then Portugal?

 

[RegentMan]

Indeed, a seaborne invasion is way too much. Let us march our army through Portugal's neighbors, then Portugal itself.

 

[Bertie]

Any kind of attack on Portugal is going to be excessively costly now, unless we can get them to expend those forces first.
Perhaps we should do the more straightforward thing? Take China, France, Spain, then Portugal?

Taking out Portugual does seem much less promising now than it did 24 hours ago! I don't think our original strategy is going to work on the timetable we had hoped for.

We'll need to think about it, but maybe we should take on China after we finish with the Dutch and Indians, then head for Gordium. After we secure that, we can work backwards towards France etc. (Just thinking out loud here.)

 

[GenMarshall]

Indeed, a seaborne invasion is way too much. Let us march our army through Portugal's neighbors, then Portugal itself.

If we do that, we need to sign ROPs with France and Spain in order to head to the Portugiese.

 

[TimBentley]

The screenshot from when we established our embassy is below. The currently have a hoarde in Lisbon. At least 7 Reg Spears, 5 ACs, a Galley, a Settler, and the garrison scrolls from there so there is at least one more unit.

I believe there were two other units. The exact number is in the chat log (although it hasn't been posted yet).

Portugal is currently at war with Persia, so they should send their ACs to them.

 

[RegentMan]

If we do that, we need to sign ROPs with France and Spain in order to head to the Portugiese.

Or we could simply conquer them, whatever... We do need the land for our culture victory.

 

[GenMarshall]

Or we could simply conquer them, whatever... We do need the land for our culture victory.

Do we realy need to deal with Spain and France both at the same time?

 

[vikingruler]

i still think the easiest way to take them out is seaborne. it might be costly but easy. making ROP's has problems. like what if we run into a line of enemy troops, that we can't go around, or the AI has a lot of land with no roads. war would take to long and we can't leave portugal alive that long. Lisbon's 2 wonders are too valuable. statue of zeus will expire somewhat soon and the pyramids are just too good. i say we build up 5 or 6 galleys, load them with MDI's, pikes, a few knights, and possibly 2 or 3 trebs.

 

[GenMarshall]

True, but should we wait untill we get better seaworthy ships or use Galleys that have a nasty tendicy to sink if their turn is ended not at the coast. What if the cities of France and Spain have their culture expand so much that the only way to get to Portugal is with a galleon.

With out tech, its too much of a risky buisness to have our galleys sail with our troops and have them suddenly sink in sea. ROPs is the only way that we can preserve our army at this tech level.

 

[Ranger99]

The seaborne invasion is what i'd go for, for a number of reasons:
1. We will then have a navy to work with later on
2.ROP's and stuff like that could actually cost us more if the AI is demanding for cash
3.It is quite an easy op. if we're carefull they wont have any time to deal with it.

Another thing that we need to do is get another city report,how old was that embassy report??

AND we dont HAVE to take Lisbon, if we get the other two cities we then have a base for future ops against Lisbon, with ONE city all we'll have to do is wait it out some, ONE city simply CANNOT keep up production with entire NATIONS it just doesn't work that way. So it would go like this:
1.Make the navy and transport troops to Portugal
2. Take those other two cities
3.Negotiate some and get them to give you stuff in return for peace
4. Wait
5.With a weakened Lisbon we can hit them and take 'em out

Remember one city can't support all those troops for that long. AND if we go by land those troops could come out and give us a nasty bite.

 

[MOTH]

The City View is 5 turns old. It was gained just before we signed an MA with Portugal vs Persia, so at least the ACs have probably moved out.

Lisbon is really the only city we need/want. It has the Pyramids and SoZ and is the principal reason we are targeting the Dutch next. I suppose we also need a city with Ivory so we can build the ACs as well.

 

[RegentMan]

Remember one city can't support all those troops for that long. AND if we go by land those troops could come out and give us a nasty bite.

But that one city can culture flip everything we've earned. If we invade Portugal, Lisbon must fall. If I'm not mistaken, in Conquests capturing the capital reduces overall culture flip chances?

 

[GenMarshall]

Before a whole switchgate thing happens or starts again , let me point out that I am a moderate/centrist in this possition (IE neutral)

I have compiled the Pros and Cons of each plan.
Use the navy to invade
Pro: Dont have to cough up funds to sign ROPs
Con: Large amount of ships required to move units (A Galley can only transport 2 units). Total Ships needed=number of offensive units/2.
Galleys have a nasty habit of sinking in Sea and Ocean tiles

Use of ROPs
Pros: Dont have to rely on galleys to move units
Cons: Cost of signing ROPs
Possibility that French and/or Spanish units would block us unintentonaly.

 

[Nobody]

what did portugal do to us, i think we should finish the dutch and indians first, then deal to the french and china (not wipe them out) before sending a large army across the world to fight a 3 city civ, when really if it wasnt us to get the pyrimids the portugese are next best to have it. as it only benefits 3 citys. I was in favor of a small naval landing and fast victory, because it would be a colonial war, but if this is undoable i say we just leave the portugese alone, and concentrate on the dutch, indian and then china,france.

 

[zyxy]

ROP's will probably not cost us anything (we're quite big).

Attacking Spain is a problem. They seem to have iron, and they have the Great Wall. France and China are easier (no iron, no great wall) and may provide a land route to Portugal.

Ranger99 has a good point I think. We should get another report on Lisbon in maybe 10 turns or so to see if those troops are leaving for the front.

If we attack Portugal we should take them out completely IMO. Flip risks are too great.

I don't know the free unit support of the AI on this level, but it's probably quite a bit. They get something overall, plus something per city.