Tell me about Proto Indo Europeans

[Dida]

Who are these people? When and where did they live? what are their impacts? What is their relationship to the Aryan race?

 

[Narz]

Technically there is no Aryan race.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Who are these people? When and where did they live? what are their impacts? What is their relationship to the Aryan race?

Did you say that with a Seinfeld accent?

Aryan

Aryan (âr′ ēən), [Sanskrit,=noble], term formerly used to designate the Indo-European race or language family or its Indo-Iranian subgroup. Originally a group of nomadic tribes, the Aryans were part of a great migratory movement that spread in successive waves from S Russia and Turkistan during the 2d millennium B.C. Throughout Mesopotamia and Asia Minor, literate urban centers fell to their warrior bands. Archaeological evidence corroborates the text of the Veda by placing the invasion of India by the Aryans at c.1500 B.C. They colonized the Punjab region of NW India and absorbed much of the indigenous culture. The resulting Indo-Aryan period saw the flourishing of a pastoral-agricultural economy that utilized bronze objects and horse-drawn chariots. Before the discovery of the Indus valley sites in the 1920s, Hindu culture had been attributed solely to the Aryan invaders. The idealization of conquest pictured in the Vedic hymns was incorporated into Nazi racist literature, in which German descent was supposedly traced back to Aryan forebears.

http://www.reference.com/browse/columbia/Aryan

 

[Dida]

Who were the people they conquered? How can premitive people be able to conquer such large area from India to Europe? (Were the natives stupid or weak?) How come they seem to conquered everyone except the Chinese?

 

[Rhymes]

Who were the people they conquered? How can premitive people be able to conquer such large area from India to Europe? (Were the natives stupid or weak?) How come they seem to conquered everyone except the Chinese?

Because they didn't actually conquer them the standard way. Its not like they fought their way to take controle of the world.

The natives were abosrbed because they were outnumbered.... This was a slow process that took several hundread years. It was succesfull because for most of it it was a slow and steady pacific conquest.

 

[Bill3000]

There is no genetic basis for race, although you could say something like an IE supra-ethnicity on the basis of language evolution.

The natives were abosrbed because they were outnumbered.... This was a slow process that took several hundread years. It was succesfull because for most of it it was a slow and steady pacific conquest.

It's not even a matter of being outnumbered - it's a matter of the natives exchanging languages and eventually taking the languages. The "conquest" here was a lingustic conquest, not a physical conquest.

Take life today. There are thousnads of langauges and dialects today that are dangerously close to being extinct. Does this mean that those people are being conquered? No. It just means that those languages are being put out of use in favor of more mainstream languages, like English.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Their language is fairly frightening.

Check out the Wiki article if you haven't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

 

[Bill3000]

Well, what do you expect when you take an ancestral combination of the majority of languages in Europe and the Indo-Iranian region?

 

[Riesstiu IV]

I can’t tell you much about Proto Indo Europeans but I can tell you a little bit Indie Emo-peans.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Here is a little more detail on the early migrations into Europe. All the data is from:
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html

10,000 to 45,000 years ago Cromagnon peoples moved into southern France and displaced the Neanderthals about 30,000 years ago. The Basque language may be a remnant of cromagnon speech. M343 haplogroup R1B is the y chromosome marker for this group.

20,000 years ago a pre farming group migrated into western Europe. Their mitrochondial marker is labeled HV. Half of all Europeans are members of the H hapolgroup which is common to N. Africa, N. India and central Asia as well. No dating has yet been affixed to the migration of this group.

20,000 years ago a group migrated into SE Europe that may be the ancestoral heritage of the celtic tradition. They are known by their Y chromosome marker M170

10,000 to 15,000 years ago an early agricultural group moved into southern Europe from the ME (places like Jericho). They are a Y chomosomne group with an M172 marker.

 

[Odin2006]

The proto-Indo-Europeans were a semi-nomadic steppe people who lived in SE Russia, north of the Caucasus Mts. and in between the Black and Caspian seas. most historians associate them with the Kurgan culture, which was located in the same area around 4000 BCE. Starting at that time they started to spead westward into Europe and south-eastward into India, most likely replacing the old ruling classes with a warrior aristocracy. Eventually the old customs fused with the customs and religions of the invaders (the Graeco-Roman pantheon was a good example, a mix of matriarchal eath goddesses and patriarchal sky gods). It was not a rapid invasion, it took over 2000 years for speakers of Indo-European languages to reach Spain and Britain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

<H3>Timeline

• 4500–4000: Early PIE. Sredny Stog, Dnieper-Donets and Samara cultures, domestication of the horse (Wave 1).
• 4000–3500: The Yamna culture, the prototypical kurgan builders, emerges in the steppe, and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus. Indo-Hittite models postulate the separation of Proto-Anatolian before this time.
• 3500–3000: Middle PIE. The Yamna culture is at its peak, representing the classical reconstructed Proto-Indo-European society, with stone idols, early two-wheeled proto-chariots, predominantly practicing animal husbandry, but also with permanent settlements and hillforts, subsisting on agriculture and fishing, along rivers. Contact of the Yamna culture with late Neolithic Europe cultures results in the "kurganized" Globular Amphora Baden cultures (Wave 2). The Maykop culture shows the earliest evidence of the beginning Bronze Age, and Bronze weapons and artefacts are introduced to Yamna territory. Probable early Satemization.
• 3000–2500: Late PIE. The Yamna culture extends over the entire Pontic steppe (Wave 3). The Corded Ware culture extends from the Rhine to the Volga, corresponding to the latest phase of Indo-European unity, the vast "kurganized" area disintegrating into various independent languages and cultures, still in loose contact enabling the spread of technology and early loans between the groups, except for the Anatolian and Tocharian branches, which are already isolated from these processes. The Centum-Satem break is probably complete, but the phonetic trends of Satemization remain active.
• 2500–2000: The breakup into the proto-languages of the attested dialects is complete. Proto-Greek is spoken in the Balkans, Proto-Indo-Iranian north of the Caspian in the emerging Andronovo culture. The Bronze Age reaches Central Europe with the Beaker culture, likely composed of various Centum dialects. The Tarim mummies possibly correspond to proto-Tocharians.
• 2000–1500: The chariot is invented, leading to the split and rapid spread of Iranian and Indo-Aryan from the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex over much of Central Asia, Northern India, Iran and Eastern Anatolia. Proto-Anatolian is split into Hittite and Luwian. The pre-Proto-Celtic Unetice culture has an active metal industry (Nebra skydisk).
• 1500–1000: The Nordic Bronze Age develops pre-Proto-Germanic, and the (pre)-Proto-Celtic Urnfield and Hallstatt cultures emerge in Central Europe, introducing the Iron Age. Migration of the Proto-Italians into the Italian peninsula (Bagnolo stele). Redaction of the Rigveda and rise of the Vedic civilization in the Punjab. The Mycenaean civilization gives way to the Greek Dark Ages.
• 1000 BC–500 BC: The Celtic languages spread over Central and Western Europe. Proto Germanic. Homer and the beginning of Classical Antiquity. The Vedic Civilization gives way to the Mahajanapadas. Zoroaster composes the Gathas, rise of the Achaemenid Empire, replacing the Elamites and Babylonia. Armenians succeed the Urartu culture. Separation of Proto-Italic into Osco-Umbrian and Latin-Faliscan. Genesis of the Greek and Old Italic alphabets. A variety of Paleo-Balkan languages are spoken in Southern Europe. The Anatolian languages are extinct.

http://hen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis</H3>

 

[aneeshm]

Technically there is no Aryan race.

There is one school of linguistics which believes that , as all other proto-Indo-European languages are simpler than Sanskrit , it is Sanskrit which was the mother tongue , and that India was the original home of the Aryans , from which they spread outwards . Another thing to back up this theory is the fact that there has been no genetic difference found between the so-called pre-Aryan people of the Indus valley , and modern-day Indian man . That is why I consider Indians to be the original "Aryan" race .

You will notice that the Aryan influence grows dimmer as one moves westwards from India .

 

[bhsup]

Another thing to back up this theory is the fact that there has been no genetic difference found between the so-called pre-Aryan people of the Indus valley , and modern-day Indian man . That is why I consider Indians to be the original "Aryan" race .

Interesting. I was always under the impression that "Aryan" referred to an ancient people from the region later called Persia (now Iran).

 

[aneeshm]

Interesting. I was always under the impression that "Aryan" referred to an ancient people from the region later called Persia (now Iran).

That is the accepted interpretation . But the absence of biological proof , and the way the word Aryan is used in Sanskrit , combined with the fact that Sanskrit is more complex and more artificial than any other proto-Indo-European language leads me to believe that the Aryans may have been migrants from India .

This migration may have occurred due to the drying up of the Saraswati river , the proof of whose existence has only recently been found , but which has been referenced multiple times in Indian literature . When the river supporting a river-based civilisation dries up , the people have to migrate . That is why the Indus valley people , in my opinion , migrated to different parts of Asia , and deeper into South India , where they and their customs were absorbed into the local culture .

Even going by common sense , this interpretation makes much more sense . This is because migrants from a city-dwelling civilisation would have been far more successful at changing other civilisations than nomads . A migration with the force ( both populational and cultural ) of a city-dwelling civilisation behind it makes far more sense than a causeless nomadic migration .

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

Proto Indo Euros?

mmm PIE.

 

[Mirc]

BTW, this should be in the World History forum.

 

[Shaihulud]

It seems to be just a language group, and not a racial one.

 

[Winner]

Who are these people? When and where did they live? what are their impacts? What is their relationship to the Aryan race?

One theory says, that indo-europeans are in fact a people formely living in place, which is now known as the Black Sea. According to this theory, after the great flooding, which happened about 5,600 BCE, those tribes were forced to find new homelands, so they expanded into Europe, Middle East and India, where they are known as Aryans.

 

[Dida]

BTW, this should be in the World History forum.

this is not world history

 

[Odin2006]

There is one school of linguistics which believes that , as all other proto-Indo-European languages are simpler than Sanskrit , it is Sanskrit which was the mother tongue , and that India was the original home of the Aryans , from which they spread outwards . Another thing to back up this theory is the fact that there has been no genetic difference found between the so-called pre-Aryan people of the Indus valley , and modern-day Indian man . That is why I consider Indians to be the original "Aryan" race .

You will notice that the Aryan influence grows dimmer as one moves westwards from India .

Hindu Nationalist BS.