Team 5 Starting Position

[topas]

just to add one little point to my calculations:

I forgot (or neglegted) the fact, that we have a forrested plains spice at the river (1F2H1C), when I made these rough calculations.
Of course, we should work this tile instead of one of the above mentioned forrested grasland-hills (1F2H). That is a nice bonus commerce, but it won't change the calculations on food and hammers. The effect on research should also be rather small. (at most shaving of 1 turn on BW, which is nice, but it's not messing up the calculations)


Further it would be really great if someone could check the calculations
(I just found that Pacal-Save from HUSch in this thread and will try my proposed beginning there.
I don't know if the map-type and the map-size in that save are the same as in the upcoming PB-save (and the number of opponents). So I don't know if we can use the research turns from that save since these depend on these data.)

 

[HUSch]

Topas
You lost every turn 1 , if you wait more than 10 turns. So we lost 7 from 10. That isn't good.
If we start with warrior we must finish it, before we begin any other.

 

[Hummel]

Topas
You lost every turn 1 , if you wait more than 10 turns. So we lost 7 from 10. That isn't good.
If we start with warrior we must finish it, before we begin any other.

We have to optimize the production of our first worker. The warrior is only a coproduct of the city-output.

By the way: I would slave the worker as soon as possible. So we don't lose so much worker-production.

 

[topas]

Topas
You lost every turn 1 , if you wait more than 10 turns. So we lost 7 from 10. That isn't good.
If we start with warrior we must finish it, before we begin any other.

I didn't get your point at the moment.

The Worker will take 10 turns. In these 10 turns we shouldn't loose any hammers. (Maybe we will lose 1 hammer in the last turn of the Worker, but after loosing 1 hammer this case is still in better of than a Worker first strat.

We have to optimize the production of our first worker. The warrior is only a coproduct of the city-output.

By the way: I would slave the worker as soon as possible. So we don't lose so much worker-production.

Right.
We get the warrior more chance than we get it because we actually pushed for it.

Concering whipping the worker:
I would probably do so as well.
We just need 23 Hammers in the Worker to whip it, which means 4 turns of production (= 4x6H = 24H).
Wishing to do so, we'll be most probably constraint by the BW-research...
(But we should calculate beforehand, weather it's better the whip the worker or a couple of turns later a WB...)

 

[HUSch]

I 've read wrong.
The best for worker with pop 2 is, that we get the bonus from exp with 4 .

But whipping neeeds 1 turn anarchy. That should be done later, when the worker is working.

 

[topas]

HUSch
I tried my proposel in the save you posted here before and I didn't loose a hammer. (probably because worker takes exactly 10 turns to produce)

Further I noticed, that we had produced 5 turns into the worker when BW was finished. So, in case research costs are exactly the same in the PB-save, we can also finish the warrior (t8) before starting the worker and whip the worker after 4 turns (in t13 after revolt into slavery in t12).
That way we have our worker in the same turn as we would have had it when starting with a workern, but we got an extra-warrior "for free".

 

[DaveShack]

I've always thought it's better to grow to pop 2 before a worker build. I'm glad someone else agrees.

With events on, if we go into slavery we take a risk of getting the slave revolt event. If we don't have gold to pay off the workers, we could see several turns of effective anarchy. This event makes the whip a lot less attractive.

 

[Unionfield]

I am going to go with moving the Settler 1 space north.

 

[Hummel]

I've always thought it's better to grow to pop 2 before a worker build.

But - sorry - this is wrong. It's always better to produce the worker first, but in this case we have a special situation cause we are expansive and can't use this benefit in the first 5 turns.

 

[DaveShack]

But - sorry - this is wrong. It's always better to produce the worker first ...

I've learned to be cautious about statements with always and never. One counter example is sufficient.

The obvious one is a start where you have no tiles which can be improved with the currently known techs. A less obvious case is when the total production, food, and commerce at the end factoring in both the growth and tile improvement is better for the growth first case.

I don't approach this question with a calculator though. Financial with fishing and seafood -> workboat. Floodplains w/o resources->warrior (don't want to waste time irrigating then building cottages). Cattle but no grain->warrior -- won't have AH up front and don't want to waste time irrigating then pasturing. And so forth. This one feels like a warrior first is correct.

 

[HUSch]

But - sorry - this is wrong. It's always better to produce the worker first, but in this case we have a special situation cause we are expansive and can't use this benefit in the first 5 turns.

How get you 4 in the CC with pop 1?

 

[peter grimes]

HUSch - any idea when you're planning on playing the turn? I think there's been near unanimous agreement about moving the warrior to the hill 1E of his current location to see if there are any game-changing resources.

Do we need more discussion at that point before settling and starting research?

Also, we'll need to determine a city name - even if it's simply TBD*

*this is actually the name a friend of mine settled on for his bar/lounge simply because he'd been using that as a placeholder for so long on his paperwork

 

[topas]

HUSch - any idea when you're planning on playing the turn? I think there's been near unanimous agreement about moving the warrior to the hill 1E of his current location to see if there are any game-changing resources.

Do we need more discussion at that point before settling and starting research?

Also, we'll need to determine a city name - even if it's simply TBD*

*this is actually the name a friend of mine settled on for his bar/lounge simply because he'd been using that as a placeholder for so long on his paperwork

I guess HUSch went offline. We already have 1am...

I checked the screenshot of HUSch. maybe it's better to move SE. There seems to be a hill 3-6 of the warrior which would prevent us from seeing the tile 2 o the hill which would be quite interesting to see...

 

[HUSch]

Should I play now the warrior at 6? I 'll do it. I can't connect.

 

[topas]

10 hours left and Dave fixed the game.

We should move our warrior asap, if we want to finally discuss where to settle...

Is it still correct, that the majorty would settle in place unless our warrior find something very interesting?

 

[DaveShack]

I agree on the move. There have been lots of comments about city location, but not very persistent.
Don't remember if I've commented -- I'd settle in place. It is a created map after all...

 

[peter grimes]

My impression is that the majority have said settle in place, unless something crazy is seen after the warrior move.

I'd say we should move the warrior within an hour or so if HUSch doesn't get to it first.

 

[HUSch]

I 've moved the warrior and see bananas.

I prefer the old point to settle. the bananas for the next city. We need calender to gain the bonus.

I think we will wait 6 hours til the deciding.

 

[DaveShack]

I say settle in place too.

 

[topas]

Yes, settle in place.

The bananas need IW to chop the jungle (and of course calendar for the plantage, but we can irrigate them before...)