Tech Tree

[Sengir]

The first techs of an age should require the applicable age (at least I thought so). I know it's not in my schema, but I was a bit lazy

Decisions (well, at least my opinions):
Remove 'The White Council', it should be a wonder/project not a tech.
Signal Fires <> Strategic Communications: I like Strategic Communications better as I've outlined elsewhere.
Alphabet and related techs: this is T_F's pet peeve, so let him decide


Do you want me to whip up another image xmen? I will at least wait with it until we have a decision about Alphabet.


Also if someone has another tech-suggestion: now would be a really good time to mention it

 

[xmen510]

If you want to go ahead with an image of what we have, then that is great. I would suggest waiting until we get a final decision regarding the Alphabet dilema first however (less work for you then).

I will update the Tech tree with the Removal of The White Council and renaming of Signal fires to Strategic Communications immediately after I post this.

As I mentioned before. The only things that really concern me is what abilities civs will start with:

such as the ability to create roads, etc., since that is not on the list. Also remember that we can always up date the Tech Tree with further releases down the road.

 

[xmen510]

History now stands as Thus:

Spoiler :

AGE OF THE STARS:

Fishing:
- Requries: AGE OF THE STARS
Sailing:
- Requires: Fishing
Farming:
- Requires: AGE OF THE STARS
Hunting:
- Requires: AGE OF THE STARS
Domestication:
- Requires:: Farming or Hunting
Woodworking:
- Requires: AGE OF THE STARS
Stoneworking:
- Requires: Woodworking
Mining:
- Requires: Woodworking
Fortification:
- Requires: Domestication or Stoneworking & Woodworking
Writing:
- Requires: Stoneworking
Copperworking:
- Requires: Mining
Jewlery:
- Requires: Copperworking &/or Writing
Bronzeworking:
- Requires: Copperworking

FIRST AGE OF THE SUN:
- Requires: AGE OF THE STARS, Sailing, Domestication, Fortification, Stoneworking, Writing, Jewelry & Bronzeworking

Horseback Riding:
- Requries: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN & Domestication
Trade:
- Requires: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN, Sailing, Writing &/or Farming or Horseback Riding
Stirrup:
- Requires: Horseback Riding
Archery:
- Requires: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN & Fortification
Masonry:
- Requires: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN & Fortification or Stoneworking
Tradition Keeping:
- Requries: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN & Writing
Shipbuilding:
- Requires: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN, Woodworking, Sailing &/or Trade
Diplomacy:
- Requires: The Court
Mounted Combat:
- Requires: Stirrup
Bowyers:
- Requires: Archery
Construction:
- Requires: Masonry
Monarchy:
- Requires: Tradition Keeping
Poetry:
- Requires: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN, Tradition Keeping &/or Jewelry
Smithing:
- Requires: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN & Bronzeworking
Ironworking:
- Requries: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN & Bronzeworking
The Court:
- Requires: Masonry &/or Monarchy
Healing:
- Requires: Monarchy
Music:
- Requires: Tradition Keeping &/or Poetry
Armor:
- Requires: Smithing
Steel Weaponry:
- Requries: Smithing &/or Ironworking

SECOND AGE OF THE SUN:
- Requires: FIRST AGE OF THE SUN, Shipbuilding, Diplomacy, The Court, Music, Healing, Armor & Steel Weaponry

Navigation:
- Requires: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN & Shipguilding
Treaties:
- Requries: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN & Diplomacy
Naval Warfare:
- Requries: Navigation
Commerce:
- Requires: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN, Navigation & Diplomacy or Treaties
Cavalry Tactics:
- Requires: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN & Professional Armies
Sharpshooting:
- Requires: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN & Bowyers
Heraldry:
- Requries: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN, The Court, Healing &/or Music
Trade Posts:
- Requires: Commerce
Chivalry:
- Requries: Cavalry Tactics & The Court
Marksmanship:
- Requires: Sharpshooting
Engineering:
- Requries: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN & Construction
Literature:
- Requires: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN & Poetry
Professional Armies:
- Requires: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN, The Court, Heraldry & Armor or Steel Weapons
Mithril Working:
- Requries: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN, Iron Working & Smithing
Outposts:
- Requries: Naval Warfare &/or Trade Posts
Fortress Building:
- Requries: Engineering
History:
- Requires: Literature &/or Heraldry
Seige Warfare:
- Requires: Construction & Professional Armies
Infantry Tactics:
- Requires: Professional Armies
Council Of Wises:
- Requries: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN & Literacy

THIRD AGE OF THE SUN:
- Requires: SECOND AGE OF THE SUN, Naval Warfare, Outposts, Council Of Wises, Fortress Building, History & Professional Armies

Naval Tactics:
- Requries: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN, Strategy & Naval Warfare
Great Trade Routes:
- Requries: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN & Outposts or Trade Posts
Ballistics:
- Requires: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN, Seige Warfare & Marksmanship or Fortress Building
Strategy:
- Requires: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN & Professional Armies
Advanced Weaponry:
- Requires: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN & Mithril Working or Infantry Tactics
Machines:
- Requries: Specialized Smithing & Great Trade Routes
Mastery Of Mounted Warfare:
- Requires: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN, Heraldry, Chivalry & Military Training
Vassalage:
- Requires: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN & Fortress Building or Strategy
Stewardship:
- Requires: Vassalage & History or Monarchy
Alliances:
- Requires: Vassalage
Military Training:
- Requires: Vassalage &/or Composed Armies
Composed Armies:
- Requires: Strategy &/or Advanced Weaponry
Weapon Mastery:
- Requires: Heraldry, Military Training & Advanced Weaponry
Strategic Communication:
- Requries: Alliances
Total War:
- Requires: Alliances & Military Training or Weapon Mastery

FOURTH AGE OF THE SUN:
- Requires: THIRD AGE OF THE SUN, Machines, Strategic Communication & Total War

Specialized Smithing:
- Requires: FOURTH AGE OF THE SUN & Weapon Mastery
The Peace:
- Requires: FOURTH AGE OF THE SUN & Total War
Age Of Men:
- Requries: Machines & Specialized Smithing

 

[T_F]

I don't think I disagree on anything in the list (except the alphabet thing), though an image would help me make sure ^_^

About the whole alphabet thing, in linguist-speak both Tengwar and Sarati are abjads, i.e. systems with full letters for consonants and symbols that go next to or above or below the letters to indicate vowels. (They're like Arabic, except Arabic generally leaves the vowels out.) Alphabets are technically systems with vowel and consonant symbols that don't have any fundamental difference.

I'd prefer it to be called Writing, for that reason and because having a specific tech Alphabet as an improvement to just Writing is kind of Western-centric. Most non-alphabets work perfectly fine for whatever language they're used with - Arabic works fine for Arabic, the Chinese character system actually slightly improves its intelligibility (though by a tiny amount), and the kana for Japanese work perfectly. That's always annoyed me about Civ4. [/rant]

 

[Sengir]

^^ didn't know that. Explained that way, writing does make more sense as name. What do you think about Runes? Should that be put in as a seperate tech or should Writing be meant for all forms of writing?

 

[Berenthor]

I like the tree as it stands now.

 

[xmen510]

As do I. Unless you want to put in a specific Tech for each races differnent version of writing and communication then I don't think it needs to be tweaked too much.

3 Ideas:

- Let the list stand as is.

- Add Writing for after Alphabet.

- Replace Alphabet and have Writing right from the start.

 

[Sengir]

I think T_F is the most qualified to decide this and I will follow his lead in this.

 

[Elda King]

I'm not against the "Age Techs". But I'd make specific techs for each "race". For example, humans should get good ones, but elves only regular ones.

About the elven units, in the start we could not have different graphic sets for each unit, so we were going to have different units for all civs. The elven units were allways more powerful, but they were also very expensive - so you'd have few, but they would be powerful yet. When we started to use generic units with different graphics, my best idea was to use promos and civics: for example, each race has a unique promo that makes it's units unique, and humans get civics that later on give them faster unit building (and the unit costs increase drastically). The age techs could help with it...

 

[T_F]

I think we should have Writing instead of Alphabet, and continue it into the various writing-related techs. Writing I think covers both Runes and Tengwar.

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about, Elda King. So you have the sort of Race promotion on generic units that mess with its stats? Wouldn't it be easier to just have a bunch of UUs than to try to get a promotion that changes enough? Plus UUs let you have better names for units available.

 

[Elda King]

Having one UU for every unit is not the ideal, but it's weird having some elves that aren't... well, elven. All elves should be different from their human counterparts. Also, you could have better names for some units if they were UUs, but not all - you'd end up with Elven Spearmen and such.

 

[xmen510]

Post #63 is now updated with newest changes.

* newest changes = Replaced Alphabet with Writing throughout the Tech Tree.

 

[Sengir]

I will try to get the new image out sometime tomorrow.

I'm not sure about specific techs for specific races, as it can also be solved by the same techs providing different benefits for different races.

 

[xmen510]

The first techs of an age should require the applicable age (at least I thought so). I know it's not in my schema, but I was a bit lazy

Fixed! (I think I got what you meant. I may have misinterpreted though).

 

[T_F]

I'm not sure about specific techs for specific races, as it can also be solved by the same techs providing different benefits for different races.

That seems like it would work fine. Maybe one or two alignment-specific techs would be good though.

 

[xmen510]

The different techs could be an interesting idea. Sengir also has a good point however.

 

[Sengir]

Fixed! (I think I got what you meant. I may have misinterpreted though).

It's not completely what I meant, but I'll put a picture up sometime soon (it being clearer then a thousand words, especially words of mine)

 

[xmen510]

I thought you might mean somethung else. Darn it. Befor making anymore tweaks to my list, I'll wait and see what your image looks like.

 

[Sengir]

Ok, here's another one:

Spoiler :

I changed The Runes to writing, dropped The White Council, changed Signal Fires to Strategic Communications, added Age-tech requirement for the first techs of each age (civs cannot proceed researching for techs for the next age if they haven't got the required age-tech, this was probably allready known by all (I think) but it needs to be spelled out in the techtree to avoid mistakes.)


Also, I haven't changed the requirements for the age-techs to my suggested minimalist approach for two reasons: We haven't discussed it quite yet, and I'm not certain of it myself. One part of me wants to leave as much freedom as possible, the other part says that a lot of things are really essential to have before advancing to the next age.

 

[xmen510]

Great list. More work for me . I'll have to make the moddifications to my Text list this afternoon however as I have to leave now.

Thanks Sengir.