T2-JR12 Public Discussion

[ravensfire]

Zorven has requested the following Judicial Review:

Can CoS K.4 allow a deputy to play the save in light of the specific nature of CoL G.3? Put another way, can CoS K.4 expand the Chain of Command beyond what is defined within CoL G.3?

Section G of the Code of Laws

G.  Chain of Command 
  1.  Determines the Designated Player if the President is 
      unavailable for the turn chat. 
    a.  If no citizen in the CoC is present at the game play 
        session, the session shall be ended.
  
  2.  Settles departmental jurisdiction conflicts. 
  
  3.  COC 
    a.  President 
    b.  Vice President 
    c.  Minister of Internal Affairs
    d.  Minister of Defense
    e.  Minister of Foreign Affairs
    f.  Minister of Trade and Technology

Section K of the Code of Standards

K.
4.  Should an office holder post that they will be absent 
      for a certain time period, the Deputy is empowered 
      with all duties and responsibilities of the position 
      for that period.
    a.  The Deputy shall relinquish all such powers upon 
        return of the office holder.

Also relevant to this discussion are: Article M of the Constitution, Section H of the Code of Laws, Sections E, K of the Code of Standards.

Thank you,
-- Ravensfire, Chief Justice of Fanatica

 

[Chieftess]

Well, from the last set of rules, it sounds like it...

 

[ravensfire]

Question:

What is required for K.4 to take effect? Meaning, may the post be anywhere, official absence only, PM?

Secondary: Does K.4 apply if the leader says that they will be late?

-- Ravensfire

 

[Krabius]

What is required for K.4 to take effect? Meaning, may the post be anywhere, official absence only, PM?

The best dessision would be posting only in official absence thread. Posting anywhere wouldnt be comfortable. And pm not a very good choise, since the person (President) who will get it might be away also.

Secondary: Does K.4 apply if the leader says that they will be late?

Probably depends on how late.

 

[Bootstoots]

I don't see how CoS K.4 applies at all in issues of the CoC, given that there is a CoL article that clearly defines the CoC.

 

[Civanator]

but, K.4 is in conflict with the CoC, since K.4 clearly statse that the deputy presumes ALL powers and responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is retaining rank in the CoC, but this is where the confusion begins, because it doesn't specify whether or not the deputy is allowed to do this.

 

[ravensfire]

Question:

Does the Chain of Command positions refer to the Position listed, or to the person elected to that position?

(See Civanators point above - this is a focused restatement of his question)

-- Ravensfire

 

[ravensfire]

Question: (related to above)

The CoC does, in fact, specifically refer to a deputy in the list (the VP). Does this, by extension, mean that the other deputies are excluded as they are not mentioned on the list?

-- Ravensfire

 

[zorven]

What is required for K.4 to take effect? Meaning, may the post be anywhere, official absence only, PM?

Secondary: Does K.4 apply if the leader says that they will be late?

1. The laws do not make any specification except that it must be a post. However, a PM would not be acceptable as that is a message, not a post.

2. Yes, stating you will be late is equivalent to stating you will be absent until X.

Does the Chain of Command positions refer to the Position listed, or to the person elected to that position?

It refers to the person that currently holds that title.

The CoC does, in fact, specifically refer to a deputy in the list (the VP). Does this, by extension, mean that the other deputies are excluded as they are not mentioned on the list?

Yes. The COC is very specific in nature. It lists only those persons allowed to function as DP.

 

[Civanator]

Then, zorven, if your answers are correct, they aren't specifically stated. This is what Saervok means by 'unwritten' rules.

 

[Sarevok]

this is just one part of those 'unwritten rules', but yes its these kinds of things i refer t as well as 'traditions'

 

[zorven]

Originally posted by Civanator
Then, zorven, if your answers are correct, they aren't specifically stated. This is what Saervok means by 'unwritten' rules.

What are you referring to?

 

[Peri]

This Public Discussion is now closed.
The Court of Term 2 is charged with producing a ruling as soon as possible.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Peri
This Public Discussion is now closed.
The Court of Term 2 is charged with producing a ruling as soon as possible.

We have a bit of a problem here people. If this JR is truly the the responsibility of the term two judiciary then only the term two CJ can call discussion complete. If this JR is the responsibility of the term three judiciary then I respectfully request that the sitting CJ not be so darn fast in closing the discussion for I have a thing or two to say in these JRs. I was unable to post here as a sitting justice but now that I'm no longer a justice (and the silly gag riule no longer applies to me) I would like to add to this discussion.

 

[DaveShack]

That's an interesting point of view. It would probably be better for the T2 CJ to end arguments.

IMHO the "gag rule" applies to the justices who are hearing a particular case, so no donsig, you're not ungagged...

 

[ravensfire]

This Public Discussion is now closed.

-- Ravensfire, Chief Justice of Fanata (Term 2)

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by ravensfire
This Public Discussion is now closed.

-- Ravensfire, Chief Justice of Fanata (Term 2)

I respectfully submit that this is also premature. I have requested a Judicial Review to ascertain who should be completing these Judicial reviews. Until such time as that JR is complete these JRs should be left open.

 

[DaveShack]

The Chief Justice of Term 4 has authorized discussion of unresolved cases to be reopened. Citizens wishing to comment should do so within the next 2-3 days.

 

[zorven]

Discussion Closed.