Teutonic Order as a civ ?

Naokaukodem

Millenary King
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
4,242
I'm reading Histoire mondiale de la guerre économique (Worldwide History of the Economic War) and read some passage about the Templiers concluding on the Teutonic Order. Those lasts seem to have grew so big militarily and economically that they ended to form kind of their own state.

During my reading, I even had an idea of an ability, unfortunately I can't remember it. I guess they could be economic (gold) based.

However that's not a civilization so to speak, so I don't know. Maybe that's my long waited difference between a civilization and a state...
 
Humankind included them as the Teutons. Felt like a weird choice honestly but if it leads to unique gameplay why not, not to mention from my very basic understanding of history compared to most here they had a huge influence on the region.

That being said, when accounting for the limited number of civs each game comes with, I don't think a 'civ' like the Teutons should take up a space that could be given to someone else, at least not for the base game.
 
It might be more in Civ's style to make a Teutonic Order leader for Germany, much in the same vein as Freddy B is a Holy Roman leader for Germany, thereby avoiding the need for an awkward HRE civ.
 
As said above I don't see the real need for a separate Teutonic Order civ when we know we are also going to get a German civ, and most likely Poland again. I think a Teutonic Knight unique unit that could found cities could work as a UU for a German civ though.

It might be more in Civ's style to make a Teutonic Order leader for Germany, much in the same vein as Freddy B is a Holy Roman leader for Germany, thereby avoiding the need for an awkward HRE civ.
I wouldn't possibility mind a separate Frankish civ with Charlemagne, which to me it would make it less awkward considering it's just as French as it is German. But that's only if Germany is more oriented toward Prussia.
 
As said above I don't see the real need for a separate Teutonic Order civ when we know we are also going to get a German civ, and most likely Poland again. I think a Teutonic Knight unique unit that could found cities could work as a UU for a German civ though.


I wouldn't possibility mind a separate Frankish civ with Charlemagne, which to me it would make it less awkward considering it's just as French as it is German. But that's only if Germany is more oriented toward Prussia.

A Teutonic leader with a medieval LUU for Germany would be very good. It would give militaristic Germany fans the Germans they wanted from the beginning, and simultaneously rep the Teutonic Order.
 
I think the best way to represent the Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem without stuffing another European Civ into Civ VII would be as a very specialized City State.

Use Königsberg, their largest city, or Marienburg, their best-preserved castle, give them a UU of a Teutonic Brother (knight) and make them a Militaristic City State - but an aggressive one which attacks any Barbarian Camp within X tiles (based on map size) and any other City State or Civ following no religion or a different religion from theirs - and they would start with a Religion or get one as soon as anybody on the map did.
To represent their extreme expansionism they might even have a 'special mechanic' where they expand their borders every time they destroy a Barbarian Camp.
 
I think the best way to represent the Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem without stuffing another European Civ into Civ VII would be as a very specialized City State.
I was going to suggest that this might be a better option. I was thinking of Acre though. I realize it's outside of the Teutonic State boundaries, but considering it's where the Teutonic Order started I think it's appropriate considering it's not like we'd be getting an Israel civ anytime soon.
Though I guess Konigsberg wouldn't be on Germany's city list either so it's still as appropriate.
 
I was going to suggest that this might be a better option. I was thinking of Acre though. I realize it's outside of the Teutonic State boundaries, but considering it's where the Teutonic Order started I think it's appropriate considering it's not like we'd be getting an Israel civ anytime soon.
Though I guess Konigsberg wouldn't be on Germany's city list either so it's still as appropriate.

The Teutonic Knights really comes in two distinct Flavors or Incarnations - the first with HQ in Acre as a Religious Aid group, the second as a very expansionist religious/military group in Hungary or the Baltic. The latter is what they are best known for, though, and also where they had the most political/diplomatic impact, so that's what I concentrated on.
 
I was going to suggest that this might be a better option. I was thinking of Acre though. I realize it's outside of the Teutonic State boundaries, but considering it's where the Teutonic Order started I think it's appropriate considering it's not like we'd be getting an Israel civ anytime soon.
Though I guess Konigsberg wouldn't be on Germany's city list either so it's still as appropriate.
The Teutonic Knights really comes in two distinct Flavors or Incarnations - the first with HQ in Acre as a Religious Aid group, the second as a very expansionist religious/military group in Hungary or the Baltic. The latter is what they are best known for, though, and also where they had the most political/diplomatic impact, so that's what I concentrated on.
I don't want or need a Crusader State civ...but man, do I wish there were a good way to represent figures like Melisende of Jerusalem in Civ.
 
make a special Military Order mechanic where military orders you form can turn into full fledged civs of your own. they start out as your vassals and are formed for a special purpose (giving you a bonus to something), but can flip away from you if you do enough things they don't like
 
make a special Military Order mechanic where military orders you form can turn into full fledged civs of your own. they start out as your vassals and are formed for a special purpose (giving you a bonus to something), but can flip away from you if you do enough things they don't like

Let me 'double down' on this with a vote for more Non-Civ Factions or what is now called NGO (Non-Government Organizations) but in fact dates back a lot further and so could be implemented very early in the game:

1. the 'crusading' Military Orders - which in fact were almost completely independent of governments from the start, which resulted in pretty bloody government destruction of some of them (Templars, Teutonic Knights) in the end.
2. International Mercenary Companies - some of which, like the famous White Company, were army-sized organizations in the Medieval Era. Earlier, Xenophon's '10,000' from the Anabasis was, in fact, a large mercenary unit hired by Persia - which, to be sure, was the only organization around with the money to hire a force that large, but it shows what could be included even in a Classical Era setting.
And, of course, another 'variant' would be the Industrial Era Foreign Legions, which included not only the French, but also a Spanish Legion and the mercenary/foreign contingents in pre-French Revolution armies in Europe: including the Irish Brigade in France, the Scots Brigade in the Netherlands, and the Swiss nearly everywhere until the Bourbons in France bought up a monopoly on them.
3. International banking family organizations in Europe at the end of the Medieval Era, morphing into the giant International banking firms in the Modern Era or the slightly earlier National Banking organizations (Bank of England, Royal Bank of Scotland, etc) and international Exchanges (Amsterdam, London, New York, etc) that attract money from outside the Civ and, frequently, send money outside the Civ to finance developments elsewhere - a huge percentage of railroad construction outside of Europe in the 19th century was financed with European or American money that way.
4. Other 'Religious' Groups (in addition to or a sub-set of the Military Orders) like the Hashashin or the Shaolin with potentially Un-religious effects not exactly military but potentially disruptive (example: Hassan's merry Assassins removing your Great People or Governors now and then)
5. International trading organizations. As far back as Classical Athens there were informal groups of investors that provided 'insurance' or financial banking for international and long distance (by the standards of the time) Trade, and even when governments tried to control that (East India Companies and similar in the early Industrial Era) there were also 'private' firms independent of governments that greatly influenced developments: John Jacob Astor, Vanderbilt and the other Railroad/shipping magnates, etc.

Some of these 'NGO' groups could be handled by a Great People mechanic - Great Generals that form Mercenary Companies or Great Merchants that form independent Trade/Finance organizations, for instance. But in general, I think the game would be much richer and less predictable with more 'independent actors' in-game, and a group of NGOs would be one such set.
 
Let me 'double down' on this with a vote for more Non-Civ Factions or what is now called NGO (Non-Government Organizations) but in fact dates back a lot further and so could be implemented very early in the game:

1. the 'crusading' Military Orders - which in fact were almost completely independent of governments from the start, which resulted in pretty bloody government destruction of some of them (Templars, Teutonic Knights) in the end.
2. International Mercenary Companies - some of which, like the famous White Company, were army-sized organizations in the Medieval Era. Earlier, Xenophon's '10,000' from the Anabasis was, in fact, a large mercenary unit hired by Persia - which, to be sure, was the only organization around with the money to hire a force that large, but it shows what could be included even in a Classical Era setting.
And, of course, another 'variant' would be the Industrial Era Foreign Legions, which included not only the French, but also a Spanish Legion and the mercenary/foreign contingents in pre-French Revolution armies in Europe: including the Irish Brigade in France, the Scots Brigade in the Netherlands, and the Swiss nearly everywhere until the Bourbons in France bought up a monopoly on them.
3. International banking family organizations in Europe at the end of the Medieval Era, morphing into the giant International banking firms in the Modern Era or the slightly earlier National Banking organizations (Bank of England, Royal Bank of Scotland, etc) and international Exchanges (Amsterdam, London, New York, etc) that attract money from outside the Civ and, frequently, send money outside the Civ to finance developments elsewhere - a huge percentage of railroad construction outside of Europe in the 19th century was financed with European or American money that way.
4. Other 'Religious' Groups (in addition to or a sub-set of the Military Orders) like the Hashashin or the Shaolin with potentially Un-religious effects not exactly military but potentially disruptive (example: Hassan's merry Assassins removing your Great People or Governors now and then)
5. International trading organizations. As far back as Classical Athens there were informal groups of investors that provided 'insurance' or financial banking for international and long distance (by the standards of the time) Trade, and even when governments tried to control that (East India Companies and similar in the early Industrial Era) there were also 'private' firms independent of governments that greatly influenced developments: John Jacob Astor, Vanderbilt and the other Railroad/shipping magnates, etc.

Some of these 'NGO' groups could be handled by a Great People mechanic - Great Generals that form Mercenary Companies or Great Merchants that form independent Trade/Finance organizations, for instance. But in general, I think the game would be much richer and less predictable with more 'independent actors' in-game, and a group of NGOs would be one such set.
very good idea, although i could see players trying to exploit this...eh, whatever it's a game
 
Back
Top Bottom