Tech tree and bee-lining

[raxo2222]

Is possible to keep up with other civs on Nobility without beelining?

I research all techs on one columns before going to next one. This made me fall into last place in my current games, as other civs researched Tribialism before me.

Is it possible to catch-up with other civs?
I attached my game save here.

On what difficulty I should play to reach religion and other "first-to-discover-bonus" techs first without beelining?
I'm now in early ancient era.

Screenie of my empire

I like espionage. Maybe my wild investment (25% - 50%) in espionage was what slowed me down.

I don't like beelining.

 

[Thunderbrd]

You may not like it but IMO, if we did not have a tech tree that had some clever strategies woven into it, it would not be a good tech tree. I sometimes do what you're doing for the sake of simplicity but its notably a sub-par method of getting through the tree (and probably should be or else its far too simplistic for a decent game design.)

 

[Taxman66]

I think the espionage investment is your biggest slowdown, I doubt the AIs (or most players put much of anything into it). As for beelining you'll find that the AIs do it and may get to some things before you but they won't be as well rounded. However, some things are worth beelining (or at least skipping to the next column or two without filling out everything in the current one). I'm not sure how the evaluation is made as to who the tech leader is.

Maybe with that massive espinoage investment you should build spies and steal the tech?

 

[RulerOfNothing]

I research all techs on one columns before going to next one. This made me fall into last place in my current games, as other civs researched Tribialism before me.

Wrong. Your decision to run at 50% espionage made you fall into last place. It is quite possible to stay at or near the top if you don't fritter away more than a third of your commerce like that.

 

[raxo2222]

I think the espionage investment is your biggest slowdown, I doubt the AIs (or most players put much of anything into it). As for beelining you'll find that the AIs do it and may get to some things before you but they won't be as well rounded. However, some things are worth beelining (or at least skipping to the next column or two without filling out everything in the current one). I'm not sure how the evaluation is made as to who the tech leader is.

Maybe with that massive espinoage investment you should build spies and steal the tech?

Spies aren't available yet.
EDIT: They are called "ambushers"

Wrong. Your decision to run at 50% espionage made you fall into last place. It is quite possible to stay at or near the top if you don't fritter away more than a third of your commerce like that.

Well, I may be last, but since last hundred turns (when everyone reached ancient)
I became tech leader:

(I'm Washington BTW - America!)

Maybe maintenance costs are hindering them...

So my civ may be small, but apparently I'm catching up.

EDIT: VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!
These other civilizations are getting teared apart by revolutions.

 

[LumenAngel]

Same. AI slow a lot after Sedentary Lifestyle because they focus the Bronze/Lead/Iron working tech a little too much. If they have these ressource, they will be soon more powerful than you. If they dont have them, they will stay behind for a looooong time.

 

[God-Emperor]

Your method of researching things is ridiculous. Try picking the tech that best gives you what you need at the time from the list of those that are currently available; don't even look at the tech tree since the column a tech is in does not matter. This is not beelining in any useful sense of the term and it is also not the best method of deciding what to research (as it involves no planning ahead), but it is better than what you are doing now. I expect you never get any of the "first to research this" bonuses (great people, free techs) since the AI's tend to make a beeline for techs like that. Did you at least skip the religion founding techs that do literally nothing for you if the religion is already founded?

I also would not count on your being the "most advanced civ". That rating is done purely via a count of how many techs you know. That is the entire method. Knowing a lot of cheaper techs puts you higher on the list than knowing later, more advanced and more expensive (and often more useful), techs.

So you, with your spiffy dance steps that you are learning, may be about to be stomped on by a civ that knows copper working and therefore has javelins (which do not require the copper resource, only the tech). In the last screenshot, two civs are researching copper working (and one may be researching a tech past that - metal casting, I think). That means they also already have mining (so their production rate is almost certainly higher than yours), which also requires pottery (which might indicate that their commerce is higher than yours, and their city growth rate is probably higher due to the Granaries) which you also do not know. Any reasonable person is likely to think that they, who know pottery and mining, are more technologically advanced than you are. You might agree when they come over to wipe you out with their more advanced troops (built with the extra production they get from having mines) while you are learning to build better musical instruments (as that is obviously your next tech choice).

By the way: Never run your espionage level over 0 unless you have some specific reason to do so. The AI sometimes does, and that is one of the reasons why you can out-tech them at Noble difficulty. At higher difficulties their bonuses allow them to waste a bit of commerce on espionage without falling behind a human player who does not.

 

[raxo2222]

Your method of researching things is ridiculous. Try picking the tech that best gives you what you need at the time from the list of those that are currently available; don't even look at the tech tree since the column a tech is in does not matter. This is not beelining in any useful sense of the term and it is also not the best method of deciding what to research (as it involves no planning ahead), but it is better than what you are doing now. I expect you never get any of the "first to research this" bonuses (great people, free techs) since the AI's tend to make a beeline for techs like that. Did you at least skip the religion founding techs that do literally nothing for you if the religion is already founded?

I also would not count on your being the "most advanced civ". That rating is done purely via a count of how many techs you know. That is the entire method. Knowing a lot of cheaper techs puts you higher on the list than knowing later, more advanced and more expensive (and often more useful), techs.

So you, with your spiffy dance steps that you are learning, may be about to be stomped on by a civ that knows copper working and therefore has javelins (which do not require the copper resource, only the tech). In the last screenshot, two civs are researching copper working (and one may be researching a tech past that - metal casting, I think). That means they also already have mining (so their production rate is almost certainly higher than yours), which also requires pottery (which might indicate that their commerce is higher than yours, and their city growth rate is probably higher due to the Granaries) which you also do not know. Any reasonable person is likely to think that they, who know pottery and mining, are more technologically advanced than you are. You might agree when they come over to wipe you out with their more advanced troops (built with the extra production they get from having mines) while you are learning to build better musical instruments (as that is obviously your next tech choice).

By the way: Never run your espionage level over 0 unless you have some specific reason to do so. The AI sometimes does, and that is one of the reasons why you can out-tech them at Noble difficulty. At higher difficulties their bonuses allow them to waste a bit of commerce on espionage without falling behind a human player who does not.

Is there still chance to win game, if I reduce espionage to 0 and start to beeline?
There is like 10 eras in game.
So I could play on Settler difficulty and waste some commerce for espionage?
On Settler difficulty I need 60 beakers to research tech, while other civs needs 100 of them comparatively.

I'm still kinda new to this game, as I played or rather tested RoM 2 two years ago (that mod got abandoned) and I wasn't really playing C2C until recently.
I played Civilization 2 like... decade ago.

So I can play like that:
Settler on Prehistoric
Chieftain on Ancient
Warlord on Classical
Noble on Medieval and next eras.

So I could waste commerce on espionage/culture/somethingelse on first three eras.

 

[God-Emperor]

Is there still chance to win game, if I reduce espionage to 0 and start to beeline?

Sure. You are not beat yet. From what little info is available, it looks like you could win. I just suggest that you don't waste commerce if you are not in the lead and be a bit more selective about what you research.

I usually play on Noble difficulty, largely because I am often testing things (building wonders, getting techs first, whatever) and to test something you need to be able to do it which you can't do if the AI beats you to it. By the late classical era there is often no AI that can research any tech that I don't already have. Once I am in the lead like that I often adopt a research strategy that is even more ridiculous that yours. It goes like this: when the "pick something to research" pop-up appears I limit my choices to the ones that take the fewest number of turns to complete, if there is more than one at the same minimum number of turns I go with the one that is the fewest beakers, and if there is a tie I pick the one that obsoletes the fewest things, if there is still a tie then I get to pick whichever one I feel like. That's the sort of silliness you can do at Noble difficulty if you have played well enough to get a substantial lead. (Although I will note that I occasionally drop out of using that method simply because it is too irritating when it means avoiding a tech I want now but there are multiple other techs "the method" would make me research first.)

There is like 10 eras in game.
So I could play on Settler difficulty and waste some commerce for espionage?
On Settler difficulty I need 60 beakers to research tech, while other civs needs 100 of them comparatively.

I recommend not playing on Settler unless you are a complete beginner to Civ. You will probably pick up bad habits if you do. You are doing well enough on Noble that you should keep using it.

So I can play like that:
Settler on Prehistoric
Chieftain on Ancient
Warlord on Classical
Noble on Medieval and next eras.

So I could waste commerce on espionage/culture/somethingelse on first three eras.

There is an option on the BUG menu for flexible difficulty. If you are winning it will increase the difficulty. If you are losing it will decrease the difficulty. You can set minimum and maximum difficulty levels. You can also use the settings for that option to directly set the difficulty to whatever you want whenever you want.

 

[raxo2222]

Sure. You are not beat yet. From what little info is available, it looks like you could win. I just suggest that you don't waste commerce if you are not in the lead and be a bit more selective about what you research.

I usually play on Noble difficulty, largely because I am often testing things (building wonders, getting techs first, whatever) and to test something you need to be able to do it which you can't do if the AI beats you to it. By the late classical era there is often no AI that can research any tech that I don't already have. Once I am in the lead like that I often adopt a research strategy that is even more ridiculous that yours. It goes like this: when the "pick something to research" pop-up appears I limit my choices to the ones that take the fewest number of turns to complete, if there is more than one at the same minimum number of turns I go with the one that is the fewest beakers, and if there is a tie I pick the one that obsoletes the fewest things, if there is still a tie then I get to pick whichever one I feel like. That's the sort of silliness you can do at Noble difficulty if you have played well enough to get a substantial lead. (Although I will note that I occasionally drop out of using that method simply because it is too irritating when it means avoiding a tech I want now but there are multiple other techs "the method" would make me research first.)
Okay. I remember doing that on Civilization 1 XD



I recommend not playing on Settler unless you are a complete beginner to Civ. You will probably pick up bad habits if you do. You are doing well enough on Noble that you should keep using it.
Mmmk, but still I can play on Warlord for whole prehistoric era to get lead position faster.

There is an option on the BUG menu for flexible difficulty. If you are winning it will increase the difficulty. If you are losing it will decrease the difficulty. You can set minimum and maximum difficulty levels. You can also use the settings for that option to directly set the difficulty to whatever you want whenever you want.
I know about it

My replies are in red.

 

[Yudishtira]

Once I am in the lead like that I often adopt a research strategy that is even more ridiculous that yours. It goes like this: when the "pick something to research" pop-up appears I limit my choices to the ones that take the fewest number of turns to complete, if there is more than one at the same minimum number of turns I go with the one that is the fewest beakers, and if there is a tie I pick the one that obsoletes the fewest things, if there is still a tie then I get to pick whichever one I feel like. That's the sort of silliness you can do at Noble difficulty if you have played well enough to get a substantial lead. (Although I will note that I occasionally drop out of using that method simply because it is too irritating when it means avoiding a tech I want now but there are multiple other techs "the method" would make me research first.)

I love that strategy! That's much the same as mine. Though mine is more:
1. Least turns to complete.
2. Leads to the most new units.
3. Leads to the most new techs.
4. Gives a desired civic, wonder, improvement or building.
5. Whichever the most other civs already have.

And yeah you need to break it occasionally (well whenever I feel like it really).

Btw, on increasing difficulty I'm up to Immortal and still 'winning'. If you do other things right, you can well afford to be this 'silly'.

 

[raxo2222]

I started new game on GEM map with 6 civs (each with different unique culture building). I placed them at ocean - 5 of them is in old world on respective continent, and America is on... you know

(I play on Warlord on Prehistoric and Nobility on Ancient and later eras)

Is there way to outpace AIs in techs by entire era? EG. I'm at start of Industrial, while AIs are on start of Renaissance.
I did beeline, although its still challenge to get all "first to research" bonuses.

I seem to have large advantage on other civs:

BTW I attached save.