T_McC02 - The Forbidden Traits (Emp, Cont)

[T_McC]

Let me begin by saying: I don't believe in Magic Bullets. I don't believe man ever landed on the moon. And I especially don't believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.

When Firaxis released Civ IV, not every combination of the 8 traits was allocated to a civilization. The powers-that-be fessed up as to why no one was given the combination of Industrious/Philosophical, but conveniently omitted an explanation as to why there was no Creative/Organized civ. Astute citizens started asking questions and all too quickly the people "in the know" floated an explanation that it was nothing but "random chance". Yeah, like the "random chance" that George Bush's son happened to have dinner with John Hinckley's brother on the day Ronald Reagan was shot.

There's a lot more to this, and I intend to get to the bottom of it. I just haven't figured out yet how the Trilateral Commission is involved.

We're through the looking glass people. Who's coming with me?

That beep tells me they have a fix on my position and I've said too much already. Here's where we're starting:

and be sure to understand this important study. It's for your own protection.

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Civ: Japan (Creative, Organized) not (Aggressive, Organized)
Level: Emperor
Landform: Standard, Continents

6 random opponents
No preferred Victory Condtion
Standard 24/48

I picked Japan to modify because I don't think I've actually played a game as them before. That and Tokugawa is always a complete nut-job and won't be missed as an opponent.

I'd like a 5-person roster, and preferred experience is either a military victory on Monarch or some experience with Emperor or beyond. I think we'll need to fight a bit to test the interplay of the traits. The save has been tested on a machine without the modifed XML file, and upon founding the city 4 cpt is generated, indicating a Creative civ. So there should be no need to turn this into a Mod.

 

[Bezhukov]

Hey, you read my mind. See this thread:

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=652

Sign me up! That is, if you're the real T McC and not some nefarious impostor!

How do we know its really you?

 

[LKendter]

Well this would will be a interesting lurk. Since I haven't played on monarch yet I clearly don't qualify.

 

[Sharog]

rarely play sg myself but this new trait sure sounds interesting.

so would like to sign up for a spot. how ever, wont be able to play till 26th so dont put me on the top of the roster if i get a spot.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Looks like fun, and I look forward to seeing you guys realising it's not over- or underpowered, just got left out

I'd play, but I've suddenly developed full-time employment, and I'm finding it hard to get used to (also, I suck at Monarch usually)

 

[Woebearer]

I'm very new here, but I've finished up on Adventure 4 and have won a few Domination games on Monarch (as well as a Conquest game with No City Razing and Domination turned off). And I've been lurking and learning on a lot from other SGs.

Plus I'm freaking hilarious

Put me in coach! Put me in!

RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY!

 

[romeothemonk]

Hmm Bez and T_McC in the same game. How could I lose?

Wait don't answer that.

If you will let me, I would love to join this fine endeavor.

Military wins on Prince, Monarch and Emporer. (Emporer is not fininshed yet, but it will be when I get to sit down and finish the game!!) No pansy wins from this hombre.

Can I expect some trash talking in this thread?

 

[Bezhukov]

Romeo, Romeo, why art thou so clueless Romeo?



Military indeed does win on Emperor, as long as other civ's troops are doing the fighting for us.



Though this implies the readiness to join in to aid one's allies. The only purely offensive military game I've played was as Toku - organized really helps the militarist - but losing the aggressive trait suggests somewhat more prudence. My take on this trait combination is that it is uniquely suited for the land-grab portion of the game, with org helping alleviate the financial crunch of extra cities, and creative popping borders and giving cheap theaters/colosseums to grow the core.

The UU should show up at a good time to continue expansion via other means.

 

[Sharog]

mention of the uu's, what are the uu's of this new "japan"? and also the starting tech's, those info are farily crucial to post along imo.
(or are they just the same as toku?)

 

[T_McC]

Sounds like we have a quorum.

Roster
Bezhukov - up!
Woebearer
Romeo
T_McC
Sharog

The UU and starting techs are the same as unmodded Japan. Samurai are still good units even without the Aggressive bonus. (Besides, what would be the UU for an Org/Cre civ? An anal-retentive ballerina?) We start with Fishing and The Wheel, which seemed reasonably in line with what the other Org or Cre civs had. Also managed to sum to 100 beakers which was the most common value of starting techs.

Bez can start, otherwise we'll be hearing the whole game that we should have built a Workboat first.

I'll go after Romeo to make sure he stays on message.

 

[T_McC]

Our starting position does not claim the Pigs. Is it worth moving off the river to get all three food boni within the tiles of the capital? Would cost us a forest and some health, and our 2nd city will almost assuredly be able to claim the Pigs and Incense, but at least worth giving a little thought to.

I would think that settling in place would be best, to get started growing and building. Also gives an interesting mix of tiles for the capital. Good food and production, but only moderate terrain to plant cottages. Of course, after some of those forests are chopped ...

 

[Bezhukov]

"Bez can start, otherwise we'll be hearing the whole game that we should have built a Workboat first."

I'm actually thinking some T McC analysis would be helpful here. Given our traits (and the emphasis on early expansion they imply), these first few turns could be dispositive.

I think I agree about settling in place, as we're two techs from Animal Husbandry.

The two options, with two suboptions:

A. Build worker, research agriculture:

Pros: farmed FP is like a bonus resource, worker can continue after finishing first improvment

Cons: delays initial growth (not really a problem with this start), leaves clams inunimproved.

B1: build workboat, work floodplain

Pros: quick growth, some commerce

Cons: no worker, low production (delayed workboat)

B2: build workboat, work forest (?)

Pros: meh

Cons: very mediocre opening

The problem here is production. Workboats are great, but they're not cheap. I'd kill for a forested hill, but I don't see any. I'm tempted to go NE to that plains hill for the extra hammer in the capital, building worboat, worker, workboat if there are no resources up there or one tile south (the extra forests make up for the lost fresh water) to get the pigs for their hammer.

Input?

 

[T_McC]

First player takes 20, 2nd and 3rd take 15, and from there its 10/turn.

 

[Corbeau]

Lurker Comment

Have you folks considered settling one tile to the NE? That would give you two floodplains to work rather than one. Unless settling on a floodplain gives your city plot extra food, in which case it's probably best to totally disregard me.

 

[T_McC]

I'd be more tempted to go 1 S than NE. We need a lot of food to be able to work the hills and the space 1 S gives us the best capital. We keep at least 4 Hills and gets an additional FP. The Pig is a 3f/2p and the Clams are 5f w/Lighthouse so we have plenty of food to work the Hills.

Moving the Warrior first might reveal better information but it looks like 2 NW is too potluck.

 

[Bezhukov]

OK, I'll try south. I think grasshill pig is 4f/1h, however. 4 hills should mean nice production, tho.

 

[romeothemonk]

I figure that our best bet involves getting out a worker and a workboat as our first two builds.

I am unsure of the optomized order though. I hate to build a worker at size 1, so I am tempted to say a workboat, as the 4 food from the fished clam really can spit out the workers quickly.

On the tech path, I like picking up mining, animal husbandry and then beelining to Abet. I have kept Abet monopolies well into the AD's and the trading is ridiculusly advantageous.

I also see that with Bez getting an early start, I will have to raise my ego sheild. Brace for impact!!

I concur heavily with an early landgrab to culture push. We can worry about the military around my third turnset.

Would it surprise anyone that I love to axe/chariot rush unsuspecting civs, to steal their cities? We will just have to wait for Samurai to do that here.

 

[Bezhukov]

Starting with fishing and a workable sea resource is the ONLY case when I don't build worker first, and even then its close. If you do the math, the geometric progression surpasses the arithmetic, even giving the latter a head start. The upshot is that unimproved tiles barely pay for the citizen required to work them.

Um, T McC, we've got cheap barracks here and stars on the warriors. Is this some ingenious ruse?

We are creative, however. Apparently Kublai has kidnapped Toku and has sent an impostor in his stead. I'd recognize that Mongol smell from a mile away!

 

[T_McC]

Wait. The Warrior in the picture is unstarred and I believe Toku would start with a Combat I Warrior. I have played the start just to found the city in place and make sure we have the 4 cpt, but never noticed the cheap Barracks.

So can F4 verify we are Organized? The only place that the trait info appears is in Civ4LeaderHeadInfo.xml, and I only had to change 1 line. I'll have to poke around other directories to see if I need to change more.

Have you tried clearing the Cache when loading the game? In any case we'll need the other members of the team to try to load the save and report what they see. Just found in place and note the cost of Barracks and the culture rate, and maybe what F4 (or whatever the economy page is) has to say.

I created the game on one machine and loaded it on another, but I'm nearly positive I also cleared the cache when I loaded.

 

[Bezhukov]

How does one go about clearing one's cache?