TGOM03 - Celts in Space (C3C Demi-god)

[scoutsout]

Suggestions for the team and next better player:

• Equip a settler in G.O.C. after the archer, and use it to claim the silks by settling on the southwestern "green dot" in my earlier dotmap. It might be time to build a granary after the settler.
• If I'm correct, Sally should be done irrigating/roading that tile south of TJ'ville about one turn too late for a Perfectly Timed Forest Chop 1W of G.O.C. (to add to a granary).
• Watch the MM on TJ'ville! The stupid governor keeps trying to work the trees. When Sally is done with her work there will be 2 roaded/irrigated/riverside plains tiles that town can work. Work the roaded grass third. Much gold potential in that town.

I guess it's time for me to turn it over to the next better player. Here's > > The Save < <.

Looks like we're not squeezed in too badly. Good luck!

 

[gmaharriet]

Got it and will play tonight after work.

Took a look at the save and could use some input on trading priorities after Myst comes in. Bronze, Masonry, Alpha and Wheel are currently out there, and I'm thinking we'd want Bronze to get closer to our UU and Alpha for an exploring curragh or two. Wheel seems less important since GS have 2 movement, so Masonry also if I can. I don't usually research this branch of the tech tree, so I'm not sure what Myst is worth.

I'm thinking a barracks next in TJville for stronger barbslayers. I have no idea how soon to expect the "turn of age" at this level.

Could also use the "why" on our strat of maximizing commerce, rather than production. Is it to fuel research? Sorry for the questions, but I'm an idiot here and need to understand our immediate goals.

 

[eotinb]

Could also use the "why" on our strat of maximizing commerce, rather than production. Is it to fuel research?

That was my understanding.

 

[gmaharriet]

Re-read Bede's earlier post. That must be what he meant by "We have to accumulate a bunch of beakers quickly." Sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake. *sigh*

With no additional input, I guess I'll go with Scout's suggestions, plus the ideas I posted above.

 

[Bede]

Always trust the scout when he makes a suggestion. It's when he says "I have an idea" that you need to check your weapons and your body armor.

As for trading check the relative values in CA2 and use Myst to acquire the most costly of the tech out there, then see what else you can get.

Only other suggestion I might make is swap TJville to a settler but use your own judgement.

 

[gmaharriet]

I'm on turn 6. I've followed Scout's suggestions so far, BUT the #&@$*& barbs! Decided to build another archer in TJ, rather than a rax, because we need some power NOW.

The barbs have just pillaged the roads to our next city site during the last IT . The settler in GOC is due next turn. Worker Norm is underneath the archer, Sally just finished improving her square (and we don't NEED anymore roads in TJ at the moment). I've done some barb practice since our last SG, but really don't know what to do atm. I could probably get one barb with the archer, but going after the other with the warrior would leave our new settler undefended if the warrior loses. Need advice.

 

[scoutsout]

Only other suggestion I might make is swap TJville to a settler but use your own judgement.

My thinking on the worker was to start improving the terrain around TJ'ville on the north side of the river, and have Sally improve terrain on the south side... to improve future city sites.

I think we may get something of an edge here by plopping settlers onto sites that already have a tile improved, as opposed to the more conventional approach of sending settlers out and following behind with workers much later...

That road that eotinb started on his turns cut at least two full turns off the research curve. In addition to the gpt we got by working the roaded riverside grassland, the city was founded the turn after the settler was built....

See how it works with our third city. The first citizen in that town ought to be able to work an irrigated an roaded plains tile. Norm can finish irrigating the tile he's on and irrigate the one that's already roaded....

 

[scoutsout]

...sorry for the double post...but my last post is meaningless after seeing how the situation unfolded for harriet...

Hey Bede... do you remember that "Aikido" move I did in Kyoto at the age rollover in your defiant game? Do you think that might have any use here? I think we'd only lose a few gold... whack the barb with the archer... move warrior to worker, let barb #2 raid the city (but be absorbed by it).

Whaddya think? Any validity in this situation?

 

[Bede]

@gmH,

Here is a radical notion: pull the worker and the archer back into town (safety in numbers) let the barbs die in an attack on the town. Then send the settler and archer to the north to settle on the forest by the water drool: on the bonus grass). I think the barbs are coming from there, no? That way we will seal off our corner and get rid of a pesky barb camp if it is up there.

The risk you face here is that one barb attacks the archer and wins (we lose a worker), and the second attacks the town and we lose the settler and get sacked. I don't mind one of those, though I prefer the sacking to anything, but both would really hurt.

 

[Bede]

Scout's notion is also a good one, but I would be concerned about losing the shields in the settler. Not knowing what movement is or is not available to us or the barbs right now is kinda tough to figure the best way to proceed.

 

[gmaharriet]

Here is a radical notion: pull the worker and the archer back into town (safety in numbers) let the barbs die in an attack on the town. Then send the settler and archer to the north to settle on the forest by the water ( on the bonus grass). I think the barbs are coming from there, no?

I like the idea of safety in numbers and both the archer and worker still have movement. I'd hate to lose both worker and settler myself. Not sure if there's a barb camp north...that IS where an earlier barb came from and that's WHY the archer is so far north, but the two new yokels came from the S/E, so there must be another camp that direction as well.

I'm going to post my turn log to date so you can see how it developed and the save if you want to take a closer look. I haven't traded yet...Myst took 1 extra turn due to unhappiness in TJville.

Pre-turn 2550bc - TJville unhappy, so bump lux up to 20%. Myst in 6. Hit enter.

IT - GOC archer -> settler

1. 2510bc - SW scout continues along Bab border, N scout to mountain, SE scount SW, archer goes to meet barb.

IT - Nada

2. 2470bc - Archer kills barb losing a hitpoint, N scout heads east, SW scout W and spots incense and more Bab borders, SE scout S along ocean and spots another cow.

IT - 2 more barb warriors come from south.

3. 2430bc - move Norm N for protection, move northern warrior and archer S to protect Norm, Sally completes irrigation and starts road, SE scout S along ocean, SW scout W and sees another incense inside Bab border.

IT - barbs continue north toward GOC

4. 2390bc - Norm starts road, SE warrior W, SW warrior W.

IT - barbs continue N toward GOC. TJville worker -> archer (really wanted to start rax, but we need barb protection sooner.)

5. 2350bc - fortify archer on Norm and fortify warrior in GOC. New worker named Jill and moves to road grass on river. SE scout W, SW scout NW to hill. Myst due in 1, lower sci to 10% and lux to 0 at +9.

IT - barbs pillage 2 roads E of GOC. Myst -> Polytheism in 42.

6. 2310bc -


Hmmm... Just rereading turnlog before posting it. The worker shows movement, but he's probably not through roading the tile. If I stop his work on roading, will he even have movement to go to GOC? Given the choice, I think the settler is far more important than the worker, but not sure how you guys feel about that.

 

[Bede]

Go ahead and move everybody back into the capitol. The worker can move and so can the archer.

I would hold onto Myst for at least one more turn. Then go ahead and see what you can get for it. Check CA2 and try for the more costly techs first.

 

[gmaharriet]

Thank you...will do. I hope it's ok if I move the settler north. I love Scout's suggested spot, but would like to do something about the southern barbs or have at least one more archer for protection in that direction.

 

[Bede]

The silks are important but even more important is closing off our end of the continent.

Be agressive in your trading with Mysticism, and get as much tech as you can, even if you have to sweeten the deal with a little cash.

 

[gmaharriet]

Turnlog continued:

6. 2310bc - Move Norm and archer to GOC. Move Sally to help Jill. SE scout S and runs into barb horseman. SW scout north and spots camp with 2 barb warriors 2 tiles away...I think he can run away, but SE scout maybe in big trouble.

IT - Barbs near GOC begin to move east, but notice once of the barbs in the camp near our SW scout leaves and heads east...he disappeared into the fog, so I can't tell if he's going for us or the Incas. The horseman and barbs near us are of the same tribe, but the S/W tribe is a different one.

7. 2270bc - hold setter, archer and worker for a turn in GOC in case barbs come back next turn. Move Sally to chop for granary. SE scout moves back N, SW scout runs S. TJville unhappy, have to move lux to 20%, leaving Poly in 49, so move sci to 10% for the time being. We need a lux badly.

Check trades. All 3 civs will will give us alpha and empty their treasuries,so since Pachacuti has the most, I deal with him getting 99g. Hittites will empty their treasury and give us masonry. Hammi decides Myst no longer has so much value any longer, so buy BW for Myst + 16g. I used CAII for making the trades, but MapStat shows that all 3 also have iron working.

IT - The Hittites start The Oracle.

8. 2230bc - SE scout is NOT attacked by the barb horse...move him N to forest silks.SW warrior E. The 2 barb warriors are fortified on the mountain and hill just E of GOC. Now, what to do with archer and settler? I'm not very religious, but have heard that God hates a coward, so move archer, settler and Norm N to woods...Norm to chop for the granary. Crosses fingers and hits enter.

IT - barbs move directly N

9. 2190bc - start forest chop. Move settler and archer N to mountain. Send Jill to road BG N of TJville. Fortify SE scout. SW scout E.

IT - both barbs move back to mountain E of GOC. 2 Bab warriors heading for Tiwanaku...wonder what they're up to.

10. 2150bc - Move settler and archer into position to settle. SW scout NE.

Notes:

I think I was fairly aggressive on my trading. Only thing I wasn't sure of was the choice on the last trade between BW and Wheel. Hammi would have traded it for Myst + 60g, but our UU has 2 moves and needs iron, so BW seemed more important as well as less expensive.

Very frustrating waltzing with the barbs, but didn't lose any units, so I guess that's a plus. (Thank you for the help with that!!!) Watch out for the 2 barbs fortified just outside of GOC. Settler is in place, surrounded by many BG's.

SE warrior is fortified because he couldn't go farther south without running smack into barbs. Maybe I should have sent him E. Any tips on better handling of barbs (including the best way to practice on them in SP games) would be GREATLY appreciated. I have all next week off on vacation, so lots of time to work on improvement in an area or two.

I took another pic of the Hittites starting The Oracle...then lost it completely when I tried to crop it. Maybe that's something to practice next week. Pic of our Empire to follow.

Edited to add: The other barb camp is located in the far west on the hill 2 tiles NE of the mountain next to the ocean.

 

[gmaharriet]

Our Empire

 

[Bede]

Bede - got it and will start some ship building
General M - will take his ten on Saturday if I can keep C-4 in its box
eotinb - got us well started
scoutsout - found some silks for Bede's jammies
gmaharriet - survived the barb threat

 

[TimBentley]

SE warrior is fortified because he couldn't go farther south without running smack into barbs. Maybe I should have sent him E. Any tips on better handling of barbs (including the best way to practice on them in SP games) would be GREATLY appreciated. I have all next week off on vacation, so lots of time to work on improvement in an area or two.

lurker's comment: An explanation of how the barbs work would be helpful, I suppose. They'll first go for any undefended cities, workers, settlers, or scouts they can reach. They'll then move towards any units on their NW-SE axis (as long as they're within 12 tiles). They may not go straight (for example, they could go N, NW, or W towards a unit to the NW), but they'll go for the best defensive terrain if they have a choice. Otherwise, they'll move randomly or fortify in place (they move about half the time in this case IIRC).

 

[gmaharriet]

lurker's comment: An explanation of how the barbs work would be helpful, I suppose. They'll first go for any undefended cities, workers, settlers, or scouts they can reach. They'll then move towards any units on their NW-SE axis (as long as they're within 12 tiles). They may not go straight (for example, they could go N, NW, or W towards a unit to the NW), but they'll go for the best defensive terrain if they have a choice. Otherwise, they'll move randomly or fortify in place (they move about half the time in this case IIRC).

Thanks, Tim! That's a good start on understanding what to expect. I have AINoPatrol=0 in my .ini file (cause Bede said so ) and it seems like I read somewhere that it makes them more random in their movements. I just find them so frustrating to deal with when I don't have strong enough defenders and ya can't negotiate with them.

I guess what I'll do is start a personal game with raging barbs and just play until after the "change of age", then abandon it and start another and another until I get a good sense of how to handle them. Starting with Warrior Code would probably help, but then I wouldn't learn how to manage without.

 

[Bahzell]

lurker's comment: Only one way to negotiate with Barbs, and thats with the liberal use of the weapon your soldiers are using. I'll be watching this one Bede, maybe I can learn something.