Team Chat

[1889]

I hate chats normally but Dutch and Theo did such nice work in the recent Aloha chat that I'm wondering if we should try to set up a team chat.

I'm in Alaska, GMT -10 or something and would need to know what program to install.

 

[dutchfire]

The Netherlands, GMT +2.

I think the best program to use is MSN Messenger, as both Theoden and I use it. If you have Windows XP it should be installed automatically, just look in Start, Programs, and then Windows Messenger. To chat, you need a .NET-account and an email-adress, you can get one for free, and it isn't much work to do.

When you have an account and are logged in, you have to add someone to your contact list to see if they're online and to chat with them. There's a add contact button at the bottom of your screen. You have to give their emailadress (mine is evldrunen@msn.com), and then they'll appear in your contact list. If there's a green icon in front of their name, then they're online. To chat with them, just double-click on their name.

A new sceen will appear, you can type in the box in the bottom of your screen, and when you press enter, the text will appear in the middle of your screen. Messages from the person you're chatting with will also appear there.

I hope that's clear

 

[1889]

Great, thanks. All done and I'm edandjane@gci.net

 

[Theoden]

Great, thanks. All done and I'm edandjane@gci.net

I've added you.

 

[dutchfire]

Me too

 

[dutchfire]

- = dutchfire
1889 = 1889
Mikkel = Theoden

Spoiler log :

-zegt:
hi
1889 zegt:
Hi dutch
- zegt:
I'll invite Theoden...

Mikkel is aan het gesprek toegevoegd.

- zegt:
hi
1889 zegt:
Its 4:30 Am here, a little late, or early.
- zegt:
it's 14.35 here, perfect time on a day of
1889 zegt:
I'm usually done by about 2.
1889 zegt:
Shall we dioscuss the MTDG?
- zegt:
sure
- zegt:
have the Alohans already accepted our deals? (maps+ guilds)
1889 zegt:
Everybody fine with an invasion of Loco in about 12 turns
1889 zegt:
We have the map, but I didn't look at techs
- zegt:
okay, did it reveal anything interesting?
- zegt:
which units can be there in 12 turns?
1889 zegt:
Map reveals a possable trade route
1889 zegt:
4 galleys full of stuff on their shores in 12
1889 zegt:
4 cats, a longbow, 2 mace and a camel
- zegt:
okay, sounds good
- zegt:
if we don't have enough transportation, it might be good to drop some units on the small island in front of their coast
1889 zegt:
I just want Piffle to move their warrior
1889 zegt:
I want the first wave to be total suprise
1889 zegt:
As for transport we'll have an extra galley infact
- zegt:
okay
1889 zegt:
Hmm, I guess thats really about it then.
- zegt:
Mo Tzu, the prophet
1889 zegt:
Oh right good ol' Mo
- zegt:
I've taken a look at the lightbulb preferences
1889 zegt:
he should settle down in Chowderton or Wheelvill
- zegt:
we have philosophy right?
1889 zegt:
1114 toward Divine Right is what it said
- zegt:
yeah, but if we could trade for that with aloha it would lightbulb (from the top of my head): philosophy, education, printing press, liberlism
1889 zegt:
Good idea
1889 zegt:
even with 1000 beakers I wonder how long it would take us to research any of them
1889 zegt:
From the last few chats I get the impression that our science department is worst in the game
- zegt:
Meditation
Polytheism
Priesthood
Monotheism
Theology
Divine Right
Mysticism
Masonry (Warlords patch)
Code of Laws
Civil Service
Monarchy
Literature
Music
Writing
Philosophy
Printing Press
Drama
Alphabet
Paper
Education
Liberalism
Calendar
Masonry (Vanilla & unpatched Warlords)
Animal Husbandry
Construction
Future Tech

- zegt:
worst, I do hope that we're better than Loco
- zegt:
we have music and philosophy (right?), so it would lightbulb Printing Press
1889 zegt:
3rd place out of 5 still isn't too hot though
1889 zegt:
I'd like to capture loco cities rather than raze
1889 zegt:
that would put us back on the map
1889 zegt:
I don't know about the tech though
- zegt:
we aren't doing that badly actually, our research is crappy, but we're one of the biggest teams in terms of territory and population
1889 zegt:
I get the feeling that the time for building is over and the game is entering the warfare phase
1889 zegt:
Yes asside from science I think we kick ass
- zegt:
I think that we can win this game by taking out Loco, and then just settle all the territory between us and Loco, and only worry about our defences
1889 zegt:
also have you noticed that our team has the smartest member?
- zegt:
no?
1889 zegt:
Maybe so although I don't want to settle any more cities between us and Loco
1889 zegt:
That land kinda sucks
- zegt:
not directly, but in the long term we can settle a lot of decent land (running mercantilism and possibly representation)
1889 zegt:
any more cities will need to be on our east or west coasts
1889 zegt:
When do we get representation?
- zegt:
constitution
1889 zegt:
I'm not sure the game would last that long
- zegt:
well, it will take some time before anyone has 60% of the land, everyone is now at like 20%
- zegt:
even less I think, about 10%
1889 zegt:
If we can get a domination win we can get a conquest win much sooner
- zegt:
I doubt that, we'd have to knock out all cities, that would be a lot of work.
1889 zegt:
hmm well how many PBEMs have ever finished with other than conquest win
1889 zegt:
Unless the last team has decided that itr was hopeless and just quit
- zegt:
I think that most end with domination
- zegt:
the civIII pbem ended that way
- zegt:
I meant civIII MTDG
1889 zegt:
I'm Skeptical
1889 zegt:
I think hitting people hard now is in our favor
- zegt:
(last time I checked, Epsilon was in lead in territory with 10,00%)
1889 zegt:
with our ecenomy we may face serious troble in the late game
- zegt:
I think we should hit now, then develop for some time while the other teams are hitting eachother, and then try to win
Mikkel zegt:
hi both of you
- zegt:
hi
1889 zegt:
getting the other teams to beat eachother will we stay out of it is the hard part
1889 zegt:
Epsilon can get to us without too much trouble
- zegt:
defending land is easier than attacking, if you have enough catapults
Mikkel zegt:
what have you discussed this far?
- zegt:
attack plan, what to do with our prophet
- zegt:
how to win long-term
1889 zegt:
What to do with the prophet and if you are all excited for the upcoming invaion of Loco
Mikkel zegt:
since we've spent so much on an army there really is no other option... but im looking forward to the invasion anyway
Mikkel zegt:
and what's the options for the prophet?
1889 zegt:
settle or lightbulb
- zegt:
lightbulbing a part of DR (that sucks), or trying to trade with ALoha for DR and lightbulb a part of PP
- zegt:
but that's to complicated, and would distract us from the Astronomy-MT path
1889 zegt:
Ah, right
- zegt:
by the way, if we're going for MT, we should hook up some horses
1889 zegt:
that will take another city
- zegt:
yep, I think we already have some sites outlined in that area, correct?
1889 zegt:
I'll look into it and post something in the forum next turn
1889 zegt:
we have been disagreeing about those sites for some time
1889 zegt:
I'd like to ask how you feel about capturing Loco rather than razing
- zegt:
Be right back
1889 zegt:
the problem is that I am unsure of how much maintenace those cities will cost
Mikkel zegt:
could you make a test in WB like you've done before?
Mikkel zegt:
to get some exact numbers
1889 zegt:
Inflation and civics options are making those exercise very tough
1889 zegt:
it was about 7 gold I think
1889 zegt:
but we can build courthouses and a forbiden palace down there
1889 zegt:
especially if we switch backj to slavery
1889 zegt:
I think we can do it but it might be uncomfertable
Mikkel zegt:
but they have three holy cities which makes it more worthwhile to keep them
Mikkel zegt:
but yes, we'd have to switch to slavery to whip courts
1889 zegt:
I have never found extra holy cities to be worth much
Mikkel zegt:
if they have shrines
1889 zegt:
Their capitol does have a budhist shrine already but that will be one of the last cities to fall
Mikkel zegt:
that could be a use for our prophet... to make shrines in one of the cities we capture that has a widespread religion
1889 zegt:
Yes, but then we have to go through all the trouble of spreading it
Mikkel zegt:
it was only if one of them was spreadout already... i can't remember if they are
1889 zegt:
I think two cities are jewish. one is christian And ofcourse one is Hindu
1889 zegt:
starts to load the save
Mikkel zegt:
it'll be quite a crusade then
- zegt:
just checking the f7 screen will tell us which religion is spread most
1889 zegt:
Hinduism is 25%, Confusian 18 Islam and Budhism 14 christian 4 jewish 2
1889 zegt:
tao 14 also
Mikkel zegt:
only buddhist city is worth something then...
1889 zegt:
things seem to be slowing down.
1889 zegt:
So thans for hooking me up Dutch
1889 zegt:
its been fun should we make it a habit?
Mikkel zegt:
that would be good if we can overcome the timezone differences... although my concern would be that handling more of the decisions by chat makes it even harder for any new members to get active
1889 zegt:
most of this stuff is done in the turn tracker really though
Mikkel zegt:
i know, i just want to make sure it doesnt go overhand with all the chatting
1889 zegt:
sure good point, baby is up so I gotta go.
1889 zegt:
so long
Mikkel zegt:
bye

1889 heeft het gesprek verlaten.

- zegt:
i'll post the log in our thread

 

[1889]

Gah! I really need to get my typing under control.

 

[1889]

Dutch and I had a little chat this morning, afternoon today.

Spoiler :

1889 says:
MTDG chat?
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
okay
1889 says:
You read the turn report yet?
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
yes, I did
1889 says:
I've been having doubts about the prudence of declariong war on Loco
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
well, they seem to be very backwards (they didn't have construction the last time I checked!), so we should be able to at least raze some cities
1889 says:
I'm thinking that it may not be worth our while to do so
1889 says:
They aren't even in our league anylonger
1889 says:
Its almost beneath us to invade, plus its risky and expensive
1889 says:
Mostly expensive. I worry about our tech rate
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
well, I do think that we should expand more to increase that on the long term
1889 says:
Building more cities near home may provided greater returns than capturing them from Loco
1889 says:
I also consider the ramafications of declaring war
1889 says:
The teams will have to choose sides quite quickly
1889 says:
I think it would be us and a reluctant Aloha vs. Epsilon, Piffle and Loco
1889 says:
So what is B3 heeft weer gewonnen?
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
It's Dutch for B3 (my soccer team) wins again
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
we have won 2 matches in the last three weeks, and 3 matches since last september
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
so we're doing above average
1889 says:
Is that a team your on or just a favorite to watch?
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
the team I'm on
1889 says:
Congrats
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
it's a youth team (letters represent different ages, A is oldest, then B, C, D, E and F is for the real youngsters)
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
Thanks
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
by the way, you appear to be offline in my MSN, and I think you didn't receive these messages:
"It might, we should talk it through with Aloha and piffle"
1889 says:
be right back
1889 says:
I don't know how to fix my offline status. I'll have to look into that
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
It's just a pecularity of the program, Theoden has problems with it often too
1889 says:
I agree we can talk to Aloha about it, we can reopen talks with Loco about some things too, especially if they get invaded by Epsilon
1889 says:
but I don't know what we have to talk to {Piffle about
1889 says:
Also just checking, its 5:30 pm or so for you?
B3 heeft weer gewonnen! says:
yes
1889 says:
Well it 7:30 am here and time to do the morning thing I gotta get going

 

[1889]

A conversation with Theoden:

Spoiler :

Never give out your password or credit card number in an instant message conversation.

1889 says:
Got time to talk about MTDG?
Mikkel says:
yes
1889 says:
So I'm thinking attacking Loco may not be worth the risks after all
Mikkel says:
but what about all the resources we've spent mustering the army?
1889 says:
Most of the troops could be used to to replace our warrior garison
1889 says:
the ships can be used to explore a little more and open the last few trade routes
1889 says:
We would end up with a few more catapults than I would other wise build and maybe 2-3 extra galleys
1889 says:
but the plan instead would be to expand into the rest of our home continent and so the rest of the troops could be used there
Mikkel says:
but have you considered the value of Loco's land? Since we're invading their core, there will be lots of matured cottages. And they give lots of $ either when we work them with our captured cities or as targets for pillaging. Just pillaging half of their improvements would more than pay our costs
1889 says:
When I played the last turn and saw Epsilon's caravel I began to imagine how just one that one ship could upset our invasion and reinforcment plans. I was already upset that our invasion would have to be carried out without suprise and this last fact sent up red flags
Mikkel says:
We could strike a deal with Epsilon then
1889 says:
I was forced to realoise how risky that plan could be and considering ouir demographic success in almost every other sector of the game I just didn't think it was worth the risk
1889 says:
I was thinking we would strike some deal with Loco acctually
1889 says:
But what did you have in mind?
Mikkel says:
Try to make Epsilon agree to not do whatever it is you don't want them to do
Mikkel says:
you mean extortion of Loco?
1889 says:
We are Epsilons main rival, only real rival, so I'm noit sure what we could offer them to get them to agree not to attack us in Loco. I was thinking lets just try to work out some tech for gold deal luke Loco wants. Horse riding is no biggy for example
Mikkel says:
I don't really like paying for what you could just take...
1889 says:
Remember the fall of Rome game? I sent that huge expensive invasion along the north road toward your bakward barbarian nation. Magzi had a unit on a hill and watched me march past, but he was friendly at the time so I thought no biggy. That invasion was pretty big but it failed to take a single city because you were warned right?
1889 says:
I learned my lesson in that game, but now our invassion is being observed by Piffle and Epsilon and I don't really want to sail under those conditiuons. I don't trust either of them to not warn Loco.
1889 says:
Even though Loco is no match they can cause a lot of trouble for us if they started spamming archers and especially if Epsilon used their invasion to help out say gifting a bunch of troops.
1889 says:
Beacuse Loco isn't going to win the game they are the perfect pawn for such machinations
Mikkel says:
I can't remember exactly but I don't think Magzi warned me... to be honest you were just about to break through and after that surprise I placed scouts everywhere in a line outside my territory prevent future suprises
1889 says:
Well its a pretty good lesson anyway
Mikkel says:
with catapults the archers shouldn't be too hard anyway and if they only have archers left it's a perfect time to pillage
Mikkel says:
I've always been good at the last line defense thing and rushing units to get there just in time
Mikkel says:
was the army expensive though? because it was nothing compared to the army I came with later to raze your city
1889 says:
Well we can still go ahead with the invassion then. Ships are set to sail in 2 turns. But I think we can pretty much count Piffle and Epsilon as enemiys now Loco will be forced to join them so Aloha is our only friend and with us occupied they can be put under a lot of preassure.
Mikkel says:
I'm not so sure about that... Loco seems to be left outside and seems unable to get any friends so I'd think they'd be incapable of getting any support
1889 says:
We need better naval technology and while capturing Loco should give us a nice science rate latter I wonder what we will do in the short term while our armies are ferryed accross in galleys while our enemies rule the seas with galleons at least.
1889 says:
An invassion may make them more friendly toward Epsilon
1889 says:
All I know is that I should have won that fall of Rome game
Mikkel says:
well, we have to fight the war pretty quickly so noone gets greedy and attacks our mainland. and of course we should be building more troops at home that will take a defensive role in the case of a surprise attack
Mikkel says:
you were pretty darn close
1889 says:
The quickly part may be the problem. Then we could be facing Epsilon's galeons on our west coast while we are still passifying Loco, aided by Piffle say. Would aloha be willing to jump in on our behalf. I'm not willing to bet on it right now.
1889 says:
If we do nothing then maybe Epsilon will be forced to attack Loco and we can do this same stuff to them.
Mikkel says:
I wouldn't bet on that though..
Mikkel says:
we could make it a raid then... raze and pillage to aid our economy
1889 says:
Also if nobody attacks Loco then things remain as they are and we can build 4-5 more cities at home and continue winning with demographics
1889 says:
A raid has the same effect as war and makes Loco an implacabalew enemy. They are out of the game really already. If they loose a city theyt will have nothing better to do than make life misserable for us.
1889 says:
Sorry, you wouldn't bet on what part?
Mikkel says:
on the other hand we could lose ground to Loco by continuing peacefully making future wars more costly
Mikkel says:
on the epsilon attacking loco and us begin able to surprise them part
1889 says:
We saw those catapults in their southern city and they are working toward galeons. The info about them planning an invasion of Loco came from Piffle so it may be a bluff, but the real target then could only be us or Aloha. In either case we need to not get tied down in a war with the last place team
Mikkel says:
If we are going to make a war with Loco at some point this might be the best
Mikkel says:
but annexing other civs, even weal ones, is a very powerful way to solidify a position
1889 says:
while history is made on another continent. Like I said in the short term an invassion will slow down our tech rate and put ocean going ships further in the future. A better navy is one of our most inmportant priorities
Mikkel says:
if we pillage i don't think our tech rate will be harmed
1889 says:
Supply cost alone for that fleet is 5-6 gold per turn so if we pillage every turn we can stay about even but what about WW and lost production of replacing units. It could work out but it is a risk and I think an uneccessary one.
Mikkel says:
We should also consider that Loco will likely be bought as an ally by Epsilon in the future and could be a major pain if they are still somewhat capable...
1889 says:
I'd also ask you to consider what happens else where in the world while we fight in Loco? When we are tie up there Epsilon and Piffle no longer have to worry about us interferring in their plans.
1889 says:
Yes thats very true
1889 says:
still if they are just mercenaries then we can play that to
Mikkel says:
well they could very well be planning a war against aloha
1889 says:
Then we would have to help Aloha i think
Mikkel says:
that could lead us back to the original plan of distracting epsilon in locoland
1889 says:
Regardless of who controls Loco if Aloha goies down so does our chance at victory
1889 says:
Hmm...
Mikkel says:
by making an alliance with them
1889 says:
Well I'm not saying we should attack Loco, I'm saying not yet. I want galleons and supprise
1889 says:
I mean I'm not saying we shouldn't attack loco....
Mikkel says:
well, how long would it take to muster a proper "surprise" attack force?
1889 says:
Caravels are 12 turns away. Astronamy would be after that.
1889 says:
I'm loading the game
Mikkel says:
well, that could be acceptable
1889 says:
we have some very nice civics choices in 2 turns but right now with science back up to 80% Astronamy would take 37 turns
1889 says:
#7 turns from right now, not 37 after caravels
Mikkel says:
Idon't really know... that's a lot of turns
Mikkel says:
And I've been looking forward to this war
Mikkel says:
but I can certainly see the reasoning for waiting
1889 says:
Well You've given me some more to consider as well. Lets keep with the inavsion plan for now and get together again before launch.
Mikkel says:
sounds like a good idea
1889 says:
I'll post this in the forum. So long.
Mikkel says:
see you

 

[dutchfire]

Spoiler :

- zegt:
hi
Mikkel zegt:
hi
1889 zegt:
Weather we decide for war or peace we also have interesting civic combinations.
1889 zegt:
Can we talk about war or peace first?
- zegt:
sure
Mikkel zegt:
yes, what's your stance after thinking it over?
1889 zegt:
I think it is now too risky. Our fleet will be at the mercy of our competitors and suprise is long gone.
- zegt:
I think we should attack them, and depending on their strength, either take everything they have, or just raze a part of their country and sue for peace.
Mikkel zegt:
I'm inclined towards the raid and pillage strategy
1889 zegt:
Razing will hurt them, but they are already hurting I think. It will also make them implacable foes for the rest of the game. If we do not destroy them we esentially give all their remaining strength to Epsilon.
Mikkel zegt:
but their remaining strength will be ~zero
1889 zegt:
Our raid would destroy only one city, they can still rebuild. As Epsilon's vassel they can still provide trade, gold and units. I would rate the strength of a desperate and hopeless civ far above zero.
1889 zegt:
They will still have two religious capitols.
Mikkel zegt:
why do you think we would only take one city?
1889 zegt:
Epsilon could just sink most of our fleet with their caravel and our raid would be two units washed ashore. I'm seeing the worst outcomes and you are seeing the best. I don't know how to measure the likelyhood of these possabilities except to imagine how you would react if you were Loco or Epsilon.
- zegt:
well, I think that if Epsilon would sink our fleet, the whole world would be against them
Mikkel zegt:
If I were Epsilon I'd have a long term plan, which included splitting other civs and allying with a middle strong civ and no one else... If I were Loco I would rpobably be completely helpless facing the situation and completely inept at doing any contructive diplo
Mikkel zegt:
or rather I think Loco would be, not that we would act so helpless in their situation... it's just that they seem to have a very weak team
1889 zegt:
Very well, we'll sail to Loco. Plese try and get that Non-agression pact with Epsilon and I'll offer the resources to Piffle.
Mikkel zegt:
are you sure? I mean, I'm in doubt about the decision as well...
1889 zegt:
I have no more authority than you on the matter, your outcomes can be as likely as mine. All I can think is leave it to a vote and keep reevaluating our decision.
1889 zegt:
Civics are next on the agenda. We need to choose between building good units or helping our economy.
Mikkel zegt:
ok, the question is then.. should we sial straight away or try to wait a few turns for a subtle path
1889 zegt:
We will not be sneaking past those ships any time soon.
1889 zegt:
Anyway Loco will spot our fleet 4 turns out.
Mikkel zegt:
Fine, I shall then make a standard for our army claiming our motto "screw subtlety"
Mikkel zegt:
but BOT... i think we should have either vassalge or theology so our units get that extra promotion from the beginning
Mikkel zegt:
but both isn't neccesary
1889 zegt:
Best wartime civics would be Vassal, Slavery, Theocracy
1889 zegt:
Best economy civics Burea, Caste, OR
Mikkel zegt:
We don't need to switch to slavery before we actually need to rush
- zegt:
serfdom is good, with the number of workers we have
1889 zegt:
Caste system lest us get max use out of Mercantilisms' free specialist because not all our cities have the neccessary buildings yet.
Mikkel zegt:
it also allows us to run artists in the cities we capture for quick border pop
Mikkel zegt:
i think switching around the labour civic often could be beneficial and a great use of our trait
- zegt:
we have to wait about 5 turns between switches though
Mikkel zegt:
not too bad... if we do the pop rushes every five turns we can alternate between slavery and either caste system or serfdom depending on our situational needs
1889 zegt:
Well I like Caste and Theocracy for right now. What are your opinions about Burea and Vassalage?
- zegt:
If we have Theo, there's no real need for Vassalage, is there?
Mikkel zegt:
well, it'll enable units to reach 10xp after just one battle
Mikkel zegt:
meaning they can heal after their first battle, giving us more speed
Mikkel zegt:
and then there's the extra unit support
1889 zegt:
2 more XP vs. 50% more gold and hammer in wheelville. infact production stinks in Weelville so mostly its about the gold.
- zegt:
50% commerce! Shrine money is not included
1889 zegt:
Forget it then thats only 6 more gold
1889 zegt:
Vassalage, Caste , Theocracy and a bold armada sailing south. Anything else?
- zegt:
expansion plans, new settlers
Mikkel zegt:
if we are going to hold any of loco cities, besides off course the buddhist shrine, we shouldn't found too many cities as well
1889 zegt:
Magadan finishes the settler in 7 and I'll see where we can build the next one.
1889 zegt:
Not a pressing matter just yet I guess.
- zegt:
Forbidden Palace, in Locopotamia, or in Polynesia
Mikkel zegt:
my suggestion would be to start the next settler around the same time the one inmagadan is finished
Mikkel zegt:
we could whip it in one of locos large cities
1889 zegt:
That was also my thinking.
1889 zegt:
Well that pretty much covers it. Dutch would you like to play the save?
- zegt:
I could if you want
1889 zegt:
Only thing is I think that Longbow needs to march south from Tropicana to the rondezvue point.
Mikkel zegt:
how many will there be to our war decleration then?
Mikkel zegt:
and also, we should wait with the civic switch until war breaks out, to avoid giving too many clues
1889 zegt:
Actually I've got the save loaded up. How bout if I play and post the report a little later?
1889 zegt:
War declaration in 5 turns after I send this one.
- zegt:
sounds good
1889 zegt:
Alright, talk to you guys later.
- zegt:
bye
Mikkel zegt:
see you