Talk to me about Civ V

[Plughead]

Hello all,

My name's David Brown, and you may (perhaps) have read my words in the sadly defunct PC Zone magazine from time to time. I've been commissioned to work on a project related to Civilization V that I can't actually talk about yet. What I do want to talk about is what the bold and the beautiful on here are thinking about Civ V. What are you looking forward to? What do you think's going to be the most exciting new feature? Is Bismarck's moustache accurately modeled?

Ok, fire away. Just let me get my pencil and paper...

Dave


PS - If I've broken any forum rule with this post, I apologise!

 

[LegionSteve]

Damn, I hadn't heard the news about Zone - I am ... err was ... a subscriber

Really all the things I have heard about Civ 5 sound good, but the thing I am most eager to try out is how the combat works, with the hexes and 1 unit per tile and ranged combat.

I think whether Civ 5 is good or bad for me will depend a great deal on the AI. If it can handle its units vaguely sensibly in combat - infantry at the front, archers/artillery firing from behind and fast units trying to flank you - then I will be very happy. On the other hand if it is as dumb as the Civ 4 AI at combat then with 1 unit per tile etc it will really suck...

 

[Tomice]

Hmm, I'll try to give you some kind of summary what's going on here!

The biggest and oldest concern in the community was about Civ5 being "dumbed down", but compiled info from various sources has settled the issue, most civfanatics agree by now that #5 is different, but not dumbed down on purpose. AriochIV is the guy that collected all the info on his site, making it the #1 source of info for the community. Without him, we would't know half the things we know now, and the dumbification discussion might still be active. So interestingly, all the leaked info improved the community opinion about the game. Some will miss features from civ4 anyway, like religions, espionage, health, corporations,... So it seems there's a lot left for expansions.

The second biggest topic seemed marketing topics, DLC, price considerations, preorder bonuses, all this modern stuff, but I hardly ever took part in this discussion, someone else will have to tell you.

A sleeping demon might be the new social policies, I'm really curious how the verdict will be when we get to play it. Some (me included) hate the fact that you (seemingly) can't change your choices (no revolutions), but we are not sure about it yet. It might turn a bigger topic after release. Gamescon visitors however said the new system works well, we'll see.

The future era, which will only have one unit (a mech), is a disappointment for many. Some would have liked a full-scale era, some no future techs at all. There have been huge discussions on this topic.

The core new concepts (hexes, 1upt) are quite popular, but hardcore fans are very annoyed by every reviewer spending half of his time on explaining it over and over again.



That's all that comes to my mind right now, hope it helps! Overall, the community is very positive about the game and looking forward to the demo.



EDIT: A hint, if you want to make an article the real fans will enjoy: Check out Ariochs site and find out about the issues that are still unclear if you have a test copy, of course.

E.G. the switchability of social policy trees, the uniqueness of unique units (are they just 20% stronger or did they have better ideas?) or the meaning of the new diplomatic concepts (pact of secrecy, pact of cooperation,...)

 

[Senethro]

I'll tell you something Plughead, every bit of info released gets over-analysed and there are pages upon pages of people saying why such and such a feature won't work, all based on their assumptions about game systems.

If you invite them to tell you about Civ then be prepared for some walls of text that'll turn out to be completely wrong by release date.

 

[Psyringe]

First of all, weölcome to the forums, Plughead.

Second, are you really interested only in "the bold and the beautiful"? I'm usually happy to share my views about what I like and dislike if it helps creating a balanced and competent review or something like that. But I doubt that anything that requires us to focus only on the bright sides will result in an end product that I'd feel comfortable with.

 

[Ahriman]

Tomice's summary is accurate - though I suggest that every article of this type is not really aimed at reaching hardcore fans - we're already buying Civ5.

I'd also add:
a) The Steam demon. Many people were very upset about requiring the game to run through Steam. Personally I don't really care, but it was a big issue. Fits into the broader debates about DRM and such. Steam is less intrusive than things like EA always-internet-connected requirements, but is slightly more intrusive than other types such as a pure one-time registration, since you have to keep the Steam application installed and use it every time you run the game, even offline.

b) Creating a dedicated in-game system for loading selected mods seems interesting. I think only a small proportion of users have ever tried Civ mods, but they constitute a huge portion of the value of the game. I haven't played vanilla Civ4 or expansions (what Firaxis made) in years, but I still load the game all the time to play mods.

c) I think people have some reasonable concerns about the tech tree. The tree is slightly shorter because many social/philosophical/political techs have been moved to the social policy tree, but it still seems a bit bare in places, with techs that only do 1 thing, and many techs having odd prerequisites (like the prerequisite for battleships is.... telegraph, or for artillery is... dynamite). In addition, the modern/future era looks empty.

d) I'd emphasize again the 1upt move. Most (but not all) players are reaaally excited about moving away from Stacks of Doom.

e) My personal bugbear, shared by some, is diplomacy. It seems like they have moved to a model where they have made diplomacy very opaque; its very hard for the player to figure out what diplomatic impacts of their actions are, how the AI feels about them, what might make the AI more likely to cooperate with you, or how the AIs feel about each other. And it seems like they might have moved to a diplomatic model where the AIs care more about winning the game according to the arbitrary gamerules (and preventing the player from winning) than they do playing in a historically rational/interesting way (eg: not surprise attacking their close allies).
Some people like this, some people dont'.
But we haven't played the game, so we can't be sure yet, and this could be very overblown.

f) One of the other issues that there is unanimous enthusiasm for is the new method of strategic resources: rather than 1 horse tile allowing you to build as many cavalry as you like, a single horse tile might provide 4 horse resources, allowing you to build 4 cavalry. To build more, you need to file another tile with a horse on it. Similarly for iron, oil, aluminium, coal and uranium.
Some of these are even required for buildings; you have to have the coal resource to build factories.
So, no more powering a massive war machines of tanks and aircraft off of a single oil well.

g) I think there is broad support and enthusiasm for making the factions more unique. In Civ4, each leader had two Traits from a common pool of traits. In Civ5, they have a unique ability, that can really affect their playstyle. England gets faster movement naval units (Sun Never Sets). Japanese units do full damage even when injured (Bushido). Rome gets a 25% discount on constructing any building that already exists in their capital (Imperial Splendour). These are significant enough that they'll really change how you play these factions. And they're tied thematically into some of the unique units too; England will really rule the waves in the Renaissance era with both their movement bonus and a unique unit Ship of the Line.

h) To get a broader range of views, just browse this forum. Pretty much anything that could be said, has been said.

 

[Tomice]

many techs having odd prerequisites (like the prerequisite for battleships is.... telegraph, or for artillery is... dynamite).

Sorry for OT, but those prerequisites are not that bad!

Battleships had such a huge range, that they needed information whether they hit or not. So they carried small waterplanes with them as scouts, or radioed other troops.

There was a huge change in warfare when better explosives than gunpowder were invented. the new high explosive shells could tear apart any fortification, which changed a lot in tactics.

 

[Ahriman]

Battleships had such a huge range, that they needed information whether they hit or not. So they carried small waterplanes with them as scouts, or radioed other troops.

This makes no sense.

Telegraphs come a looonng time between aircraft or radio.
~1840 or so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph

And telegraph requires a physical cable connection.

Telegraph != telephone or radio.

There was a huge change in warfare when better explosives than gunpowder were invented. the new high explosive shells could tear apart any fortification, which changed a lot in tactics.

Explosives, sure. Dynamite? Main use of dynamite was in mining.

 

[Tomice]

Yes, probably radio and TNT would fit better. Sorry for smart-assing, but that's me, and that's why I have this pic - I can't resist!

 

[12agnar0k]

Well, assuming that your project will need some information on Civ V, then what information we can deduce and collect is posted in a couple places, I would recommend this site though, Arioch's Vast Well Of Knowledge

As for me personally what am I looking forward too,

- Greater Tactical Combat, with 1 Unit Per Tile limits, as well as the addition of Ranged Combat mechanics, and improved Naval importance with the ability to use the Ranged mechanic to fire on land, as well as improved positioning importance, e.g with flatland giving a -33% defensive penatly and rough land (hills/forests) giving +25% defensive bonus, and I could probably go on and on about more things that improve Tactical Combat, suffice to say, it will be much more fun this time around, and also harder and more complicated (Civ5 simplified? Bah!) than Stack Combat ever was.

- Lush and Organic Graphics, Yes this while not important from a gameplay prospective, If I am going to spend 200+ hours playing this game, I do want to be amazed at the graphics, and Civ5 has not fallen short on my expectations to make its lastest itterations more beautiful than ever.

- Hexes, not to say I have ever given it much thought before Civ5 was announced, but Hexes do seem to, Improve Visuals & Improve Gameplay, so they will be a welcome addition.

- Social Policies, I was very bored with Civic's like in Civ4, so I'm glad they decided to innovate this aspect, now we can mix&match bonuses from various different Social policies all at the same time, its not an original concept by any means, you can see similar "Bonuses" in many games, for instance World Of Warcraft has bonuses you can mix and match to make your character specific, likewise, Civ5 for the first time is using this in its Social Policies and they will dramatically change your game, leaving lots of variation in how you try to win the game.

- Leaders / Civilisations, I am also loving the new Unique Abilities, such as Englands "+2 to naval movement" or Romes "+25% to production on any building already built in the capital", these will really help (along with the Unique Units & Buildings" to variate gameplay and allow for massive replayability, something Civ is famous for.

- City-States, A new and fresh introduction into Civ5, they will really come into play, giving out huge bonsues to allies, and perhaps asking you to declare war on someone else, not to mention their obvious importance for diplomatic victory, something I never usually bother going for, But I may do now thanks to their introduction. My main Civ Rivals I never try to hard to keep happy, I would rather they DIE ON THE END OF MY SWORD!, but these city states aren't trying to win, I don't mind living in peacefull bliss with them .

- Win Conditions, Although I will still be looking forward to warfare a lot!, I might also try for other types of victory Cultural or Diplomatic, or Scientific, it seems you can achieve them even if you also are a warmongeror, this is thanks to a great symbiotic realtionship I think with all the victory conditions, I.e to win at conquest, this can't be your only goal, you also have to have culture to gain militaristic social policies (or economic) to fuel your military and devestate your enemies, you will need science to research new militaristic goals to make better units and destroy your rivals, you will need some element of diplomacy, City states can be good allies in warfare, some even give you Unique Units, also you can't simply be at war with everyone and win very easily, as for one you will be up against too many units at the same time, and two, allies can trade and make research pacts, all of this helps in economic gains needed to support larger empires.

- And much more, their is a lot of innovation in Civ5, and really I can't wait to get my hands on the game and play it till I burst. A lot of ineffective Mechanics have been removed and brand new ones are in thier place, and I am looking forward to getting to know each and every one.

Glad to see your working on some super secret Civ5 project, Good luck with that, .

 

[hclass]

In response to your message title:

Talk to me about Civ V

I can't.
I know too little, not enough about Civ5, so no comment.

I can't even find any info of Civ5 at Wiki Leak

 

[wapamingo]

(1) 1upt is new and will bring a new dimension to the strategy. At first I was skeptical about it being used to SoD's, but I think that indeed 1upt is a significant move in the right direction.

(2) Resources consumed or rather give limited units/buildings is something that was needed and brings again a whole new dimension to diplomacy, colonization, and strategy.

(3) Diplomacy to me seems rather unchanged. I dislike the fact that some of the attribute values are hidden so we are unsure why the AI is behaving the way it is.

(4) I am personally looking forward to MP aspect of Civ 5 as SP is boring. However, if you browse through these forums there were a few discussions on possible game breakers yet 2k did not comment on these.

 

[Zhahz]

Read thru the last 50 or so threads here and you'll find everything that's been discussed over the past few weeks. And like someone said, there's a lot of speculation, a lot of sky is falling, and a lot of discussion, mostly over stuff that has been exposed in previews on preview builds going back as far as march. You can see multiple different viewpoints in any given thread. Kinda silly to have it all repeated here.

Looking forward to 1UPT, hexes, social policies, reduction of cheese in the game (elimination of questionable gameplay elements), and a fresh alternative approach to the same old glorious civ experience.

Civ IV (w/ BTS) is an outstanding game that hasn't lost it's pull yet. Civ 5 looks like it will be at least as good, if not better.

 

[Cropper]

I'm looking forward to most of the changes. The biggest problem for me is removal of the wonder movies. Since it is so difficult and challenging to build them, they deserve a special movie to show you how great your accomplishment is. A picture is not worth a movie.

 

[BluebeardRex]

As one of the beautiful, the thing I am looking forward to most are City States. I think that they will introduce a huge range of playing variety. In IV, you could always kindd of bank on what certain civs would do when you saw who was on the map with you - Spain & Ethiopia make choices based on religion, Shaka or Monty will declare war, Mali will wreck your head with constantly tech trading equalising any advantage you might have gained, etc. City states will queer that mix by the value of their alliance. Especially the exciting sounding irrational ones like Geneva (I think), especially as they won't have their own army to do their bidding.

The other thing that excites me is that threat someone (Shafer?) made that the AI will really REALLY want to win, and are going to be more likely to try something unexpected and underhanded. I think this may ultimately be connected to the resource issue, which will make access to every resource site vital for building both empire and war-machine.

I'm not delighted to see tech trading gone - I thought it was a fairly good thing and I feel some kind of international intellectual crosspollination would be necessary to recreate that part of the world's development, but then again, what would I know - I'm beautiful rather than brainy...

 

[Pouakai]

For me the biggest anticipation is for the new features of City-states and Natural wonders.

 

[Emstinson]

I, sadly perhaps, can not even begin to curb my enthusiasm for the possibilities of the scout unit. Will they start with extra visibility or will the promotion atleast be easily obtainable and then will the American UA add on? And then lastly will they be able to embark on their own? Those would be some serious aides to detecting encroaching enemy war vessels... Oh I can't wait, the naval possibilities are what I am most anticipating and the use of scouts no doubt. I couldn't keep scouts outside of my territory in IV without some random barbarian horse archer coming out of nowhere to kill them. Knowing where they are coming from will help a lot and allow us to keep scouts on our borders to increase awareness of our enemies!!! Assuming what I've read is true atleast

 

[Seven05]

Things that I'm most hyped about with Civ 5...

1) It finally being released so all of the speculation and bickering can be replaced by whining and bickering.

2) Moving away from Python, Python is an ancient Chinese torture for programmers, cruel and unusual punishment. If Civ 5 moved to scripting with punch cards it would be an improvement. I guess I could say modding in general, hopefully Civ 5 will give us more options that we had previously, that would be good by itself but without Python it will be spectacular!

3) It's new! Sure, Civ 4 was a great game and provided me with countless hours of entertainment, but it was old and since the TBS genre is horribly neglected a new Civ is the best I could hope for.

4) Hexes! Silly developers, square tiles are for kids.

5) 1upt (One unit per tile, not to be confused with slang- one upped)! I failed miserably in my attempts to convince Civ gamers that stacks were bad, now Firaxis has done it for me.

6) City States! These open up so many possibilities (hopefully... damn, there I go speculating), I look forward to proxy wars in particular. I can't wait to make my minions wage war for me... erm, I mean to convince my valuable allies that our common enemy is a threat to their way of life!

That's about it for me.

PS- WTB Cheap vacation tickets for wife & daughter from Sept 21st through October 21st.

 

[The_J]

Listen to Ahriman and Tomice, and later, if they posts, to Mercade and Arioch, that should be enough.

And please note many bad things about steam .

 

[Plughead]

Thanks for all the comments, keep 'em coming

Basically, any thoughts about what you think is the most important element, specifically to you. The more personal and, indeed, ludicrously specific, the better.