Term 3 Judiciary: The more laws, the less justice

[Civanator]

Originally posted by Bootstoots
Ok, I thought there had been reviews on it when I was in the Judiciary, but I wanted a reclarification. This review does not have to be completed as others have already occurred.

I would like to call a second Judicial Review. This has to do with a clarification of an article that was brought up during my recent PI. Here is the text of article C.2.a, the part to be clarified is in bold.

a. The Senate will be formed of the Provincial Governors, each 
         of whom are a Leader responsible for the care, management 
        and use  of the cities and lands of a province. [/code
What exactly does care and management mean? I included lands in bold as well because it appears that the only way to care for or manage lands is for the governors to have control over the workers of a land. How else can land be cared for or managed? Does the constitution allow governors to control worker actions, [/quote]


As Peri said, this issue needs the co-operative attention of all parties to make sure lands in the provinces are managed and cared for resonably.

 

[Bootstoots]

I would like to call Judicial Review over an issue that came up during the turnchat. In the turnchat, GBM said that he was overriding Noldodan's build queue instruction, which had a Courthouse in a place that it shouldn't be built, near the Forbidden Palace. Noldodan is absent, but he had already posted Aventine build queues, which included that courthouse. I ask the Judiciary this: Does a deputy have any right to override an absent governor's build queues? Also, keep in mind that this was during the turnchat, which has been ruled that official instruction cannot occur in.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Bootstoots
I would like to call Judicial Review over an issue that came up during the turnchat. In the turnchat, GBM said that he was overriding Noldodan's build queue instruction, which had a Courthouse in a place that it shouldn't be built, near the Forbidden Palace. Noldodan is absent, but he had already posted Aventine build queues, which included that courthouse. I ask the Judiciary this: Does a deputy have any right to override an absent governor's build queues? Also, keep in mind that this was during the turnchat, which has been ruled that official instruction cannot occur in.

We had this issue before, a long time ago. Deputies should not be exercising any authority if the leader posted instructions. If the leader posted, and there was nothing in the instructions about overriding the queue, the deputy (who in most cases is simply the person who 'lost' the election) has no power to change it.

 

[Bootstoots]

That's my opinion on it too, eyrei, but I'd still like the Judiciary to make a ruling.

 

[donsig]

Regarding this issu, thatbuild queue was change by me. GBM did advise t be done but it was my decision to do it. I do not know if I had the constitutional authority to do this but it needed to be done so I did it.

 

[eyrei]

The reason we used to allow overrides of build queues during the turn chat was primarily because governors do tend to make mistakes. It is almost a Catch - 22. Their instructions need to be followed, but when they are not in the best interest of the nation, and were never really discussed with the citizenry, there should be some method of changing them.

 

[Bootstoots]

But Presidents make mistakes too, so they shouldn't be able to unilaterally override a build queue, and the natural bias of an override council vote makes so that 90% of the time when they want to override a build queue, they get to do it. The governors should be given a bit of trust and some authority, even if they post build queues that are not quite the best possible build queues, they should have the ability to do so. Otherwise, a President could theoretically invent his own build queues for all the cities and pass them through the council, which will almost certainly accept, during a turnchat. In an extreme case, such as if a governor knowingly posted an absurd queue, a moderator could override it.

 

[zorven]

In regards to Bootstoots' issue, the current constitution or code of laws makes no provision for the President to override the legal instructions of leaders. This issue appears to be very straight forward.

 

[ravensfire]

Is there a chat log of this available yet?

 

[Peri]

Before we all work ourselves into another legal frenzy, I think it would be sensible to ask whether Noldodan has any problem with how the situation was handled. If he agrees with the action taken by the DP then we should let this one go in my opinion.
This term has been so litigious that the focus of the demogame is now law making and law breaking. We are supposed to be co-operating here to win the game.

 

[Bootstoots]

I'm not planning on filing any PI's, I just want it made clear that the President cannot override any leader instructions.

 

[Peri]

Originally posted by Bootstoots
I would like to call Judicial Review over an issue that came up during the turnchat. ... I ask the Judiciary this: Does a deputy have any right to override an absent governor's build queues? Also, keep in mind that this was during the turnchat, which has been ruled that official instruction cannot occur in.

There is nothing in either body of law which gives the Deputy Leader the authority to override the provincial Governor.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by zorven
In regards to Bootstoots' issue, the current constitution or code of laws makes no provision for the President to override the legal instructions of leaders. This issue appears to be very straight forward.

It also makes no provision that he or she cannot.

That blade cuts both ways.

 

[Bootstoots]

Though it does not directly say that the president cannot override the governors, it does say this:

a. The President shall be the designated player of the game. 
[b]The President is responsible for following the legal 
instructions of all Leaders during play of the game.[/b]

This shows that the President is responsible for following the legal instructions of all leaders, which would include the governors. If the President must follow the legal instructions of all leaders, the President would not be able to override the legal instructions of leaders, including governors, posted in the turnchat thread.

 

[Goonie]

Wow, how did I miss this one ! Well, it is clear that Donsig has broken no laws. Sure what he did can be construed as unethical, but remember alot of you voted to get rid of the old rules which would have seen donsig landed in the dog house. Anyways, good work donsig on having the perfect crime.