Tech Trading is Gods and Kings?

[JuliusIsMe]

Is there tech trading in Gods and Kings?

Moderator Action: Moved to the G&K subforum.

 

[CTH]

Havent heard anything about it, tech stealing is in though

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I hope not.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Doubtful. Since they still have research agreements, having both makes little sense.

 

[albie_123]

Tech stealing and research agreements do it for me. I don't think tech trading makes sense, from either a historical or gameplay perspective.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I think we would have heard about it by now if they were reintroducing it.

I'm happy with research agreements + the new possibility of tech-stealing through espionage. I would also like to be able to see which techs my opponents have researched - I assume espionage will make this possible.

 

[AriochIV]

Realistically, if it's possible to steal a technology, then it should certainly be possible to trade it voluntarily. But I doubt it will be in the game for gameplay reasons, as tech trading tends to hyper-accelerate technological advancement.

I've never been a fan of Research Agreements. They're powerful enough that you can't ignore them, but since your Friendly neighbors regularly and randomly attack you for no reason (on high difficulty levels), they seem mainly to be a chance for the AI to screw you out of gold.

 

[Pazyryk]

This was always my main route to beating Deity in all Civs before V. Let the AI do all the teching and then broker techs to catch up. You could still do this effectively even with the "No Tech Brokering" option (a little harder, but just go for something new and trade it to 10 civs). The problem then is that this becomes the dominant element of the game to the expense of everything else (like city development or strategy).

Civ5 just has a different problem where the whole game revolves around RAs.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

This was always my main route to beating Deity in all Civs before V.

Yeah, that's why I don't miss it too.

 

[MaximusK]

The new diplomatic restrictions on RAs will make it less likely to be able to sign RAs with most the civs on the planets.

How durable will the new friendships be? Can we reasonably expect to be friends with nations in 30 turns if we intend to be? Will there have to be more DoFs etc to ensure this?

 

[Zhahz]

Is there tech trading in Gods and Kings?

Moderator Action: Moved to the G&K subforum.

Hopefully not and hopefully never again. Tech trading is just cheese. The AIs abuse it and players abuse the AI with it. RAs are so vastly superior as way to "trade" tech and even they get abused pretty badly it seems. :/

 

[blackcatatonic]

I'm not really sure I understand how it's possible to abuse the AI with RAs. If anything, it's the other way around as the AI always manages to shaft the player (and themselves) at some point by signing a RA and then declaring war.

 

[Gucumatz]

Hope not

 

[Scarpa]

I'm not really sure I understand how it's possible to abuse the AI with RAs. If anything, it's the other way around as the AI always manages to shaft the player (and themselves) at some point by signing a RA and then declaring war.

I wouldn't really call it abuse, just that RAs can be so powerful that a human can optimize their use to great benefit. Signing big batches of RAs with everyone, paying both sides and manipulating the median are things the AI doesn't do.

 

[Deggial]

I wouldn't really call it abuse, just that RAs can be so powerful that a human can optimize their use to great benefit. Signing big batches of RAs with everyone, paying both sides and manipulating the median are things the AI doesn't do.

Well... yes.

But CiV is a strategy game, after all. Isn't your described strategy just a sophisticated way to play the game? There *should* be a clever way to handel such stuff - as long, as some thoughts are needed.

After all, you have to have the money for so many RAs. You can *not* buy CSs, can *not* buy buildings, can *not* buy military units. There is a trade off! And, in addition, you have to stay peacefull and play the diplomatic game (instigate war between other civs, for example) to avoid DoW against you.

With tech brokering, in contrast, all was quite easy, as described in previous posts.

Conclusion: I really think, RAs are much superior to tech trading.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, I think Research Agreements are better than tech trading, but it's still a bit too dominant.

 

[Scarpa]

Well... yes.

But CiV is a strategy game, after all. Isn't your described strategy just a sophisticated way to play the game? There *should* be a clever way to handel such stuff - as long, as some thoughts are needed.

After all, you have to have the money for so many RAs. You can *not* buy CSs, can *not* buy buildings, can *not* buy military units. There is a trade off! And, in addition, you have to stay peacefull and play the diplomatic game (instigate war between other civs, for example) to avoid DoW against you.

With tech brokering, in contrast, all was quite easy, as described in previous posts.

Conclusion: I really think, RAs are much superior to tech trading.

I agree with you, I was just answering the (not) question about why RAs are abusive. I do think that with the hoped-for changes, mainly more reliable friendships and friendship requirements on RAs, that they will be more scarce. No more 5 RA waves where you vault through an entire era, I hope.

Also, I should add that while I *can* leverage the RA system to utterly dominate the tech race, I generally don't. It's difficult, forces you to tech towards the end of the tree instead of situationally, and once you are way ahead of the AI it's just boring. I generally choose a more casual play style where I just take RAs as offered or when I really need one or two specific techs in the short term.

 

[lolno]

Having tech diffuse based on proximity and trading techs would make sense, though in the real world you don't just hand someone a bag of gold and then suddenly have the ability to apply a new tech throughout a nation, it can be a pretty long process even with assistance.

 

[Glassmage]

RA is good enough for tech "trading".

 

[Pazyryk]

I'm not really sure I understand how it's possible to abuse the AI with RAs. If anything, it's the other way around as the AI always manages to shaft the player (and themselves) at some point by signing a RA and then declaring war.

Easy. Sell all of your resources. Even the last one, as long as you are barely happy. Convert all that gold to RAs. This is an important tool that Deity players use. Many will say they are not dependent on it, but I sure am when I play Deity. The point is that:

1. It is always a good idea to sell, never a good idea to buy
2. The AI never ever sells (assuming the human is a good player) but always buys
3. The AI always gets the bad deal here

Get tons of RAs and win the game. It doesn't matter if you loose one to war. If you loose more than a few, you are doing something wrong.

To me it is kind of like the old tech brokering. It is something I do that the AI doesn't (sure, the AI used to pass techs around via trade, but not in an effective way like the human). It quickly becomes the dominant element of gameplay. Then I don't have to think about city development or strategy any more at all.

But CiV is a strategy game, after all. Isn't your described strategy just a sophisticated way to play the game? There *should* be a clever way to handel such stuff - as long, as some thoughts are needed.

Manipulating AI is fun. The resource selling to fund RAs gets pretty repetitive though. And it is a game that the AI doesn't really play at all. That's when it feels like abuse, whatever you call it. (Whether it's abuse or not, it is certainly boring and repetitive.)