Cyc
Looking for the door...
I know this is a silly question, but can we get some content in here that remotely resembles Foreign Affairs?
Term 2 - Foreign Affairs Ministry
- Thread starter blackheart
- Start date
Moderator Action: blackheart, JackA, Black Hole - even the DemoGame FA-office thread can be closed if it gets too much off-topic. Consider yourselves warned. Stay on-topic !! - Rik
blackheart
unenlightened
The FA department is back on task! Get to work minions!
Sir Donald III
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2004
- Messages
- 1,074
I'd like for the FA department to possibly consider the pros and cons of establishing an Embassy with France.
Since I already posted, it probbaly won't be for this TC, but still...
Since I already posted, it probbaly won't be for this TC, but still...
Civman2004
Something goes here...
Ooooh - goodie!! A Job!
I'll get straight onto it... I'll need to get home and analyse the save (sadly, I don't have civ3 installed at work!)
For those civs with whom we do not yet have embassies @ 290BC,
Cost of establishing embassy
France 43g
Zululand 43g
Babylon 30g
Current Attitude
All annoyed
Deputy Minister's Recommendation for priority
1. Zulu
2. France
3. Babylon
I believe it is a higher priority to establish an embassy, and good relations, with the Zulu. Citizen sentiment seems to be supporting the idea of an attack against Rome, and we want to ensure, as far as possible, that we are not faced with both Rome and Zulu, and, if necessary, we can even bring the Zulu into the war effort with us. The Zulu are on our doorstep - we don't yet share a land border with the French. In terms of MA, I believe the Zulu will be a more formitable Ally.
The advantage of France would be that if we did decide to go with suicide galleys, I see the most likely points for the location of the new continent as being West of Tours or Lyons, or East of Avignon - we may want to strike out from within their territory, and a ROP might be good for that. Of course a similar argument applies to Nineveh and the Babs.
It does come down to the question of which is the higher priority - war against Rome, or finding the new continent. The answer to the question of which civ to get an embassy with next hinges on the answer to the other question.
What thinks you, esteemed minister Blackheart?
I'll get straight onto it... I'll need to get home and analyse the save (sadly, I don't have civ3 installed at work!)
For those civs with whom we do not yet have embassies @ 290BC,
Cost of establishing embassy
France 43g
Zululand 43g
Babylon 30g
Current Attitude
All annoyed
Deputy Minister's Recommendation for priority
1. Zulu
2. France
3. Babylon
I believe it is a higher priority to establish an embassy, and good relations, with the Zulu. Citizen sentiment seems to be supporting the idea of an attack against Rome, and we want to ensure, as far as possible, that we are not faced with both Rome and Zulu, and, if necessary, we can even bring the Zulu into the war effort with us. The Zulu are on our doorstep - we don't yet share a land border with the French. In terms of MA, I believe the Zulu will be a more formitable Ally.
The advantage of France would be that if we did decide to go with suicide galleys, I see the most likely points for the location of the new continent as being West of Tours or Lyons, or East of Avignon - we may want to strike out from within their territory, and a ROP might be good for that. Of course a similar argument applies to Nineveh and the Babs.
It does come down to the question of which is the higher priority - war against Rome, or finding the new continent. The answer to the question of which civ to get an embassy with next hinges on the answer to the other question.
What thinks you, esteemed minister Blackheart?
MOTH
Emperor
Honorable Foriegn Minister,
Would it be possible for a poll of the people for the next turnchat to see if the people wish for war now? I believe that many citizens feel that there is already sufficient cause for war and that we do not need to wait for further actions by Rome or others. We need to be ready before they declare war on us.
Would it be possible for a poll of the people for the next turnchat to see if the people wish for war now? I believe that many citizens feel that there is already sufficient cause for war and that we do not need to wait for further actions by Rome or others. We need to be ready before they declare war on us.
blackheart
unenlightened
Already have a cassus belli up, Moth: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=99710
Good work Civman. I would have to consider establishing one with France first though. It is unlikely that we would ally with the Zulu given some of our citizens and minister's contempt towards them.
I would like our next embassy to be with the French, but that'll be up to the citizens. I won't poll it however, until we get positive income and have cash reserves of around 100 g after building the embassy. Samurai are coming up and we need money for that.
Good work Civman. I would have to consider establishing one with France first though. It is unlikely that we would ally with the Zulu given some of our citizens and minister's contempt towards them.
I would like our next embassy to be with the French, but that'll be up to the citizens. I won't poll it however, until we get positive income and have cash reserves of around 100 g after building the embassy. Samurai are coming up and we need money for that.
MOTH
Emperor
blackheart said:
I understand and have voted, however from your thread:
blackheart said:
I want a poll that WILL lead directly to a declaration of war if it is the WOTP
MOTH
Emperor
@Civman or @ Blackheart:
Please, can a poll be posted asking the citizens if we should declare war on Rome. Civman, Blackheart posted an official absence due to a broken modem. If we are going to have a poll in time for the next TC then it is up to you.
I will probably post an informational poll on this subject as well.
Thank you for your consideration.
Please, can a poll be posted asking the citizens if we should declare war on Rome. Civman, Blackheart posted an official absence due to a broken modem. If we are going to have a poll in time for the next TC then it is up to you.
I will probably post an informational poll on this subject as well.
Thank you for your consideration.
blackheart
unenlightened
MOTH said:
It is possible a poll for war will be posted after this TC and not before. When samurai come there will definitely be a poll.
MOTH
Emperor
blackheart said:
And what about the will of the people?
In my informal poll there is currently strong support for war now (before the Roman's get Legionaries). If you post a poll now there is still more than 48 hours until the turn chat.You are of course free (responsible) to phase your poll and options however you feel is best. It may be that with a poll with better options (such as wait for Samurai) might come out with different results.
Some of us (well me anyway) feel that we should have already had some war to keep some of our neighbors in check. Especially with the Romans where we can keep them from Iron and thus no Legions.
Please post a poll on this for this turn chat.
Point of order for anyone:
Is there a procedure to force a minister to fulfill his responsibilities? I'm off to read the constitution and code of laws.
Black_Hole
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2004
- Messages
- 3,424
you can file a CC with the judical departmentMOTH said:And what about the will of the people?
You are of course free (responsible) to phase your poll and options however you feel is best. It may be that with a poll with better options (such as wait for Samurai) might come out with different results.
Some of us (well me anyway) feel that we should have already had some war to keep some of our neighbors in check. Especially with the Romans where we can keep them from Iron and thus no Legions.
Please post a poll on this for this turn chat.
Point of order for anyone:
Is there a procedure to force a minister to fulfill his responsibilities? I'm off to read the constitution and code of laws.
blackheart
unenlightened
MOTH said:And what about the will of the people?
You are of course free (responsible) to phase your poll and options however you feel is best. It may be that with a poll with better options (such as wait for Samurai) might come out with different results.
Some of us (well me anyway) feel that we should have already had some war to keep some of our neighbors in check. Especially with the Romans where we can keep them from Iron and thus no Legions.
Please post a poll on this for this turn chat.
Point of order for anyone:
Is there a procedure to force a minister to fulfill his responsibilities? I'm off to read the constitution and code of laws.
The poll pretty much shows a split. If there were overwhelming support the situation would be different.
I am not violating my duties in anyways. For example if we were at war and the people wanted peace and I didn't issues orders for peace, that would be violating the WOTP.
In this situation however, I am acting as a leader and filtering the options for which I think is best and fits the FA agenda.
I feel I have and am completing my duties. I respect your wish to go to war but I will not rush us into a war because one person demands of it.
MOTH
Emperor
My feeling is that the informal poll shows sufficient interest in war now that the Foreign Ministry should perform a more accurate formal poll (or polls). I don't think that my poll should be used *by itself* to determine the WOTP as I specifically stated that it would hold no official weight.
Suggestions for formal polls:
A. Should we declare war against Rome? Yes/No/Abstain
This poll may not be needed as there does seem to be popular support already documented in the polls and discussion threads.
B. When should we declare war with Rome? (could be a multiple choice)
1. Now
2. As soon as Rome Iron city expands in radius
3. Once Samurai are available.
4. Never
5. Abstain
Suggestions for formal polls:
A. Should we declare war against Rome? Yes/No/Abstain
This poll may not be needed as there does seem to be popular support already documented in the polls and discussion threads.
B. When should we declare war with Rome? (could be a multiple choice)
1. Now
2. As soon as Rome Iron city expands in radius
3. Once Samurai are available.
4. Never
5. Abstain
blackheart
unenlightened
MOTH said:
I had already thought of making a poll after this TC. Here's a discussion for it:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=99975
Sir Donald III
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2004
- Messages
- 1,074
Well, good news is that we now have enough gold for Embassies.
At 410 Monarchy Date (90 BC): France = 39 Gold, Other Nations = 32
Now, we do have Upgrades, and possibly even a Rush to think about, true. But we should have enough Gold to cover our current needs and still have enough for a French Embassy.
At 410 Monarchy Date (90 BC): France = 39 Gold, Other Nations = 32
Now, we do have Upgrades, and possibly even a Rush to think about, true. But we should have enough Gold to cover our current needs and still have enough for a French Embassy.
MOTH
Emperor
Note: this is all my personal opinion and is not meant as a personal attack, a threat, or blackmail. My goal at this point in time is to have the Foreign Ministy put up a formal poll asking when we should declare on romans and that the poll include the option of declaring war in the upcoming turn chat.
As I read the documents on Judicial Process, I cannot file a CC unless I believe that someone has violated the consitution or lower form of law.
There are 2 reasons why I will not file a CC:
1. I do not believe that blackheart has violated either at this time (although see below).
2. I do not believe in CCs. I believe that this should be handled at the voting booth in the next election.
As far as violating an article of the constition:
I do believe that blackheart could be endanger of violating Article J. There are 2 current indications of the WOTP:
1. This informal poll As of 10am this poll if 10/20 in favor of war now; 6/20 infavor of later (I read this as Samurai); 2/20 against war; and 2 abstain. 62.5% of those in favor of war want it now.
2. This discussion thread at 10am my count of the posts would be 6/10 for later and 4/10 for before Samurai. 60% in favor of waiting for Samurai.
There are lurkers who prefer to 'speak with their vote', thus I feel that a poll is a more reliable indicator of the WOTP. There is admittedly some question as to the reliability of the poll as it included a statement that this 'holds no official weight'. That the poll was private meant that at least one person voted who would have abstained and the two abstains were at least partially because this was a private poll (1 of which indicated that he would vote for later.) It is also possible that some of the 'later' crowd would want some other criteria (such as "when Rome's border expands to include Iron").
My personal opinion is that if we do not have a clear indication of the WOTP and if a minister does not act to determine the WOTP then that minister is NOT in violation of Article J. My opinion would be that they are leading poorly and should not be re-elected.
Note again: read my first note. This is not a personal attack on anyone.
@blackheart: I repeat myself:
Please, can the honorable Foreign Minister please post a poll asking the citizens when we should declare war on Rome?
(look, I said please twice. Pretty Please? With sugar on top?)
Black_Hole said:
As I read the documents on Judicial Process, I cannot file a CC unless I believe that someone has violated the consitution or lower form of law.
There are 2 reasons why I will not file a CC:
1. I do not believe that blackheart has violated either at this time (although see below).
2. I do not believe in CCs. I believe that this should be handled at the voting booth in the next election.
As far as violating an article of the constition:
Code:
Article J. Elected officials must plan and act according to the will
of the people. The will of the people will be determined
through discussion and polls, formal or informal. ...I do believe that blackheart could be endanger of violating Article J. There are 2 current indications of the WOTP:
1. This informal poll As of 10am this poll if 10/20 in favor of war now; 6/20 infavor of later (I read this as Samurai); 2/20 against war; and 2 abstain. 62.5% of those in favor of war want it now.
2. This discussion thread at 10am my count of the posts would be 6/10 for later and 4/10 for before Samurai. 60% in favor of waiting for Samurai.
There are lurkers who prefer to 'speak with their vote', thus I feel that a poll is a more reliable indicator of the WOTP. There is admittedly some question as to the reliability of the poll as it included a statement that this 'holds no official weight'. That the poll was private meant that at least one person voted who would have abstained and the two abstains were at least partially because this was a private poll (1 of which indicated that he would vote for later.) It is also possible that some of the 'later' crowd would want some other criteria (such as "when Rome's border expands to include Iron").
My personal opinion is that if we do not have a clear indication of the WOTP and if a minister does not act to determine the WOTP then that minister is NOT in violation of Article J. My opinion would be that they are leading poorly and should not be re-elected.
Note again: read my first note. This is not a personal attack on anyone.
@blackheart: I repeat myself:
Please, can the honorable Foreign Minister please post a poll asking the citizens when we should declare war on Rome?
(look, I said please twice. Pretty Please? With sugar on top?)
blackheart
unenlightened
MOTH, there will definitely be a poll after this TC.
As for the poll, 10/23 people want war now, while 6/23 say later, so that is a pretty close split.
I appreciate your adamant position on wanting to invade Rome but as stated before, swordmen do beat easily beat spearmen and we would have many casualties and slowing of our science.
As for the poll, 10/23 people want war now, while 6/23 say later, so that is a pretty close split.
I appreciate your adamant position on wanting to invade Rome but as stated before, swordmen do beat easily beat spearmen and we would have many casualties and slowing of our science.
