Tech Tree Discussion

[Hydromancerx]

Here's what I'm referring to.

With Advanced Computers and Biomimetics, you can completely bypass Invisibility. Other than the alt-timeline techs, we've weeded out every dead-end tech, but these two techs can be bypassed. I don't know if this is intended or not.

Does this clear up what I was suggesting?

So they are still linked, just at a much later tech or are there techs that you could completely skip over if you made it to the end of the tree? If so which ones?

Also in your redundancy have you taken in account the Advance Economy techs which can be turned off? Thus they are not redundant if you do not even have the tech turn on in your tree.

 

[Vokarya]

So they are still linked, just at a much later tech or are there techs that you could completely skip over if you made it to the end of the tree? If so which ones?

Also in your redundancy have you taken in account the Advance Economy techs which can be turned off? Thus they are not redundant if you do not even have the tech turn on in your tree.

Usury and Invisibility are the two non-punk techs that you could completely skip over and still make it to the end of the tree.

I do take Advanced Economy into account. There is one redundancy that happens when Advanced Economy is turned on (it is requiring Stock Brokering for Marxism). The only technologies that are subject to being turned on or off through game options are three Advanced Economy techs -- Insurance, Stock Brokering, and Derivatives -- and four Meteorology techs -- Weather Lore, Weather Forecasting, Meteorology, and Climate Models (but surprisingly enough, not Cloud Patterns or Long-Range Forecasting, as far as I can tell). None of my redundancy routes go through those technologies.

 

[Vokarya]

That part yes but actually . . I was talking about the top portion of that post??

OK. What I meant was this. There are now five redundancies left after switching Rudder for Oil Lamps in Commercial Whaling.

Sacrifice Cult:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_MYSTICISM</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Mysticism is redundant: Mysticism – Megalith Construction – Sedentary Lifestyle – Sacrifice Cult.

Road Building:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_TRADE</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_MONARCHY</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Trade is redundant: Trade – Writing – Monotheism – Monarchy – Road Building.

Architecture:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_SURVEYING</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_CITY_PLANNING</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Architecture is redundant: City Planning – Canal Systems – Engineering – Surveying – Architecture.

Chivalry:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_ARMORED_CAVALRY</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_HERALDRY</PrereqTech>
<PrereqTech>TECH_GUILDS</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Guilds is redundant: Guilds – Invention – Armored Cavalry – Chivalry. This is if you fix Invention - I pointed out that there are six technologies that currently require TECH_ALCHEMY and need to be switched to TECH_INVENTION.

VASIMR Propulsion:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_NUCLEAR_PULSE_PROPULSION</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_LAUNCH_ARCOLOGY</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Nuclear Pulse Propulsion is redundant: Nuclear Pulse Propulsion – Launch Arcology – VASIMR Propulsion.

Does that clear it up?

 

[strategyonly]

OK. What I meant was this. There are now five redundancies left after switching Rudder for Oil Lamps in Commercial Whaling.

Sacrifice Cult:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_MYSTICISM</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Mysticism is redundant: Mysticism – Megalith Construction – Sedentary Lifestyle – Sacrifice Cult.

(So what your saying here is move Sed Life to the OR??)

Road Building:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_TRADE</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_MONARCHY</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Trade is redundant: Trade – Writing – Monotheism – Monarchy – Road Building.

Same here move Monarchy to the OR??


Architecture:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_SURVEYING</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_CITY_PLANNING</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Architecture is redundant: City Planning – Canal Systems – Engineering – Surveying – Architecture.

Dont really understand this one, since Architecture is the tech, it cant be in the OR or the AND?? Plus Arch is not even listed in the OR/AND??

Chivalry:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_ARMORED_CAVALRY</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_HERALDRY</PrereqTech>
<PrereqTech>TECH_GUILDS</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Guilds is redundant: Guilds – Invention – Armored Cavalry – Chivalry. This is if you fix Invention - I pointed out that there are six technologies that currently require TECH_ALCHEMY and need to be switched to TECH_INVENTION.

VASIMR Propulsion:

<OrPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_NUCLEAR_PULSE_PROPULSION</PrereqTech>
</OrPreReqs>
<AndPreReqs>
<PrereqTech>TECH_LAUNCH_ARCOLOGY</PrereqTech>
</AndPreReqs>

Nuclear Pulse Propulsion is redundant: Nuclear Pulse Propulsion – Launch Arcology – VASIMR Propulsion.

Again move LA to the OR??

Does that clear it up?

Well . . . look at the red above??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well . . . look at the red above??

You are having one of those days, aren't you? I think you have everything backward. You can remove Mysticism prerequisite from Sacrifice Cult because it is already a prerequisite for Sedentary Lifestyle which is also a prerequisite for Sacrifice Cult.

 

[Vokarya]

You are having one of those days, aren't you? I think you have everything backward. You can remove Mysticism prerequisite from Sacrifice Cult because it is already a prerequisite for Sedentary Lifestyle which is also a prerequisite for Sacrifice Cult.

Exactly. You can remove Mysticism from Sacrifice Cult, remove Trade from Road Building, remove City Planning from Architecture, remove Guilds from Chivalry, and remove Nuclear Pulse Propulsion from VASIMR Propulsion and it will not make one bit of difference to any research path you take. The one remaining tech in all cases except Chivalry can be moved to the <OrPreReqs>, and you can just delete Guilds from Chivalry.

 

[strategyonly]

You are having one of those days, aren't you? I think you have everything backward.

Yeah, probably so, i am going though ALOT of stuff with my Dad right now, and now his memory is starting to slip more and more. He has fallen 4 times in the last 2 months, because of his "false" left leg and is in alot of pain now also. He's just in a bad spot/(mood) right now. But he is 89 going on 90.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@MrAzure

So what is your final draft for the writing techs? Sorry there are so many versions posted with ideas. What did you want exactly.

 

[Azurian]

@MrAzure

So what is your final draft for the writing techs? Sorry there are so many versions posted with ideas. What did you want exactly.

NEW
Pictographs
(x14,y15)
Arithmetic AND Firemaking AND Hunting Tactics

Ideograms
(x20, y 3)
Pictograms AND Sedentary Lifestyle

Calligraphy
(x30 , y 17)
Literature AND Calendar AND Code of Laws


Altered

Mysticism
requires Ceremonial Burial and Pictograms

Pottery
Requires Earth Oven and Ideograms

Priesthood
Requires Caste System and Ideogramx

Insurance
Requires Currency and Calligraphy

Mosaic Working
Requires Aesthetics And Concrete and Calligraphy

 

[Hydromancerx]

And proposed new or moved buildings/wonders/units/promotions/civics/religions/?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok so I sent it to SO with some chnages ...

1. Added Aristocracy to Calligraphy since historically it was done by the elite.

Calligraphy
Location: X30 , Y17
Cost: Same as Code of Laws
Req Techs: Literature AND Calendar AND Code of Laws AND Aristocracy

2. Added back Agriculture to Pottery since it was not in the tech line (Sedentary Lifestyle comes before Agriculture).

Pottery
Req Techs: Agriculture AND Earth Oven AND Ideograms

3. Skipped the changes to Mosaic working and instead changed Aesthetics (which leads to Mosaic Working). It required Alphabet but I think it fit better with Calligraphy.

Aesthetics
Req Techs: Sericulture AND Geometry AND Calligraphy

 

[Azurian]

@ Hydro
I know i made some mistakes with the buildng costs and benefits, and pre and requisites please feel free change stuff around , or delete buildings not up to our high standard. I have building ideas but still learning game balance.

Buildings

Pictographs

Warrior Ritual, Hunting Games, and Camouflage Ceremony allows a player to get more experience points to units if he wishes before mounted units arrive.

Warrior Ritual
-5 gold +1 + 1 :happy
+2 Culture to (American) Culture
+2 Experience Points to Melee
+2 Experience to Axe

Adolescents pass a right of passage to earn their manhood.

Hunting Games
-5 +1 + 1 :happy
+2 Culture to (African) Culture
+2 Experience Points to Archer
+2 Experience to Spear

A series of games to see who can bring down the biggest animal.

Camouflage Ceremony
+2 Culture to (Oceanian) Culture
-5 +1 + 1 :happy
+2 Experience to Hunter
+2 Experience to Recon

Ceremony about agility, survivng in the shadows. To move hidden among your enemies and element of surprise is taught.

Illustration Wigwam (gives a boost to native american culture)
+5 + 2 :happy -3

Native Americans would have a special hut ,( a wigwam), that was devoted to spreading their tales via song, dance,and spoken word.

Replaces Stoyteller Hut

Required Culture Klamath
required Culture Cumash
Required Culture Apache
Required Culture Cherokee
Required Culture Cheyenne
Required Culture Comache
Required Culture Apache
Required Culture Carib
Required Culture Cherokee
Required Culture Hopi
Required Culture Navajo
Required Culture Sioux
Required Culture Tupi


Ideograms
+1 to Fine Clay
+1 to Seal Maker
Move Chitchin Itza here

Parade of Riding
-5 +2 +1 :happy:
+2 Culture to (European) Culture
+2 Experience to Mounted Units
Obsolete with Collosuem


Stylish Mask Seller
+2 +1
+1 :culture with Prime Timber
+1 :culture with Jade
+2 :culture with (African) Culture
Obsolete by Hat Seller

Royal Stela
Stelae were also used as territorial markers, as the boundary stelae of Akhenaton at Amarna,[2] or to commemorate military victories
-3 + 4
Required Culture Zapotec
Required Culture Toltec
Required Culture Quechua
Required Culture Olmec
Required Culture Mayan
Required Culture Aztec
Required Culture Incan
Required Culture Egypt
Required Culture Babylonian
Required Culture Ethiopian
Obsolete by Courthouse

Sun Pyramid

This was before ancestor worship, they build these to mark time and see for miles

+6 -4
Required Culture Zapotec
Required Culture Toltec
Required Culture Quechua
Required Culture Olmec
Required Culture Mayan
Required Culture Aztec
Required Culture Incan
Required Culture Egypt
Required Culture Babylonian


Obsolete by Flight

Geoglyph Artwork (national Wonder)
-6 +7

Similiar to the Nazca Lines, geoglyphs are large artworks created on the ground

Calligraphy
+ 1 with with Dyes
Move Crime (Graffiti) here

Royal Boat Races
+2 Culture to (Asian) Culture
-5 :gold +2 :culture + 1 :happy
+1 Movement to [ boats]

Water racing with boats

Celebration of Faith
-5 :gold +2 :culture + 1 :happy
+2 Culture to (Middle Eastern) Culture
+1 Movement Rage to missionaries


Atlas Designer
+ 1 +1 + 2 : espionage:
+ 2 Experience to to Recon Units
Obsolete with Cartography

Calligraphy Exhibit
+ 2 + 2
obsolete with Art Gallery

Auction House
+ 3 + 1 :happy

Ornamented Scriptures
-4 + 3 + 1 happy
+ 10% greater Great Prophet Emergence
Obsolete by Church

Scripted Manuscripts
-4 + 4
+ 10% greater Great Scientist Emergence
Obsolete by Libary

Financial Records
+4 gold + 1 :espionage
Obsoletes Seal Maker
Obsolete by Bank


Diplomacy
"You have made an attempt to understand our language and we are pleased its bringing us closer".

Academy of Outlines
- 4 gold: + 3 espinage
Requires Petrographs
Obsolete with Nationalism
+ 2 Diplomatic Relation bonus to (African) Culture
+ 2 Diplomatic Relation bonus to (Oceanian) Culture

A special academy to train interpreters to understand petrographs and languages derived from it

Required Culture American
Required Culture European
Required Culture Asian
Required Culture Middle Eastern


Academy of Symbols
Requires Pictographs
- 4 gold: + 4 espinage
+ 2 Diplomatic Relation bonus to (American) Culture
Obsolete with Nationalism

A special academy to train interpreters to understand pictographs and ideograms and languages derived from it

Required Culture African
Required Culture European
Required Culture Asian
Required Culture Oceanian
Required Culture Middle Eastern

Academy of Alphabets
- 4 gold: + 5 espinage
Requires Alphabet
+ 2 Diplomatic Relation bonus to (Europe) Culture
Obsolete with Nationalism

A special academy to train interpreters to understand cuneiform and alphabets and the languages derived from it

Required Culture American
Required Culture African
Required Culture Asian
Required Culture Oceanian
Required Culture Middle Eastern

Academy of Calligraphy
- 4 gold: + 5 espinage
Requires Calligraphy
+ 2 Diplomatic Relation bonus to (Asian) Culture
+2 Diplomatic Relation bonus to (Middle Eastern) Culture
Obsolete with Nationalism

A special academy to train interpreters to understand calligraphy and languages derived from it

Required Culture American
Required Culture European
Required Culture African
Required Culture Oceanian

 

[Hydromancerx]

Required Culture Klamath
required Culture Cumash
Required Culture Apache
Required Culture Cherokee
Required Culture Cheyenne
Required Culture Comache
Required Culture Apache
Required Culture Carib
Required Culture Cherokee
Required Culture Hopi
Required Culture Navajo
Required Culture Sioux
Required Culture Tupi

I don't think you can have that many resource requirements. I am not sure the limit but i think its around 5.

In addition I would rather not have buildings replace other buildings when it comes to culture. For instance the Mayan Ball Court doesn't replace the Arena or the Netherlands Dike doesn't replace the Levy.

So yeah if I do have culture ones it will be either Native Culture or general.

 

[strategyonly]

I don't think you can have that many resource requirements. I am not sure the limit but i think its around 5.

In addition I would rather not have buildings replace other buildings when it comes to culture. For instance the Mayan Ball Court doesn't replace the Arena or the Netherlands Dike doesn't replace the Levy.

So yeah if I do have culture ones it will be either Native Culture or general.

I dont think the culture one ought to be required by any building, UNLESS it was specifically made for THAT culture. BUT if you go down that road again, you get UB's

 

[Hydromancerx]

That's why most of the old UBs got converted to general buildings. Only a few remain as culture specific ones.

 

[Azurian]

Revised..

Pictographs
+1 Culture to Tattoo Hut

Manhood Ritual
35 Production
+1 + 1 :happy +1 Espionage
+2 Happy with Tribal
+1 Experience Points to Melee
+1 Experience to Axe

Adolescents pass a right of passage to earn their manhood.

Obsolete with Military Training

Childbirth Hut
40 Production
+2 Health -2 Gold + 10% Population Increase
+2 Happy with Tribal

Midwifes assist women during pregnancy, labour and birth, and childbirth is giving in a more controlled manner

Obsolete with City Planning

Hunting Games
35 Production
+1 +1 Food + 1 :happy
+2 Happy with Tribal
+1 Experience Points to Archer
+1 Experience to Spear

A series of games to see who can bring down the biggest animal.

Obsolete with Athletics

Camouflage Ceremony
35 Production
+1 + 1 :happy + Espionage
+2 Happy with Tribal
+1 Experience to Hunter
+1 Experience to Recon

Ceremony about agility, survivng in the shadows. To move hidden among your enemies and element of surprise is taught.

Obsolete with Horse Breeding





Ideograms
+1 to Fine Clay
+1 to Seal Maker
Move Chitchin Itza here
Move Culture Olmec here



Stylish Mask Seller
Provides 1 (Masks)
+2 +1
+1% :culture with Prime Timber
+1% :culture with Jade
+1% "culture with Feathers
Obsolete by Globalization


Summer Boat Races
+1 :gold +2 :culture + 1 :happy

Water racing with boats. In African culture, boats have Ideogram Designs on the sides.

Obsolete with Navigation






Calligraphy
+ 1 with with Dyes
Move Crime (Graffiti) here

Atlas Designer
+ 1 +1 + 3 : espionage:
Obsolete with Cartography

Auction House
+15% Gold
+1 Happy with Currency
Obsolete with Bank

Ornamented Scriptures
+ 1 + 3 happy
+2 Happy With Divine Cult
Obsolete by Stained Glass

Scripted Manuscripts
+1 + 2
+2 Science with Written Education
Obsolete by Education

 

[Hydromancerx]

@MrAzure

Much better. I will try to add some when I have time. My todo list is getting longer every day.

 

[Azurian]

@MrAzure

Much better. I will try to add some when I have time. My todo list is getting longer every day.

Im starting to learn C2C balance and gameplay theory, thanks for the warm regards, yeah you have a giant list lol.

I have like 100 Tech ideas for Transhuman and Galactic Era on Excel with buildings but im waiting for multiple maps, and techs that lead to AI, and techs that require AI and branch of.

Reading futuristic sci has expanded my mind.
For example DNA Computing starts a chain of biological artisty techs like Cellular Architecture (design cells) , and Quantum Computing starts a binary subconscious chain like Exocortex Networks (brains connect to each other directly) to Binary Psychokinesis (brain-interface and cybernetics and new enegy source allows to lift stuff).

I have alot of Techs, and they are not carbon copies of each other.

 

[anunknownman]

Revised..

Pictographs
+1 Culture to Tattoo Hut

Manhood Ritual
35 Production
+1 + 1 :happy +1 Espionage
+2 Happy with Tribal
+1 Experience Points to Melee
+1 Experience to Axe

Obsolete with Military Training

Childbirth Hut
40 Production
+2 Health -2 Gold + 10% Population Increase
+2 Happy with Tribal

Obsolete with City Planning

Hunting Games
35 Production
+1 +1 Food + 1 :happy
+2 Happy with Tribal
+1 Experience Points to Archer
+1 Experience to Spear

Obsolete with Athletics

Camouflage Ceremony
35 Production
+1 + 1 :happy + Espionage
+2 Happy with Tribal
+1 Experience to Hunter
+1 Experience to Recon

Obsolete with Horse Breeding





Ideograms
+1 to Fine Clay
+1 to Seal Maker
Move Chitchin Itza here
Move Culture Olmec here



Stylish Mask Seller
Provides 1 (Masks)
+2 +1
+1% :culture with Prime Timber
+1% :culture with Jade
+1% "culture with Feathers
Obsolete by Globalization


Summer Boat Races
+1 :gold +2 :culture + 1 :happy

Obsolete with Navigation






Calligraphy
+ 1 with with Dyes
Move Crime (Graffiti) here

Atlas Designer
+ 1 +1 + 3 : espionage:
Obsolete with Cartography

Auction House
+15% Gold
+1 Happy with Currency
Obsolete with Bank

Ornamented Scriptures
+ 1 + 3 happy
+2 Happy With Divine Cult
Obsolete by Stained Glass

Scripted Manuscripts
+1 + 2
+2 Science with Written Education
Obsolete by Education

gotta say,i think your'e doing a fantastic job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just an advice though,do you think some of your buildings could add some new good(i.e Ornamented Scriptures could add a good called............ Ornamented Scriptures)

i think the potential for including new goods i HUGE considering the resource limit has benn removed no????

 

[ls612]

Im starting to learn C2C balance and gameplay theory, thanks for the warm regards, yeah you have a giant list lol.

I have like 100 Tech ideas for Transhuman and Galactic Era on Excel with buildings but im waiting for multiple maps, and techs that lead to AI, and techs that require AI and branch of.

Reading futuristic sci has expanded my mind.
For example DNA Computing starts a chain of biological artisty techs like Cellular Architecture (design cells) , and Quantum Computing starts a binary subconscious chain like Exocortex Networks (brains connect to each other directly) to Binary Psychokinesis (brain-interface and cybernetics and new enegy source allows to lift stuff).

I have alot of Techs, and they are not carbon copies of each other.

I like the future techs, but remember that we need new stuff to go with those techs, otherwise the techs aren't worth much. That stuff should also not be a carbon copy of other assets we already have, and we have a LOT of stuff. I wish you luck though.