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Tech Tree Revisions

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by Vokarya, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    Actually, I don't think Meditation needs a tweak. I saw the same civilization with Judaism and Buddhism only 5 times in 20 autoplays. I think with Monotheism moved backwards, it's easier for an AI to go off track just to grab Monotheism, found Judaism, and then return to other research.

    The most common pairing I saw was Christianity-Islam (10 times, 1 by conquest). This usually happens to the #1 civ on the scoreboard. The second-most common pairings, at 9 times each, were Buddhism-Taoism and Taoism-Islam. I think the Islam pairings are simply because whichever civilization is out front by the late Classical (pick up Taoism) or early Medieval (Christianity) stays in the lead long enough to get Islam. I would like to do something to Philosophy, but the problem is that Philosophy is Meditation's only exit point, and I can't see a way of either breaking that link or making Philosophy harder to reach.
     
  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Did you notice any Hindu-Buddhism pairings after the Mono tweak?

    JosEPh
     
  3. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    Twice in 20 games (and Hinduism-Judaism never happened). Hinduism actually stood alone 11 times out of the 20.
     
  4. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    Okay, one more thing. I think Writing is horribly over-weighted at the moment. Do you think we could move tech trading back to Alphabet? Tech trading feels cheapened when it's practically right out of the gate -- AI's all seem to be beelining it.
     
  5. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Well, it seems a bit late to me but maybe because I'm used to Writing at the moment. If you feel it's right, let's try it.
     
  6. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    I'm ready to release a new version with everything I've posted lately. Why don't we try it for the next beta test and see if it has any effect?
     
  7. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Ok, but then I'll just add a couple of updates myself. Later today I'll add blockade fix and signs on personalized maps.
     
  8. Rezca

    Rezca The Greatest Jaggi

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    Will user-placed signs work even with the Personalized Map option disabled?
     
  9. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    I think that "Monotheism" could be renamed for example to "Doctrines".
    It's just too strange for me to research a tech called monotheism with a state religion that is totally politeist.
     
  10. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Actually at the moment they don't work even with Personalized Map option enabled. :( I don't know why, but I'm not able to place a sign and I'm not sure how it happened because I haven't changed anything in that part of the code. Can you confirm that in some revision you were able to place signs by yourself?

    Edit: By the way I've tried in C2C too and signs placement don't work there either.
     
  11. Rezca

    Rezca The Greatest Jaggi

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    I haven't checked yet with 670, but I do remember placing signs in the old 1.75 and them sticking.

    I was playing on a Fractal map and started on a small jungle island with the Portuguese, and razed the barbarian Zapotec on the southwestern side, and placed a sign saying "Ruins of Zapotec" since the city I wanted to found was right next to it. I remember in some revisions after 1.75 I'd place signs on all of the Ancient Temples I'd find, and they'd stick...

    I'm not sure when I first noticed the signs disappearing upon saving/autosaving :confused:
     
  12. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    I've made a quick test. It never worked starting from AND 1.76; it worked in AND 1.75C; I'll try to see what changed back then.

    Edit: no, it doesn't work in 1.75C either. :(

    Edit2: hell, it doesn't work in ROM 1.74H either. :(
     
  13. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    Here's a couple of thoughts I had on some Ancient Era tweaking, with the intent of slowing down the Ancient Era just a bit. I don't think either of these is absolutely necessary, but I would like to know if you think they would have an impact.

    Slow Settlers
    This is a two-part change. First, move The Wheel to require Stone Tools. I think some level of toolmaking would be required to build wheels (we would have to tweak all the civilizations that start with The Wheel). Secondly, make Settler units require Pottery tech to build (this was done in the World of Legends mod). The idea is that you have to have a supply of stored food before you can send out another band of settlers. This would force everyone to go down the Stone Tools - The Wheel - Pottery route before expanding beyond 1 city, and I know the AI seems to love beelining Writing via Priesthood, so maybe this would force a little more diversity in early tech decisions. Generally, I wait until my first city is around size 4 before I build Settlers, but I'm curious to know how other people play.

    Sacrifice Prerequisites
    When I was revising the Tech Tree, I cut Sacrifice back to only require Mysticism. I thought about adding another prerequisite, and that would be an OR requirement of either Animal Husbandry or Slavery. For those of you not familiar with the history of RAND or have read the XML, Sacrifice was originally called Blood Cult, then changed to Sacrifice Cult, and then I cut it down to just Sacrifice. My only qualm is that this particular set of requirements might be a little too gruesome, but it seems most sacrifice rites involve something large and bloody, so it might be more accurate, and we do already have the Aztec Sacrificial Altar as well. This would push Monotheism back just a little, by requiring one more tech before hitting it (you could go Ritualism - Slavery - Sacrifice - Monotheism).

    Let me know what you think of these.
     
  14. Rezca

    Rezca The Greatest Jaggi

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    I approve of the Settler requiring Pottery :)

    I usually wait until size 3 / 4 / 5 or until I've gotten a bit of defense and buildings up before starting to move out, unless there's a resource nearby I really want to secure asap, in which I might send a settler out sooner.
     
  15. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    I typically build a few millitary units untill I get to city size 2 or 3, then a worker, then few more millitary units, then a settler. After that, I pretty much crank out settlers as fast as my economy would allow. I'm not sure how I feel about pushing settlers back to Pottery, but it would greatly change my play style.
     
  16. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    While I'm ok with Sacrifice and Wheel, I have some doubts about slow settlers. I like the idea of Pottery requirements very much BUT it could slow down AI too much. I guess the only way is to try it but I'd like to try it before we release this change via SVN. I typically build my second and third settler while my city is still at size 2-3, so very early. And slowing down city building also means slowing down research in ancient era, hence I'd like to test how the game develops for balancing reason. If everything works without great impact on AI development and research times, I'm more than positive for this change. :)
     
  17. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    ...and Wood-working could speed it up. :)

    I like the idea. But what about goody-hut settlers?


    There were drink and incense offerings too, and Cain offered vegetables in the book od Genesis.
    So I thing that anithing that providing the above would make it researchable.
     
  18. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    We can wait on trying it - it was something that I remembered from WoL and I would like to see the Ancient Era slowed down a little.
     
  19. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    We can do that with OR prereqs.

    I don't know. Can you get goody Scouts without Hunting? If you can, then Settlers shouldn't be a problem.

    Only problem with that is that I want the new prerequisite to be fairly close to where Sacrifice currently is on the tree, or else it's not a very significant prerequisite. From a theme point, small sacrifices are not the point of this tech; it's regular sacrifices of large animals and/or humans that result in it becoming significant enough to become a tech.
     
  20. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    Good :)

    I know I can get them that way. The question was: Do you want it to work that way?

    EDIT: Afterall it isn't unreasonable that way. Maybe you don't have pottery yet but the tribe giving you the free settler does. So I think it is okay that way.
     

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