Tech Tree Discussion

[Thunderbrd]

Also remember to check any units that are Caravel-Equivalent cultural units. If the caravel moves then they should too.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Also remember to check any units that are Caravel-Equivalent cultural units. If the caravel moves then they should too.

I can move them, waiting for @JosEPh_II reply first.

 

[Yudishtira]

You also get oceangoing Carrack Merchants. (Frankly they're better for exploring than the caravels, way weaker but they seem much faster). So I guess you'll want to move them too.

Seeing as the tech represents some theory work that was not applied in any way, perhaps you might as well move everything out of it:

The Sloop and Brigantine are there, but that's misleading as they also require Metallurgy, from an era later.

Heroes Zheng He and Henry the Navigator are there, but they are 14th century characters.

Marco Polo's Wonder is there, maybe there was nowhere else to put it. What about the Optometrist?

There's a few other things, but

 

[Thunderbrd]

Optometrist should stay. Isn't there also some effect about ships seeing farther that gets earned there or am I thinking Vanilla?

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Optometrist should stay. Isn't there also some effect about ships seeing farther that gets earned there or am I thinking Vanilla?

It does.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It does.

Well that's enough of a bonus to justify the tech, plus the Optometrist. That's what I wanted to at least ensure, that we were leaving enough there that we weren't stripping the value of the tech to bits.

 

[tmv]

I thought that this tech represents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_stone or perhaps early glasses.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I thought that this tech represents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_stone or perhaps early glasses.

Concave/convex glass lenses basically.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I can move them, waiting for @JosEPh_II reply first.

If the consensus is move it then okay with me.

 

[raxo2222]

@Thunderbrd Industrial era is easiest era to beeline trough.

This means problems in later game for AIs as they are missing few important techs for too long.
It should be one of hardest eras to beeline trough.

Women's Suffrage (Needs Emancipation - unlocks Emancipation Proclamation NW, that blocks Slavery/Cannibalism/Human Sacrifice worldviews.) is a must for Modern Lifestyle - Emancipation needed by it unlocks slavery killer.
Now Modern Lifestyle requires Mass Transit, Radio and Compulsory Education.

And yes they build tanks and airplanes when they finally disable slavery somewhere in Modern or Information era.

So I could add Women's Suffrage to modern lifestyle.

Spoiler :

Adding Women's Suffrage will mean three other techs will be researched before Modern era:
Marxism, Labor Union and Emancipation.

I guess Norway way is best way to get tanks and planes since things were made like this .

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you put the National Wonder at Modern Lifestyle, you're really throwing it off on the age and feel. I would advise to take a page out of DH's playbook on the Factory issue and say that even the idea of Factories isn't really possible without people at least considering the concept of Emancipation and make the Assembly Line tech get an AND prereq of Emancipation. That should help to make the era a little less beelineable without killing the potential to and correct the path to the next era so that it must lead through Emancipation and thus the Proclamation NW.

 

[raxo2222]

If you put the National Wonder at Modern Lifestyle, you're really throwing it off on the age and feel. I would advise to take a page out of DH's playbook on the Factory issue and say that even the idea of Factories isn't really possible without people at least considering the concept of Emancipation and make the Assembly Line tech get an AND prereq of Emancipation. That should help to make the era a little less beelineable without killing the potential to and correct the path to the next era so that it must lead through Emancipation and thus the Proclamation NW.

I see you misread something on beginning and suggested something like what I already did.

That is this National Wonder still requires Emancipation and Emancipation is required by Women's Suffrage.
What I did was adding Women's Suffrage as prereq for Modern Lifestyle.
This way three other techs are always researched too when going to Modern Lifestyle.

Spoiler :

I can add Emancipation to assembly line - that should help AI even more, as it will always get tool to remove slavery before factories and power plants.
Woman's Suffrage then won't require Emancipation, as its prereqs already require it.
Similarly Labor Union won't require Deputization anymore, as its already required by Laor Unions prereqs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What I did was adding Women's Suffrage as prereq for Modern Lifestyle.
This way three other techs are always researched too when going to Modern Lifestyle.

Yes but only required then RIGHT before getting Modern Lifestyle, whereas if you were to make Emancipation a requirement for Assembly Line then it's not only logical but it forces the availability to come up sooner. You have already considered doing both and I'm fine with that approach overall too.

I can add Emancipation to assembly line - that should help AI even more, as it will always get tool to remove slavery before factories and power plants.
Woman's Suffrage then won't require Emancipation, as its prereqs already require it.
Similarly Labor Union won't require Deputization anymore, as its already required by Laor Unions prereqs.

Yeah, I'd do all that.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

10327- Moved Caravel from Optics to Compass as ocean crossing wasn't something that was possible during the High Middle Ages.

There's a Certain Viking that would disagree with that statement. but it's indeed a good move, Seeing Columbus was part of the Renaissance Period, and he did use said Caravels which are also from said period,

 

[KaTiON_PT]

There's a Certain Viking that would disagree with that statement. but it's indeed a good move, Seeing Columbus was part of the Renaissance Period, and he did use said Caravels which are also from said period,

The breakthrough the Caravel brought was the ability to finally traverse open oceans. The Viking's stayed close to the coast during their expeditions to North America.

Compared to Columbus journey:

 

[Raven Destroyer]

Still, it counts, also there's the Polynesians that done it before even the Romans existed, also the Vikings did need to cross open ocean at points, though yes the Caravel was way way better at the whole staying afloat in conditions most common while in Open Ocean, not to mention the range advantage those ships inherently have over Canoe's and Viking Longboats

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Untangling the Modern Era with advise from @raxo2222, all that's left is re-costing buildings and units.

 

[raxo2222]

Untangling the Modern Era with advise from @raxo2222, all that's left is re-costing buildings and units.

Robotics should be AND prereq for Information Lifestyle - too many IT techs seems to be left out and can be skipped until you are somewhere in Information era.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Still, it counts, also there's the Polynesians that done it before even the Romans existed, also the Vikings did need to cross open ocean at points, though yes the Caravel was way way better at the whole staying afloat in conditions most common while in Open Ocean, not to mention the range advantage those ships inherently have over Canoe's and Viking Longboats

A seaworthiness mod for ships that allows them to try to cross ocean and sea early at (variable) danger to themselves is a project nearing on the horizon. It's also been shown that the Chinese likely set ships to the western shores of South America much earlier than Columbus as well.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

Also that, didn't mention the Chinese because the Polynesians where earlier than Columbus, but yeah they also beat them to it, although Columbus was the sole one that managed to spur the forming of Colonies that lasted