Term V - Msav Reform Bill 1a - Military Upgrade

[Provolution]

TERM V - MSAV REFORM BILL 1A - MILITARY UPGRADE

1425 AD-

Honorable Ministers, Governors and Citizens of Japanatica

MSAV, TERM V, following TERM IV (980-1425 AD), has proven during the campaign and siege of Tugela, that our military is better organized and lead, yet, technologically much inferior to even the Zulus. This means we need a new military reform, which is very ripe and necessary at this point.

MSAV predicts three major military reforms this term, the first starting now with the upgrade of Veteran Samurai to Cavalry and Veteran Musketmen to Riflemen.

36 Veteran Muskets upgrade to Riflemen (Cost 36X40=1440 Gold)
8 Veteran Samurai upgrade to Cavalry (Cost 8X20 Gold=160)

Total Upgrades for "TERM V MSAV REFORM BILL 1A" would be 2600 Gold.
I must reiterate this is a very needed reform, and our government is now brimming with wealth thanks to MSAVs highly economic defense profile.

MSAV will maintain the following traditional divisions, as Honorary Imperial Guard in a few selected cities. Imperial Commando Guard is now officially

Kagemusha: Elite Samurai Division "Grand Admiral Ali"
Zojoji: Elite Samurai Division "General Cyc"
Salamanca: Elite Samurai Division "Admiral Chieftess"
Regent Town: Elite Samurai Division "General Civanator"

Black Mountain Border Guard is now decommissioned, and remaining units has formed "DEA - Team Japanatica - World Police"

Odawara: Elite Swordsman Division "DEA Special Force - Epimethius"
Regular Pikeman Division "Cheech"
Regular Pikeman Division "Chong"

I recommend the entire reform package, which will cost us 2600, but will cover our security needs for 130 years.

 

[Crimso]

That is a lot of money to be asking for, Provolution. I definitley agree that Musketmen are not an exceptible defense for our nation at this point, but couldn't you request some builds for riflemen instead of upgrading all of them? We aren't in immediate danger, and after building all the hospitals, factories, and maybe police stations, our cities won't have much to do but build wealth for some time. By then, we should have replaceable parts and all that good stuff. Mr. President is currently seeking to place science at 0% for a few turns leading up to the completion of ToE, so there's some money to go around if that happens.

If you have fancy plans for recon cavs then by all means upgrade them. 160 gold is really nothing.

Edit: Haha, double check your math! Your proposal is a full grand miscalculated. No worries, I think I will support this now, but I don't think we need to upgrade all of the musketmen. And don't say it is to just do all of them, because in Vanilla there is no upgrade all button!

 

[Provolution]

We will still have to pay for the upgrades at replaceable parts anyways, but we need to upgrade in increments. I have been very soft on the military budget, which partly explains the extreme wealth of Japanatica. My expenses are not excessive, but plain out necessary. 1600 Gold is a very very small price for our national security.
Also, my build orders would be around 20 units plus, so don't say MSAV is expensive.
Without this reform, I cannot guarantee Japanatican security, unless we draft in war.

 

[Provolution]

Besides, I believe the military earnt it, since we got you a Forbidden Palace, losing troops in the process. Better support this bill, I can see the corruption waste of 13 turns there.

 

[Moss]

I agree with Provo...It's a relatively small price.

 

[Ashburnham]

Besides, I believe the military earnt it, since we got you a Forbidden Palace, losing troops in the process. Better support this bill, I can see the corruption waste of 13 turns there.

Yes, yes, we all remember how tirelessly you fought for the Forbidden Palace, Provo.

However, I don't see how you can say this is essential for Japanatica's national security. We're clearly not having any problems with the Zulu at the moment. In fact, we've never had any trouble in a war since the Roman conquests. If there's clearly a large amount of support behind this bill, I suppose I'll support it. But don't say that this bill is the one thing standing between Japanatica and a draft.

 

[Provolution]

Dear Minister Ashburnham, you are not turning the cape by the wind are you
And where is Robin ?

And don't leave us hanging with muskets against riflemen, that is plain greed, and I have already seen your sophisticated diplomacy at work, nice for workers, poor for international stability, detachment is hardly a strategy at all. I agreed with your repatriation schemes, even sending all of them home (mostly to save DP time and gain better relations). I saw how Tugela was hard fought, and how easy potential Cavalry attacks could take out our muskets. I can assure you a draft will happen if this reform is not passing. And if you vote against majority, show you take your stand.
We got 6000 Gold here.

 

[ravensfire]

Hmmm, do we need to upgrade them all?

How about we upgrade the outer cities, and continually upgrade troops in those cities to the highest standards. In our inner cities, we keep "honor guards" of the older style units - ceremonial troops. Our inner cities are at minimal risk, and don't need the latest and greatest.

There are a great many other uses for our cash reserves. Let's use our treasury to catapult us well into the Industrialized age, with factories and hospitals rapidly being built. Upgrading everything everywhere - a waste.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Provolution]

We need certain guarantees against ROP Rape, as we got a paper-thin defense in depth since we got railroads. The military is still very very cost effective, thanks to good organization and good application of limited troops. The problems we faced in the Tugela Campaign in difficult terrain, as well as facing riflemen with inferior troops, made it a harder win than hoped for.

For honorary guards, they must have earnt theur stripes, we only keep elites and the 2 pikemen regulars. MSAV wants to phase out all Muskets. However, We can do this over two turnchats, due to time restraints.

 

[blackheart]

Upgrade, but the price is lower than proposed Provo. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106222

The CIA will run another poll on this matter soon.

 

[Provolution]

By the way

2 Samurais are 2 turns away from port, so it will be 8 vet sams.
I also agree on not upgrading regular muskets, second thought.

 

[ravensfire]

Moving discussion to the CIA thread. I would suggest canceling this poll, and repoll based upon that discussion.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Nobody]

i agree with the upgrades.

 

[MOTH]

I votedd other. Upgrade the offensive units and defensive units in border towns only. Don't sign ROPs with anyone.

 

[blackheart]

Even as humorous as this poll is with the reference to how great the MSAV has been in saving us money and the ridiculous DEA and Cheech and Chong, this poll will not determine what will be upgrade, the CIA will determine this in a poll.

 

[Provolution]

Well, in a sense, it is valid, but to be adjustd, due to the fact people want to upgrade veterans at least, but maybe also regulars. You need to neutrally poll both options.
So, this poll is in a sense valid, by constitution as an advisory poll, and will indeed lead up to the second poll. So there is no need to belittle the work done here Minister Blackheart.

 

[snipelfritz]

I votedd other. Upgrade the offensive units and defensive units in border towns only. Don't sign ROPs with anyone.

I agree with MOTH and his double ds, in reference to his spelling error.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Actually, it's only 1600g for all stated upgrades. Sounds worth it to me.

Besides, I believe the military earnt it, since we got you a Forbidden Palace, losing troops in the process. Better support this bill, I can see the corruption waste of 13 turns there.

Can you explain the above statement? It seems to me that MSAV led the way in voting to postpone the FP for a Cav Army way back in the day. That Army sat through 30+ corrupt turns before going on to prove its worth by losing 10 hit points in its first battle. What's up with that?

 

[Strider]

No upgrades right now, replaceable parts and infantry are coming within the next turnchat. Lets do the upgrades after that.

 

[Provolution]

Strider, yes, that would be cost-effective, timewise, and allow SD3 to have a post-turn round with upgrades, we do not really want to wait for him to do, and delay posting the save till he is done. I think DP could delay upgrades to the end of the TC, then do all of them. But I agree, upgrade all cannons and veteran muskets to artilery and infantry right away, and all regular muskets to Riflemen, and 8 Vet Sam to Cavs.