Test Version - October 8th (10/8)

[Funak]

Time to go get a monopoly on coffee.

Coffee monopoly is so weak, who cares about happiness?

 

[Gazebo]

Come on man, that's just silly...
Culture and faith would be a way better solution. Some overlapping with the honor opener and the Celtic UU doesn't really matter that much.

Ah, I thought my 'heh' would indicate that this was a joke, but I guess not. It's a joke. Faith is being added, though.

Replacing the Culture isn't the worst idea, though. Maybe just Gold? Gold is good, and would be useful for an early-game warmonger.

I wish that it were possible to have the tourism bonus for trade routes scale opposite of each other (sorry I just woke up and can't remember the proper name. I'm talking about a scale where the more you head towards one the further you are from the other).

I had it this way, but people balked at the idea as punishing the player for doing well. That makes sense, I guess. I'm still considering making the Science bonus only available if you already getting Science from them, as that'd help balance out the 'abuse thy neighbor' TR model.
G

 

[callmewoof]

Coffee monopoly is so weak, who cares about happiness?

Seems appropriate. Makes me happy! Or at least more productive (Omg petition to change coffee monopoly to hammers!)

 

[Strec]

I'm going to let the AI autoplay a few games tomorrow while I work. We'll see how it goes.

I suppose you have also stats on how it goes and I'm surprised concerning Honor.

I hope the update of culture on all kills will help but for example in the game I'm on all civs (even me!!!) have at turn 119 their policies at 5/5 but the two civ with authority : Polynesia 4/5 - Spain 3/5.

 

[Gazebo]

I suppose you have also stats on how it goes and I'm surprised concerning Honor.

I hope the update of culture on all kills will help but for example in the game I'm on all civs (even me!!!) have at turn 119 their policies at 5/5 but the two civ with authority : Polynesia 4/5 - Spain 3/5.

Strec, I know you have issue with Honor, but remember the key element of Honor is conquering other cities. The force-multiplication of city conquest is huge, especially early on. For every city you conquer, you not only get bonus culture, golden age points, probably also science and culture from unit kills, but you are denying access to that for the other player and wasting their production. It's a swing that's strong - there needs to be a downside for Honor to play nice with the other two branches.

G

 

[Strec]

Strec, I know you have issue with Honor,

I've no more problems with Honor (but the very very early game) and your 2 last updates, I think, will really balance the tree itself.

When I say 'no more problems' it's no more problem to play the policie but on the RP GP level I'm sad to rush trade and philosophy first to be able to really begin a secure conquest, nothing blocking.

I was just surprised that even AIs are in culture when choosing Honor but perhaps they will advance quicker later.

 

[Funak]

Ah, I thought my 'heh' would indicate that this was a joke, but I guess not. It's a joke. Faith is being added, though.

I was under the impression that we didn't joke around in official patchnotes

Replacing the Culture isn't the worst idea, though. Maybe just Gold? Gold is good, and would be useful for an early-game warmonger.

Culture is fine, if you really don't want overlapping I got some ideas, but keeping the culture is fine.

I had it this way, but people balked at the idea as punishing the player for doing well. That makes sense, I guess. I'm still considering making the Science bonus only available if you already getting Science from them, as that'd help balance out the 'abuse thy neighbor' TR model.

I don't like that idea at all. But something should probably be done about this. The combo of tourism from traderoutes as well as science from tourismal domination is always going to lead to you focusing all your trade on your culturally weakest neighbor, and make him even culturally weaker.

Seems appropriate. Makes me happy! Or at least more productive (Omg petition to change coffee monopoly to hammers!)

Tea gives hammers.

 

[Gazebo]

I was under the impression that we didn't joke around in official patchnotes


Culture is fine, if you really don't want overlapping I got some ideas, but keeping the culture is fine.



I don't like that idea at all. But something should probably be done about this. The combo of tourism from traderoutes as well as science from tourismal domination is always going to lead to you focusing all your trade on your culturally weakest neighbor, and make him even culturally weaker.



Tea gives hammers.

I can joke when I want to! Is a game, after all.

We're going to try Gold. Monty AI seems to like it.

We're also going to try the science 'only if gaining science' method. Seems less snowball-y. Also removing the era scaling on gold/science - was simply over-performing for cultural civs. The extra growth, plus those bonuses (and the fact that it's a win condition) are incentives enough.

G

 

[Funak]

I can joke when I want to! Is a game, after all.

OBJECTION!

We're going to try Gold. Monty AI seems to like it.

Just keep the culture, gold is boring af.

It's not like Monty sacrifices people to Mammon.

We're also going to try the science 'only if gaining science' method. Seems less snowball-y. Also removing the era scaling on gold/science - was simply over-performing for cultural civs. The extra growth, plus those bonuses (and the fact that it's a win condition) are incentives enough.

Awesome, now the only part that is left is the one I found most stupid in the first place .
Maybe just choose one of those changes instead? I mean if you're getting rid of the era-scaling you really don't need to limit it to technologically advanced neighbors.

 

[Gazebo]

OBJECTION!


Just keep the culture, gold is boring af.




Awesome, now the only part that is left is the one I found most stupid in the first place .
Maybe just choose one of those changes instead? I mean if you're getting rid of the era-scaling you really don't need to limit it to technologically advanced neighbors.

You really do, though, as science would otherwise triple-scale (# of trade routes + natural scaling + tourism scaling). It was blowing up the mid/late game science rate (trade routes were better than cities in some cases).

We're going to try Gold on the Aztecs. They get two yields (where it used to be one), and gold is a wee bit more flexible (esp. since they can grab Honor for their old UA, and then have three yields from kills).

G

 

[Funak]

You really do, though, as science would otherwise triple-scale (# of trade routes + natural scaling + tourism scaling). It was blowing up the mid/late game science rate (trade routes were better than cities in some cases).

I'm sure that had nothing to do with the era-scaling....

We're going to try Gold on the Aztecs. They get two yields (where it used to be one), and gold is a wee bit more flexible (esp. since they can grab Honor for their old UA, and then have three yields from kills).

Okay, I REALLY dislike the gold-idea, so I'm going to keep trying.
How about giving them culture based on faith spent along with the current faith on kill?

 

[Strec]

Okay, I REALLY dislike the gold-idea, so I'm going to keep trying.

I agree, I think Gold is not needed in the early game, food is a lot better

 

[Gazebo]

I'm sure that had nothing to do with the era-scaling....


Okay, I REALLY dislike the gold-idea, so I'm going to keep trying.
How about giving them culture based on faith spent along with the current faith on kill?

That makes no sense. They'd get a yield for spending a yield? Nah, that's an entirely new system to teach the AI.

We're trying Gold for this version.

G

 

[Funak]

That makes no sense. They'd get a yield for spending a yield? Nah, that's an entirely new system to teach the AI.

I don't see how they would need to know anything about it, I mean they do spend their faith, right? All this would do is give them culture when they do.

We're trying Gold for this version.

If you keep doing this I'm going to have to challenge you to an Agni kai.
Honestly gold is an extremely boring resource, even if it would be useful the first 50 turns, rapid inflation makes it pretty much useless after that. And considering faith pretty much works that same way, it makes the entire thing boring.

 

[Deluxe]

If you keep doing this I'm going to have to challenge you to an Agni kai.
Honestly gold is an extremely boring resource, even if it would be useful the first 50 turns, rapid inflation makes it pretty much useless after that. And considering faith pretty much works that same way, it makes the entire thing boring.

I don't agree with you here. Upgrade cost in CPB are so high that more gold is always welcome imho.

I tried one game with this version, and the snowballing from culture is pretty incredible. I was in a bad position (playing on Immortal) and I could not create one trade route without giving twice more gold that I was receiving.

 

[Funak]

I don't agree with you here. Upgrade cost in CPB are so high that more gold is always welcome imho.

Gold earned from kills is going to be based of the killed unit's combatstrength, and that number doesn't increase nearly as quickly as the upgradecost or just general gold inflation.

 

[hokath]

If you keep doing this I'm going to have to challenge you to an Agni kai.

You would get obliterated.

 

[Funak]

You would get obliterated.

In that case I would become a martyr.

 

[Finarvi]

I think that early is actualy useful. You can end with negative gpt if you go warmonger. If not, it can be used to buy new units.

 

[Funak]

I think that early is actualy useful. You can end with negative gpt if you go warmonger. If not, it can be used to buy new units.

Anything is useful early.
But comparing gold, which there are plenty of ways to acquire, traderoutes, specialists, cityconnections, trade, resources, buildings, wonders, policies. To for example culture, which is a lot harder to earn, with limited specialists, buildings, wonders and policies all providing extremely small sums.
I mean no matter how useful you think gold is earlygame, you would swap your 6 gpt caravan for 6 culture per turn every time, wouldn't you?