Taking enemy capitals

As long as the 1 GPT "bug" is still in the game, it really is. Especially when maintaining an army.

Also, it's not 15 GPT total, it's much more. Let's say you are sitting at 5 favor/turn and you take a cap. Every single turn you would have gotten 5 Diplo favor, which translates into 5 GPT. In theory, you are missing out on 25GPT after 5 turns. 100GPT after 20 turns. Diplo favor and strategics are the reason why people sometimes sit at 300GPT on T100. Of course this is not possible in a real game since you cannot always get an AI to be at0 bulk and have GPT, but it's pretty close.

One good thing: All the trading was super tedious anyway, I hated it. My absolute least favorite part about playing fast. :D
Oh I misunderstood the interaction! That does sound like a bug in general, though.
 
I dont think it has been said, but for those wondering, if you take an enemy capital via loyalty flipping, you still take the diplo favor penalty. Kongo took 2 or so GC cities, which then prompted all of their nearby cities including the ones they captured to flip to independent.


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It's the only way you could trade a single strategic to the AI, though. They obviously cannot give you bulk gold. If they can't give 1 GPT they can only give you nothing, or something that isn't gold. I think that is the reason why it hasn't been fixed out yet. But yeah, it should definitely go, and the AI should just give slightly better GPT deals for strategics. The bulk gold deals are already good, the GPT deals not so much.

I would much rather sell 50 horses for, say, 20 GPT than 50 individual horses for 50 individual GPT :D
 
Is it really that crippling?
Even at 1 favor for 2 or 3gpt, your favor income in isolation is quite small. You get 1/2/3/4 favor per turn from government level, 1 per suze, and a couple from alliances although those come later.
Assuming this is early war, is giving up 15 gpt really that substantial in the context of taking over what is likely 2-4 cities? You can sell of any transient favor gain from promises and stuff that turn if needed. I don't really actively market my favor so I'm not super aware of how integral it is to some playstyles.

You can get 6-7, sometimes even more gold per favor.

Of course, if they don't like you, this goes down, and you can't trade with people you wiped out anyways. ;) Later in the game it also doesn't really matter.

And we also have to take into consideration that destroying your neighbor also means less competition for nearby land you want. All and all, I'm just glad diplo victory is no longer domination lite.
 
I dont think it has been said, but for those wondering, if you take an enemy capital via loyalty flipping, you still take the diplo favor penalty. Kongo took 2 or so GC cities, which then prompted all of their nearby cities including the ones they captured to flip to independent.


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Oh wow... thx for this info. I almost always let the last city flip instead of conquering. This malus being specific to capital DOES make it a lot more complicated.
 
The fact that Diplomatic Favor (DF) is also a currency is source of tension. It is a worthless valuable currency: once you get how the AI vote, you need few of them to secure the Congress, but the AI is willing to pay a big price for it. So you end up with an abundant source of potential cash. Not counting exploit, -10 DFpT is equal to -3 GpT (up to -6 GpT if there is a diplomatic civilization).

I would like warmongering playstyle face bigger diplomatic backlash with gradual penalty if he conquers few or a lot of cities from a civilization, and by how many capitals it conquers. Also, that penaly should decay with time. For example, something like this:
• A civilization that conquers at least 25% of the cities face -1 DF, increasing to -2, -3 or -4 for at least 50%, 75% and 100%.
• A civilization that conquers a capital face -3 DF, increasing to -6 DF for 2 capitals, -10 for 3, -15 for 4, -21 for 5...
• Every 30 turns of the game, the penalty decays by 1.
Early and little conquest will not harm too much your diplomatic game. The cities that change owner from Loyalty do not face those penalties.

I would love to see a new mechanic that allow to fully integrate a city to your empire and not consider to be "conquered". I always find absurd that a city you conquered at the ancient era (can we consider as a city 5 people living in tents around a campfire?) still think to not be part of your civilization 3000 years later while living in skycrappers. Let's call that mechanic "cultural alienation": the city could keep tracks of how many culture the empire accumulate since the city was founded. If you conquer the city, it also keeps tracks of how many culture you generate. Once your Culture exceeds the Culture of the previous owner, the city now belongs to your empire: it cannot be liberated (because it is yours like you founded it yourself).
 
As long as the 1 GPT "bug" is still in the game, it really is. Especially when maintaining an army.
It saddens me greatly that you use this bug. It saddens me greatly when games posted and stats compared are using bugs like this. What people do is up to them, but do you really need this stuff?
 
It saddens me greatly that you use this bug. It saddens me greatly when games posted and stats compared are using bugs like this. What people do is up to them, but do you really need this stuff?

What is this bug Exactly? Im afraid I have no idea of what this is about.
 
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I see, I had no Idea. I actually give away the strategic resources I dont use to my allies from time to time. With the hope of giving them a bit more of a chance. Definitely something that can be easily exploited, and a problem in multiplayer.

Wonder how many of the people that abuses trade, also complains that the game is too easy.
 
It saddens me greatly that you use this bug. It saddens me greatly when games posted and stats compared are using bugs like this. What people do is up to them, but do you really need this stuff?

We play Civ very differently. I'm simply extremely bored with the AI and the nature of the game, so I mostly play Civ as a speedrun. I am the kind of player who has huge respect for people who "break" games, find hidden bugs, find glitches, exploits, do crazy speedruns and so forth. Therefore I will do anything to give me an advantage, including everything other players consider unorthodox (though I have never used the Pantheon bug for example, it was too gamebreaking).

Why that "saddens" you I don't understand, especially when everyone keeps repeating "people should play the game the way they want to". I respect people who roleplay, but it seems that same respect is rarely extended to people who play like I do. So "anything goes" unless it harms some invisible rule, then suddenly my style of playing becomes "saddening"? Feels like you are forcing your way of enjoying the game onto others there.

People who savescum/search for exploits/race for fast victories are routinely also the people who find and report bugs, who give feedback, help improve the game, do write-ups (like your fantastic guides, I have read all of them). They make the developers aware of those bugs, so that they can be fixed.

I feel like it is so incredibly dumb and arbitrary to classify one thing as a "no-go", but another as an okay. It doesn't really matter to me if people consider the trade bug an exploit, or consider magnus chopping lame, or any of that sort. Whether the developers intended for this or not, it really doesn't affect me. Civ 6 is just lines of code. I have lots of fun testing the limits of that code, seeing how far a player could possibly go.

When @KKirrin posted that T100 screenshots of his, that honestly reignited my passion for a game I had already written of as easy and badly balanced. His "optimal play" which is decried so much inspired me to keep on and try new tactics, it showed me that there is more on the horizon that I initially thought. I hope more players take this approach to the game, and I hope more players are unafraid to be using "dirty methods". The same goes for speedrunners, who have been some of the most inspiring people to me when it comes to playing and designing video games.

Just as a cherry on top: I do actually roleplay as a greedy dictator, and I personally relinquish in the fact that I empty every AIs treasury and drive them into debt. It's exhilirating and honestly I conider it to be a part of Civ 6s lackign strategic and economic depth. I don't do it simply to win 2 or 3 turns faster. I just wish it wouldn't take as much time, but w/e.

I see, I had no Idea. I actually give away the strategic resources I dont use to my allies from time to time. With the hope of giving them a bit more of a chance. Definitely something that can be easily exploited, and a problem in multiplayer.

Wonder how many of the people that abuses trade, also complains that the game is too easy.

This is exactly the type of **** I'm talking about. Just mention once that you use a mechanic that people consider "dirty" and five seconds later you (and everyone else who does) are denounced. Brilliant and case in point, thanks for the example. Some people will even call you out for minmaxing Eurekahs or "chopping too much", whatever that means. Apparently trying very hard is already enough to upset some people.

I've won Deity without the trade bug, tyvm. I've won Deity without taking neighbors' cities. I've won Deity without minmaxing or micromanaging in any way. I've won Deity while half-asleep and inebriated to the fullest, at 4:30 AM.

Your consistent insinuation that most people are actually bad, and only win because of exploits is really asinine my man :) I don't look down on you for playing Prince, please extend that courtesy to other players who may play differently from you.

Gold exploits have always ruined the ability of peple to compare games... What surprises me is how many people think it's a cool way to play SP.

me playing on larger maps and with more CS also ruins the ability to compare games. but people never complain about that. clearly one is "taboo", the other is "yeah, whatever".
 
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Why that "saddens" you I don't understand,
It was a knee jerk reaction, thinking now about it, I just did not think you were of that ilk.
I think it is also because I am a mechanic and want to see stats that relate the the game mechanics as a game is intended.
Yo are right though, it is your choice to play that way and I do not think less of you per se, I just cannot consider your statistical output valid in my mind anymore... my problem not yours.
 
Firaxis seems to get around to bug fixes eventually. I was very happy with the recent patch because of this. While people might argue it was light on content it was great in terms of bug squashing. I imagine the gold bug will get fixed sometime within the next year
 
Firaxis seems to get around to bug fixes eventually. I was very happy with the recent patch because of this. While people might argue it was light on content it was great in terms of bug squashing. I imagine the gold bug will get fixed sometime within the next year
It will be much faster if a youtuber show it off i think, especially since we will be getting more frequent patches from now on.
 
It was a knee jerk reaction, thinking now about it, I just did not think you were of that ilk.
I think it is also because I am a mechanic and want to see stats that relate the the game mechanics as a game is intended.
Yo are right though, it is your choice to play that way and I do not think less of you per se, I just cannot consider your statistical output valid in my mind anymore... my problem not yours.

Come on, first you call it a knee-jerk reaction and then you denounce me in the same sentence? Bit counter-productive I think. "Of that ilk" makes it sound like I'm some sort of political extremist or pervert.

Don't worry, I still love you because to me you're an inspiring player and a constant source of new interesting information, but I wish people could be less emotional and tribalist about this kind of stuff.

Also, the whole issue is simply fixed by adding "I did/did not use the GPT exploit" whenever posting a screenshot. For example for most of the screenshots in the Benchmarks thread I did not use it, because it routinely made my game crash. So you can stop being concerned, none of the stuff I have posted here is "Verboten".
 
apologies then... I did formal English, the term is neutral there.

Again, it's fine, I know you never had bad intentions and I don't take it personal :)
 
This is exactly the type of **** I'm talking about. Just mention once that you use a mechanic that people consider "dirty" and five seconds later you (and everyone else who does) are denounced.

Maybe my coment was not well phrased, but it was not aimed to criticise the people who does what you do. Any way of playing is a correct way of playing. I have no problem at all with speedruns, using exploits in single player or breaking the game for fun. And I would be stupid if I had.

My comment was only aimed to the people that is extremely vocal and hyperbolic about the difficulty and the state of the AI, talking as if the game was a piece of garbage.

The reason of my comment was the following: We are all aware the AI has many problems, but the way the AI and the AI work is so routinely exaggerated and thrashed in this forum, seem to come from a place where some people are only able to see the exploits of the AI. While also ignoring, that exploiting the system is an intentional decision in many cases. An exploit like this can only ruin your experience, if other players do it in a competition, or if you are unable to keep yourself from ruining your own experience

Note that I’m actually not talking about the people who seeks exploits, or speedrunners. As those who speed run, are in my experience studying the game with a lot of respect on the work that has been put into it, and use that knowledge to challenge themselves.

My criticism was aimed to the people that is very vocal about the bugs, cause complaining and trolling has turned into a goal on itself. And most of time they use the work of the community of speedrunners to complain about the game, without understanding or caring about the design of the game, or actually wanting to enjoy it.

PS: I know you are vocal about this, cause you seem to be an speedrunner yourself. I feel the need to be vocal about this, cause Im an AI engineer, and teach video game dessign in college. So I also maybe come from a place with not enough perspective. But still feel the need to talk about how unfair are many of the comments on the game, particularly the AI.
 
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Maybe my coment was not well phrased, but it was not aimed to criticise the people who does what you do. Any way of playing is a correct way of playing. I have no problem at all with speedruns, using exploits in single player or breaking the game for fun. And I would be stupid if I had.

My comment was only aimed to the people that is extremely vocal and hyperbolic about the difficulty and the state of the AI, talking as if the game was a piece of garbage.

so your comment was more regarding a certain Chinese player? :mischief: I understand now, and yes it was phrased rather unfortunately.
 
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