The names of the eras give you the main topic of it, but it is by no means exclusive. Even in the Iron Age, it is perfectly possible to invent better copper / bronze technology. Sometimes, people found out that bronze can be better than iron (e.g. cannons). People didn't stop living in stone houses in the Iron Age (and aside from being extremely expensive, having an iron house would be a terrible idea).
Tech Tree Discussion
- Thread starter Vokarya
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Sir_UristmcAmon
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I know that but by the time anyone reaches the Transhuman era, i think it would make sense that the majority of the techs if not all of them, would relate to the name; it wouldn't make sense to include biotech in the cyber era, for example. Its also consistent with the names as well.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'm not against splitting up eras but be careful with this kind of thinking in particular. A major breakthrough can define an era but it should not be all that is being developed... there's a dire danger in going about it this way. The modern real world is developing all these things as quickly as it can and we cannot predict which is going to prove to make the most dramatic breakthroughs first. The transhuman tree is very good as it is now... some slight adjusting to split it into more eras is not a bad thing but the progress concepts are pretty good on a lot of levels.
pepper2000
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To build on previous comments, the present day is seeing rapid advancement in many areas, including biotechnology, robotics, materials science, energy, and information technology. Process in each area feeds off progress in the other areas, so they really can't be separated.
What we think of as Transhumanism doesn't really appear until the latter half of the Transhuman Era, so I agree that the name is a bit of a misnomer. If we do nothing else, I would rename the era to the Nanotech Era.
What we think of as Transhumanism doesn't really appear until the latter half of the Transhuman Era, so I agree that the name is a bit of a misnomer. If we do nothing else, I would rename the era to the Nanotech Era.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I've forgotten how to add screen shots here but I have a radically different tech tree covering the Nomadic/Sedentary divide.
Since it is for discussion I use eras in it to highlight which techs are Nomadic (can be learned by anyone) and which techs are Sedentary ie require you give up the Nomadic Life to be able to research. If you research Agriculture you stop being Nomadic and become Sedentary in this scheme. At the moment it ends at Iron Working which is a Nomadic tech.
This period of the tech tree basically covers the C2C tech tree from about animal domestication to iron working at the moment and does not include religion, espionage or most of the C2C concepts. It is bare bones almost, it doesn't even have elephants yet.
Nomadic does not mean aimless wandering except for new "settler style" units looking for a new place in the world. Nomadic means moving between regular locations over time. In the earliest period this is following the migration of animals of moving between places where food is plentiful at the different times of the year (we really need to need some way of getting at the shell fish and crabs on the coast earlier than we currently do.)
Since it is for discussion I use eras in it to highlight which techs are Nomadic (can be learned by anyone) and which techs are Sedentary ie require you give up the Nomadic Life to be able to research. If you research Agriculture you stop being Nomadic and become Sedentary in this scheme. At the moment it ends at Iron Working which is a Nomadic tech.
This period of the tech tree basically covers the C2C tech tree from about animal domestication to iron working at the moment and does not include religion, espionage or most of the C2C concepts. It is bare bones almost, it doesn't even have elephants yet.
Nomadic does not mean aimless wandering except for new "settler style" units looking for a new place in the world. Nomadic means moving between regular locations over time. In the earliest period this is following the migration of animals of moving between places where food is plentiful at the different times of the year (we really need to need some way of getting at the shell fish and crabs on the coast earlier than we currently do.)
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Sir_UristmcAmon
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So maybe add something like suberas? It would at lest make sense since you dont want the Transhuman eras being focused on specific area or field of technology.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well put, though I don't mind the idea that the information age would lead into the transhuman when it's not all that much of a misnomer. Transhumanism covers everything from biological engineering upgrades that affect ourselves directly to cybertechnologies, which will likely require nano-technologies as well. It is a period predicted when our technology drives our evolution rather than being at the whim of natural selection. We are really there already but you might be referring to the concept of singularity, even though that is more of an aspect of the discussions regarding AI and technological knowledge expansion where we are discovering at a rate faster than we can possibly learn and really only AI can keep up, but we may be able to if we can figure out how to download that information directly and bypass the ACT of learning entirely.
We're going to have to make this a selection as to when to finally settle...
Yeah, that's something I've considered as well. And many cultures were seafaring long before they settled down permanently.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I got the images up for my tech tree the main thing about them are what can be researched without needing to have settled cities.
Noriad2
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I think that the easiest way to slowly introduce Nomadic start, without breaking saves, would be the ability to disband your initial city and get back a Band of Homo Sapiens in exchange. Currently you choose your city site "blind" i.e. you don't know what resources are available until you tech up. As you research resource techs, and explore your surroundings, many times there will be "aww I wish I settled my initial city 4 spots to the south. That is a much better spot!". Of course solutions must be found for what to do with your palace (you probably get a new one if you haven't conquered another city yet) and the initial Tribal Guardian.
Noriad2
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Another issue: If there is a plce for another science related technology in the Ancient age, perhaps it could be "symbols" as a kind of proto-writing. There is a discussion going on regarding findings of sets of symbols on objects made by the Danube (Vinca) civilization in South Eastern Europe. These symbols are significantly older than the writings of Mesopotamia, and some claim that that is evidence that the Cradle of Civilization was not located in the Middle East but in South Eastern Europe. However other archaeologists claim that the Vinca symbols are just symbols and do not constitute an alphabet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_symbols
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_symbols
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Isn't this Ideagrams?
Noriad2
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Hmm I think you are right. Nevermind.
pepper2000
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Some people who talk about Transhumanism point out that the transformation of the human species really goes all the way back to the first tools. There isn't some clear point in time where we can say it starts. For the Space Colonization modmod, I started the line of Human Mods at Online Community, where the cultural changes lay the groundwork for further changes to come. But as a starting point for transhumanism, that's pretty arbitrary. The term transhumanism goes back to the 1950s, and the movement inherited some concepts (and advocates) from the eugenics movement.
For the future eras, one can also think in terms of the Kardeshev scale. My modified take on the Kardeshev scale is as follows.
Kardeshev Type 1 (K1): Development of the Earth-Moon system and cislunar space. Achieved around Lunar Trade.
K2: Development of the full Solar System. Achieved around Solar Ordnance.
K3: Development of the full Milky Way (or at least the technological know-how to do so, since it takes a very long time). Achieved around Folding Space.
K4: Development of the observable universe. Achieved around (?).
K5: Development of the multiverse. Achieved around Reality Reprogramming.
The Kardeshev scale naturally indicates that there should be five future eras, though there isn't enough content to distinguish between the last two. I would call them the Nanotech, Transhuman, Galactic, and Cosmic Eras (and maybe a final Transcendent Era).
I don't think I can add new eras via a modmod, and after some discussion a while ago I don't want to attempt to do it in the SVN due to lack of consensus on the topic. But Hydro, if you or someone else goes ahead with a split, I would be happy to experiment with setting boundaries for the future. Is there any reason we can't add a bunch of eras but not assign any techs to them? That way, they'd be there for modmodders to play with but not foul up the existing structure.
All this said, I would again argue against any major restructuring of the Transhuman Era tech tree, aside from changing era boundaries and names. I've added a bunch of future content and found that it all fits very nicely. The tree is extremely well structured, and it keeps a great conceptual variety of techs as the game proceeds. I've only added two techs--Megacities and Nano-Architecture--because there was too much content to stuff into the existing techs.
For the future eras, one can also think in terms of the Kardeshev scale. My modified take on the Kardeshev scale is as follows.
Kardeshev Type 1 (K1): Development of the Earth-Moon system and cislunar space. Achieved around Lunar Trade.
K2: Development of the full Solar System. Achieved around Solar Ordnance.
K3: Development of the full Milky Way (or at least the technological know-how to do so, since it takes a very long time). Achieved around Folding Space.
K4: Development of the observable universe. Achieved around (?).
K5: Development of the multiverse. Achieved around Reality Reprogramming.
The Kardeshev scale naturally indicates that there should be five future eras, though there isn't enough content to distinguish between the last two. I would call them the Nanotech, Transhuman, Galactic, and Cosmic Eras (and maybe a final Transcendent Era).
I don't think I can add new eras via a modmod, and after some discussion a while ago I don't want to attempt to do it in the SVN due to lack of consensus on the topic. But Hydro, if you or someone else goes ahead with a split, I would be happy to experiment with setting boundaries for the future. Is there any reason we can't add a bunch of eras but not assign any techs to them? That way, they'd be there for modmodders to play with but not foul up the existing structure.
All this said, I would again argue against any major restructuring of the Transhuman Era tech tree, aside from changing era boundaries and names. I've added a bunch of future content and found that it all fits very nicely. The tree is extremely well structured, and it keeps a great conceptual variety of techs as the game proceeds. I've only added two techs--Megacities and Nano-Architecture--because there was too much content to stuff into the existing techs.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
When I was taking a deep look at the tech tree for the naval chains, I made a few small adjustments but was largely deeply impressed. I feel there are a few more techs coming, particularly on the farthest ends of the tree, and we haven't fleshed out a lot of the more civil tech improvements too much yet. But seriously, the basic bones of the structure is really a great rational starting point for us imo. So I definitely agree. And I figure we should get your stuff in as much as possible, whatever doesn't require multiple maps, asap.
The thing about calling an era the nanotech era... nano is planned to continue advancing throughout the whole future chain. It starts simple at first but ends up being the fabric of the AI creatures that operate as hiveminds of nano-botics that can form themselves pretty much to be whatever form they wish and are as nearly impossible to destroy as an entire species of a disease bacteria as they can dramatically scatter over a massive span of space while maintaining a singular identity, and if even one or two nanobots survive, the whole survives and can recover.
Such a vision doesn't work well with an age being dubbed that yet the advancement and progression continues well and past that age.
That said, the Kardashev scale does seem an interesting way to measure out the tree for eras...
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pepper2000
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That's a good point. The nanotech material extends as late as Attometer Nanomorphism.
As far as getting my material into the main mod, I'm sorry that I've been slow on that. I still have some cleanup to do and will not make the deadline for the V37 release, so I plan to wait until after V37 and try to do it then. In the meantime, I might even prepare V8 of the modmod.
As far as getting my material into the main mod, I'm sorry that I've been slow on that. I still have some cleanup to do and will not make the deadline for the V37 release, so I plan to wait until after V37 and try to do it then. In the meantime, I might even prepare V8 of the modmod.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Saw your note on that earlier. I totally understand. The worst thing we can do is rush anything that won't get the opportunity to get well tested.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
yeah MrAzure did an excellent job in the Transhuman tech tree. It really opened my eyes that technology from different disciplines could co-evolve at the same time. So names like Biotech or Cyber might not be the best as separate eras. Which was oen reason the name "Transhuman" was the best catch all term for all the types of future tech.
And nothing were ever modern before the modern age. ^^
Just saying, if Digital- Genetic- Cyber and Nano- tech emerge close together, we must look for more abstract/indirect names; unless it's obvious that one kind of tech dominates civilizations society during a part of the tech tree.
I wouldn't really know as I've not really studied the transhuman tech tree.
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