TETurkhan Test of Time (Map & Mod)

[RagnarD]

Hey, Tet,

I have a couple comments about your Polish Civ:

1. One of your starting cities is "Danzig". Disregarding, for the moment, any questions concering what civilization that city really belongs to, the Poles call the city "Gdansk". They would never use the name given it by the Germans.
2. Sobieski's first name would be "Jan", not "John". The "John" is a common Americanizaton of "Jan".
3. King Casimir/Kasimierz would probably be a better leader. Not only was he the only "Great" king in Poland's history, he comes with a really cool leader head: Here . Sobieski was more of a military leader and prolly belongs as a great leader.

Please pardon the nit picking, but it's personal.

otherwise, this is a great mod. The map is incredible. keep it up!

rd

 

[TETurkhan]

In most cases it’s tough to pick one name over another (regarding units, Civs, cities or leaders).

i.e.

Constantinople – Istanbul
Janissary – Yeni Ceri
Edo – Tokyo
Turkey – Turkiye (this one especially annoys me

I will make the name changes you suggested, but I am going to keep King Sobieski. As for that leaderhead is that a static one? If not it looks real good! Would love to put that in the next version – who created it?

Please pardon the nit picking, but it's personal.

Not at all, I was debating the exact very things you brought up when making the mod. Look for the changes in the next version (first I have to find out more about this new leaderhead).

 

[kormer]

Ok finally finished my german game. After I got past that little blurp I decided to let loose the dogs of war and finish it up. The tanks didn't seem to be as unbalancing as I initially thought that they would be. Not too happy about tanks not going through hills/forests without roads, but I guess going through mountains would be even more unbalancing. Firaxis needs to put in a checkbox for each terrain. By this point in the game though I was a mega-super power and nobody was really going to do anything about that. The game ended just into the modern era, so I don't really have any feedback on that. I probably won't be giving any feedback on the modern era for my next game either judgeing by how its going so far...but I'll save that story for another day.

 

[TETurkhan]

Future Hit-List for Mod Changes:

• New Smaller World Map (medium size) for people with slower PCs.

• Synthetic resource

• Changes to Poland (King Name, Leader Head, and cities)

• Americans will be in with certain conditions.
- City & World Map version: They will be stuck on an island, no settlers, no transport ships, basically just pirates until 1500AD. At that time I will give the transport ships, cheap settlers, enabling them to colonize mainland America
- Mod version: They will be just like any other Civ, no building restrictions.

• New UU for Abyssinians, Songhai

If you have any suggestions that you would like to see implemented, then please post your ideas and I will consider them.

thanks

 

[erez87]

what about a bigger map? with much room for the many europian nations to live... without many wars i mean...

 

[kormer]

Originally posted by erez87
what about a bigger map? with much room for the many europian nations to live... without many wars i mean...

Thats an epic question thats troubled modders for many civ-style games for years. Problem is you have some very powerfull countries that are relatively small space-wise to other less powerfull countries. Its incredibly difficult to model this in a civ game and have it come out right. One thing I'm noticing is that China seems to always be #1 with india coming in a close #2 spot for the AI's. Historically they were both fairly large compared to their european counterparts, the problem i with the technology tree. Once you got into the middle ages most of the world had stopped dead in their track with technology, and towards the end of the middle ages the europeans really took off with the renaisance and then the industrial revolution. It would be nice if you could just tell the game, after such and such technology has been researched only european nations can have technology above 40% or something like that. From a gameplay standpoint things are fine the way they are now, but from a historical standpoint its not going to come out anything like reality, especially after the middle ages.

 

[RagnarD]

Tet,

A guy named "Piernik" made the Casimir leader head, and it is animated. Pretty good looking, too, I agree. He may need some convincing to let you use it in another mod, but he should come around. Pretty good Polish UU, too, in his mod pack - you might look into that, as well.

As for Sobieski, he's was an actual king, so I don't object too strenuously to your choice. At least he's not like Joan d'Arc, who never led anything but an army. Sobieski is pretty famous, too, as the guy who saved Vienna.

rd

 

[kormer]

Whats the baseline difficulty level for the scenario supposed to be? IE, which difficulty level should it be played on to get a more or less historical result where the UN/manhatten project are built around mid 1900's or so?

 

[TETurkhan]

Whats the baseline difficulty level for the scenario supposed to be? IE, which difficulty level should it be played on to get a more or less historical result where the UN/manhatten project are built around mid 1900's or so?

Its hard to say, sometimes I find the tech too slow, sometimes fast. Just got to test it I guess.

 

[kormer]

Assume for a moment that a game was played with no human interaction, just the AI. For a given difficulty level do you care when the tech tree is fully researched? Are you going for a fun game or a historically based game? In the game I'm playing now smith's trading company was built in 10 AD. At this rate the entire tech tree will be researched before the middle ages even began.

Also kind of related to this, but is there any one nation that you want favored to win without much challenge or should most countries have a chance, small, but a chance, of winning the game? Again this is assuming an AI-only game, no human interaction.

 

[TETurkhan]

Thats too fast,
what level is that and are you a factor in the game - meaning are you dominating the entire world?

In the city mod some Civs are favored over others, such as China, India and a few others. However just the world map with out cities this is not the case... I have seen one game when the Turks got conquered, one where the Indians did... and as for nations that don't stand a chance - I played Israel (2 cities), deity, and am kicking butt

 

[thestonesfan]

Kormer - Concerning the Europe question, one idea I've been kicking around is having the units be drastically different between Civ "culture groups". Some civs, like the Egyptians, Babylonians, and Greeks, will have a definate edge in the ancient age, while most of the European civs will have to struggle to survive. Then in the later Middle Ages on up, it's all about Western Europe and the Russians. In the Far East, they are pretty steady until the late middle ages, when Europe's Musket Infantry really takes command. The Turks and Arabs are weak in the ancient ages, but then get the Holy Warrior unit(I hate wasting a cool unit like the Immortal on one civ only) that should let them dominate the region. In theory, they should get weaker by the late middle ages and the Middle East will become a battleground for competing European powers, except for the Turks, who get the Sipahi and remain in contention. Still, I've never tried this out.

The Romans pose an issue, however. I made the Legions a lot better than any contemporary unit, so the Romans will have little competition in the Swordsman era. Unfortunately for modders, although the Roman Empire collapsed, Rome remained the most powerful city in Europe for many years.

Historical accuracy is a real pain in the butt. It's pretty much impossible to recreate in Civ3.

 

[thestonesfan]

I like the idea of an "American Destiny" mod. I agree that the Americans should not be in a historically based game, since they would ruin the fun of colonialization in the New World.

I don't know about setting it in 1500 though, since until the revolutionary war it was primarily France and England fighting. Maybe set it in 1800, and bend history a bit to include an independent Canada, Mexico, and several South American nations.

 

[TETurkhan]

Kormer, in the game your playing is the problem just the year or are the techs getting researched too fast? If its just the year I can easily start the game at 4000BC versus 5000BC. However if its an increase how fast techs take to research then I actually have to adjust the era tech costs.

 

[kormer]

I'm playing on monarch and I've had almost no influence on the AI's so far. I think I found something that might help out a lot. For writing there is a check box, "enable trading communications" For my next game I'd like to move this back so maybe navigation, or even further and see what happens.

The more civs you know have a tech you are researching the easier it is to research, so if when you start the game you know all the civs already, researching is that much easier. By moving this back the chinese won't know about the english unless they travel there or until much later in the game, which should slow things down a bit.

I'm not sure if its related to this, but in my game india and china are behemoths compared to everyone else, and china has built most of the GW's. I'll post some ideas on this later, but I think china and india both need to be tuned down a bit. I would add turkistan to that list, but something tells me that wouldn't change

 

[kormer]

I've got a bunch of ideas for game balancing. Biggest one is moving the trade communications advance back some. I also like the idea of giving certain cultures more powerfull units. Thats already in to an extent, but would be interesting to see it made even more dramatic. Would you be interested in a civ by civ analysis of wether they are too strong/weak and what could be changed and still keep the game realistic?

 

[Piernik]

Originally posted by RagnarD
Tet,

A guy named "Piernik" made the Casimir leader head, and it is animated. Pretty good looking, too, I agree. He may need some convincing to let you use it in another mod, but he should come around. Pretty good Polish UU, too, in his mod pack - you might look into that, as well.

As for Sobieski, he's was an actual king, so I don't object too strenuously to your choice. At least he's not like Joan d'Arc, who never led anything but an army. Sobieski is pretty famous, too, as the guy who saved Vienna.

rd

I've talked with RangarD and I agree

Please consider me in credits
But I insist that polish leader shoud be known as Casimir the Great. Why?? Because his on a picture that I've made And secondly we had a probe and most of Poles declared that Casimir is the best to represent polish civilization

 

[TETurkhan]

Piernk, thats great to hear!

I will change the king then, and any other details you want changed (civilopedia etc) do so now pls.

Can we get this down today?


Kormer, I know why the tech is going to fast. I made the mod so Civs have more money to buy units, the problem is, they can also use this money to steal techs - god knows I am

This is a great thing cause IMO nations stole just as much tech as they researched... however the rate is going to fast in a game I am playing too...

the key here is:

- is it just the year that is off, meaning if I adjust the start year from 5000BC to 4000 will it rectify everything

- or is it the rate at which techs get discovered in a certain era out of balance.

email me on this pls.

 

[kormer]

I'll post an indepth analysis when I'm finished with my current game which is turning out pretty interestingly. I've come to the conclusion that overall tech research is fine, might need some fine tuning, the problem is china moreso than any other nation is now well into the industrial era in 500AD, and the rest of the world is near the end of the middle ages. I think some weakening of china and india would solve the problem. Changing the year wouldn't change much because you would still have china+india almost an entire period ahead of everyone else.

I think the celts should be taken out and redistributed to other european powers. Use them to make a new civ with some of india's current cities. Maybe like 3-4 of their north-west cities. I'm not too sure on what you could call it, but this would slow down india a bit, and its quite probable that india would take those cities back later in the game. Another option is giving 1-2 cities there to Persia and another one to the turks.

For the Koreans change them to the manchurians and give them a few cities in northern china. Move Peking to Luoyang and give the manchurian 2-3 more cities north of the new Peking. There is a lot of historical precedence for this one since Manchuria actually exsisted as a seperate entity for a very long time, not sure when they merged with china officially though. In WWII the communists gained a lot of followers because the Nationalist leader was actually a manchurian and most chinese did not recognize him as being "chinese."

Also get rid of taiwan completely or give it to the indonesians. When the dutch landed there in the 1500's they actually found decendents of polyponesians rather than chinese. Up until the late 1800's it was used as a pirate base, and although on paper was a part of china, there was no official goverment representation there.

 

[TETurkhan]

Originally I wanted to recreate the Romance of the Three Kingdoms Era in China. Three states, Wu, Shu & Wei which would of balanced China, same goes for India I was planning on spilting them in two, but I was already at the max number of Civs.

I have a game going on as well, lets touch base when both are complete to make any necessary revisions.