Team Python- Monarch Training!

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Not true. Checkout inf2. There was an entire unexplored island that exploded with barbs, most barbs I have ever seen. :eek:
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Help me out HotRod. I drug up the inf2 SG and went through all 15 pages "find"ing the word barb. The only barbs I see mentioned were on the south island with Caesaragustus. Is this the island that you mean? If it is, you can't know whether a Mongol ship when down there, dropped off a warrior, explored a bit and then got killed by a barb horse. Or even that an empty galley peered at the shores from the coast. If any civ, AI included, explored the island, then a barb camp can be formed. But I still contend that until someone exposes the tiles, you can't get barbs. It doesn't have to be you, so in your terms, the island was fog, but it was exposed by someone else.

EDIT: Also, in 1750BC, Gris mentions a barb galley and you don't have MM so the AI definitely could have built a boat before you did.
 
Originally posted by jimmydean


I try to just list everything I did, and why I did it. I try and error on the side of verbosity, so it might be longer, but it explains exactly what I did.

Like you said, I keep notepad open, and just alt-tab betwen the game and notepad. As I move something, I mark it in my turn list. I then posted that file exactly as it was onto the forum. I will be keeping a seperate file for each of my playing times, so that I can tell which one was which.
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Exactly, explained very well.
 
Yes that was the island in question. It was quite some time into the game before we even saw another AI and I don't believe that the Mongols passed us by to get to island with said warrior. I can't prove it but will try to find such an occurance ;).

edit: did some checking on the inf2 thread and Mongols didn't get MM but we may have allowed the barbs to produce by encircling the island and doing some exploring. The hut my have hatched from the barb huts that come up in fog of war areas not the black areas. I stand corrected :blush:. It was a lot of barbs though :D
 
Just a thought, but the fact that it took the Expansionist Russians *this* long to find us might suggest that they're a good distance away. Would it be a good idea to send a warrior south of Tabriz to clear out the barbs, then put priority on settling that area like crazy so that the Russians don't get it first? There's still those oh-so-useful horsies down there...
 
I just took a look at the save, and I have a few comments.

MM things:
Karakorum tweaks: Move the worker from the irrigated wheat to the game. Growth time is the same, but it picks us up an extra two shields. Next turn, after it grows, move from the game to the flood plains. Growth will go to two turns, and because of the extra two shields, the warrior will still come in 1. It'll also put 1 more gold in the treasury.

Ta-Tu is producing 4 shields per turn. Currently, it is wasting 2 shields for every warrior it produces. We should switch production to Archers or Spearmen, so that we don't waste the shields. It will take 5 turns instead of 3 per unit, but in the long run, will be better.

Almarikh, because of corruption, will produce 2 shields whether it is working the plains or the forest. However, if you move the worker to the river plains, it produces an extra gold.

Russia will only pay us 89 Gold for Mysticism, which means that they are researching it. Every turn we wait to make the trade makes it worth less. We will have quite a bit of gold in the bank after that trade. We may want to look at spending it somewhere, as iirc, the other civs become more aggresive if you have a lot of gold in the bank, and they feel they can loot some of it.

We can do 70% research on Polytheism with +1gpt, and have it due in 23 turns. We could even put it at 80%, and run at -1gpt, due in 19. Monarchy would likely be similar, which means with a slight deficit, we could possibly have Monarchy in under 50 turns. It's probably worth switching to this instead of Alphabet, as the Top 5 Cities screen shows Carthage, which is a Commercial civ, and so already has Alphabet (making it mostly worthless in trade if we run into them, or a civ that knows them). If we make the trade with Russia, we can then run at a slight deficit for a long time, and pick up a pair of valuable and useful techs.

Horseback Riding. We want to stay away from this one until we've settled most of our northern terrain. Once two civs on the same continent discover it, the barbs start showing up with horses instead of warriors. Unless you want them pillaging at will, don't trade for it or research it yet.

Civs on our continent. There appear to be only 3 luxury resources on our continent. That would mean that there are only 3 civs. *Generally*, there is one batch of luxes per civ on each continent. Very rarely, that isn't the case, but it's likely true here.

We'll want to get a settler down to that wine collection eventually, so that the Russians don't settle it (they'll probably have a settler on the way to them in the next 15-20 turns).

I can't wait for my next time up :D
 
Originally posted by amirsan
Ok, CG, I dont know if Chieftess is watching but I hope anyways you didnt do muc mistakes :). Ok, to begin with...

*cough* *cough* ;) -Chieftess
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@Amirsan - I think Cheftess is watching us ;).
 
@CG- :) I didn't see that, lol.

Starting my turns.

Jimmy your suggestion are very well thought out though I have something about 4, 5 and 7.

I think trading this to Russia will benefit them more as CF said that they may have met many other civs along meating us. Maybe letting them research it themselves will help us more than an extra 89g, though lemme see how much gold we have stored to make it an official thought.

Going for Polythiesm is a good move instead of Alphabet though going for Monarchy will not help us as much as Republic. Our only war for a while if the Arabs are the only civ in the continent will be with them and needing Monarchy is a waste. Republic can handle the easy war we will have with them and give us surplus gold which we will be able to use.

I realy haven't heard of this or think this is true, I dont think its something we should depend on. ;)



Ok, off to start my turns! I will see if your MMing is good Jimmy and maybe use it if it is. :) It seems good anyways.
 
Well, do the Russians offer us maps or communications? The only way they might've met any other civs is if they have Map Making, either having gotten it themselves or from whatever other civs they might have met. (Unless of course there's a fourth civ on our continent, but given how much we've already explored, I don't think this is the case.) Anyway, if they had Writing (prereq from MM), they'd be able to offer us communications with anyone they'd met, right? I know that only one civ in a trade needs MM to trade maps, so I'm assuming it's the same for Writing/communications.

So, most probably the Russians are on this continent, and haven't met anyone else; if they *have* met someone else, it's only one other civ, and that civ would almost certainly be the last one on this continent.
 
PreTurn- Ok, lemme see looking good. Ok, Jimmy was right on the Capitol MM, did it. Switched Ta-Tu to Spears. Checked with Russia, they are willing to pay 94g, not 89g, we only have 189g in cofferes, took it, it is worth 94g ;). MM Almarik. Good thinking Jimmy, thats how you MM. :) Our capitol's population is too low, though I will fix this later. We have a fortified warrior in Ta-Tu and I dont know why, it only needs two at the most, moved one Offered Iron Working to the Arabs and they only offered 20g back, they have it around the next turn or so I would say. Started Poly on 70% and it takes 27 turns. Pressed space.

1- I was right, the Arabs have IW. Barb moves toward the warrior near the Arabs, moved settler/warrior combo to the geen dot, I think thats where CG was moving it. Moved worker in capitol from Game to Floodplains. Setting up a blockade so the Arabs wont try to sneak through to get some iron. Poly research dropped to 22, Jimmy are you playing ahead??? You know your not supposed to, its called cheating, just to let you know ;). Changed production in Ulaanaabatar from Warrior to Worker, no need for sooo many. Moved Warrior from Almarihk to fog so no barbs show up.

2- Karakorum> Warrior> Warrior (grows to size 4 next turn, warrior due in 3). Almarihk> Warrior> Worker (growing in 5, due in 5). We lost an elite to a conscript barb!!! :mad: :mad: I DONT GET IT! My luck with barbs just suck. I moved warriors around. No deals to be made.

3- Moved scout near silks and found a horsemen, moved one to the right was a warrior barb, moved down and no one was there. Road on the game finished, capitol grew. Moved both workers to mine the BG right next to them. Irrigation near Kazan finished, growth is now 8 turns instead of 16. Moved warrior from chokepoint city last turn and this turn I found a bunch of scattered barbarians, not as much as you think though but enough to murder the warrior, moved it back up. We need a worker in Ta-Tu, its not growing and thats not good.

4- Karakorum> Warrior> Archer (grows next turn, archer due in 4). Ta-Tu> Spear> Worker (due in 3). Ulaanaabatar> Worker> Granary (it will help). Built Hovd on orange dot, started worker. We are now at 5gpt. Nothin much else to do on the MMing part.

5- Archer in Karakorum due on the same time it grows to 6, 2 turns.

6- Horse came from the fog and killed scout... Barb shown up near Kazan ready to take the mountains, I was there first with the warrior garrison there.

7- Still no possible trades, if we haven't noticed, becuase I have, Arabia has Iron in the capitol. We have 15 warriors and 300g, this can be enough for a good rush on them. 300g is enough to upgrade 7 warriors.

8- Karakorum finished Archer, started settler at size six, moved worker from BG to plain valley so the village grows at the same time it builds the settler (4 and 4). Ta-Tu finishes Worker and started Warrior, warrior and then Granary, it is in serious need of growth. Almarihk finished worker and started Warrior, grows in 20 turns like Ta-Tu. Chokepoint city finished Warrior started warrior. Moved the finished archer to attack northern barb camp before they start piling up ;). Moved the Magiot Line up one tile. Started irrigating near Ta-Tu. We have a strong military against both the Russians and Arabs, looks like soon is the time for war. Raised lux. to 10% to keep the peace in the capitol.

9- Moved warrior from Kazan again to defend from barbs. Moved warriors from the Chokepoint city to near the barb camp and we find a wounded elite Russian warrior fortfied. They are in the continent, I would say so.

10- One of the warriors to the south was wounded and when I attack was killed, I used the other warrior to take the camp and we won. Scout found another 2 barbs to the NW Peninsula. Russia has Alphabet and is offering it for 200g, no take, too much for now and we will be getting Poly in 10 turns. The Russians are definatly from this continent becuase they have no boats, DUH, we totally forgot that. I will take 2 more turns to finish the settler.

11- The people love us. Finished upgrading the BG and moved to make road in the ivory. A horsey shows up near Kazan also. Russia has Iron now. We kill warrior near Kazan and Horsey runs away. Karakorum finished Settler, dropped to pop. 5, moved worker from Plain Valley to Flood plains and will grow in 2 and settler finish in 4, THERE WE HAVE IT! Though I have a feeling that next two turns it will grow in 3 turns instead of 2 as planned when entering the size 6. We need to irrigate the river plain to make it complete. I hope I'm not confusing here :). Dispersed northern barb camp, warrior south is starting to explore where the russians came from. The settler is in the capitol so the next player can pick for where it should go.
 
When I grabbed the save, I kind of hit enter on the first turn :help:

Didn't make that mistake anymore though, but yes, most of those calcualtions were done on what would be turn 1 for you.
 
Being a bit bored at work, I captured a screen shot to help illustrate what Amirsan is talking about with the settler factory:

TGPython_SettlerFactory.jpg


Indeed, if you irrigate the river plains you will have a 4 turn settler factory. Irrigating the plains is required because at size six, the sixth worker only can make 1food per turn (fpt). Since he eats 2fpt, you go from +5fpt to +4fpt and can't grow in 2 turns.

Here's how I think about settler factories. Each tile worked requires 2 fpt and 0spt to support the citizen. That means everything over 2fpt is a bonus, (anything under is a minus). All sheilds are bonus. I label each tile with +fpt, +spt as indicated in red above.

First 5 citizens:
Irrigated FP = +1fpt, +0spt.
Irrigated Wheat = +1,+1
Mined BG = +0, +2
Forested Deer = +0,+2
Irrigated Cow = +1, +2

Capital (requires 0fpt) = +2fpt, +1spt

Sixth citizen:
Irrigated Plain = +0,+1

Now here's the trick. Because of the order of calculations inbetween turns, the game will determine food/growth first, then shields. If the city grows in between turns, the extra citizen is added BEFORE shields are calculated.

That means in a normal 4 turn 5-to-7 settler factory, the first turn uses 5 citizens, the second turn uses the food of 5 citizens but the sheilds of 6 citizens, the third turn uses food and sheilds of 6 citizens and the fourth turn uses food of 6 citizens and the shields of 7 citizens.

In this case
Turn: Food/Sheilds
1 5/8
2 5/9
3 5/9
4 5/10
Total 20/36

That means you are wasting a half a warrior for every settler. What can you do about that. Not much until you get out of despotism, unfortunately. Your best option would be to have founded another town that could use the mined BG. Your fifth citizen could have worked another irrigated plains instead yielding
Turn: Food/Sheilds
1 5/7
2 5/8
3 5/8
4 5/9
Total 20/32
And allowing the second city to be making +2spt each turn. With it's captial and no other citizens, this city would make a warrior every 4 turns to escort your 32shield settler every turn.

That is the reason that no overlap is not the best for despotism.

In a better starting position, adding up the shields you might actually beable to build the warrior and the settler in the same town every four turns. Recently I had a capital that was shield rich and food rich. With a little micromanagement I switched back and forth the emphasis from shields (first turn) to food (second through fourth turn) and manage to build warrior/settler pairs every four turns using
Turn: Food/Sheilds
1 4/10 Built Warrior
2 6/9 Grow to 6
3 5/10
4 5/11 Grow to 7, build settler, drop to 5.
Total 20/32

Unfortunately your captial is not that good but it's pretty close. Once out of despotism, mining a hill will let you repeat what I did above.
 
The reason I kept producing warriors for a few reasons:
  1. I was planning on a delayed iron hookup/massupgrade for 30+ swords.
  2. I went to monarchy and each warrior is 1 happy face, up to 3 MP.
  3. Warriors can follow the advancing army, pacifying resistors if the opposition has no offensive to speak of.

These are the same reasons why I NEVER disband obsolete units.
 
Where do you think I developed such strong opinions?;) Therefore he should bear the brunt of your accusations, as well as serve as your scapegoat.:lol:
 
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