TGOMTG Conquest Class Challenge (C3C)

[Methos]

Out of curiosity I decided to do the numbers on Agade. Unfortunately my original intention was to figure out Ur as well but got lazy.

Anyway, here's what I figure Agade will look like at size 12.

Agade: (Hills x4, Mountain, Wheat, Plains w/river x5, flood plain). So as not to waste food I suggest mining two of the plains w/river tiles and irrigating the other three. This brings us to a total of 24 food, 20 shields, and 43 gold.

 

[Bede]

Methos has the numbers right.

I always use two factors in siting the FP, potential productivity and timing. Since it looks like we have to hand build (no MGL hanging around) it has to go in the most potentially productive spot which can build it within a reasonable time as the benefit goes to the entire realm, not just the FP location. Ur will just take too long and it takes less time to mine a plains than it does to road and mine a mountain.

 

[soul_warrior]

550ad-650ad

preturn - nochange. hopefully it will end up as a builder set, as we need the infra.
the plan is build up the north while irrigating the south.
water will be second priority though, as we need more work in the north.

1-Umman settler > worker, Erech settler > worker, Isin settler > worker, Atlanta aqua > Horse,
Miami was on a worker build, while having just the taxman? change to treb so we wont lose the shields.
Babylon has Chivalry and is building KT.
Babs also dropped a mighty SoD on us. my guess is it wont last much as a builder set.
stack composition - 1 MDI, 1 pike, 2 spears, 2 swords, 1 bowman.
start moving the horses back south in antisipation.
the settlers - will build in the north 2 fisheries, 1 is heading south.

2- i was happily mistaken about that stack. they are after greece.
trading - i can grab Invention off korea for Mono and give it to babylon for chivalry. as we dont have iron dont think it will be good to give it to the babs.
will buy it though to give us uber-bowmen. they want Mono + 580g (or 20gpt+225g=625g)
bloody monopoly prices. wait a bit, as i can always buy it.
reminid myself that we need bows and spears - not horses, so i change all horse builds (all ONE of it ) to a spear.

3- Phili aqua > spear,
well, invention is no longer a monopoly. i get it from korea along with 8g (which is all his gold)
build Buffalo and St Louis > harbour,
spend about 750g on rushing courts and markets.

4- Bismark demands Dyes. no go. and he backs off.
Ur court > market, WDC market > LB, Lagash court > aqua, NY market > LB, Atlanta spear > market,
upgrade 4 archers (60g*4=360)

IBT - themopalae falls to babylon. the greeks are on the verge of becoming extinct.

5- Phili spear > LB, Chicago market > LB,
build detroit > temple,

6- Isin worker > treb,

7- babylon wants to walk around our lands with a roaming pike. they have till next turn to get the hell out.
more movement, some workers too.

8- WDC LB > LB, NY LB > LB, Boston market > worker,
and were at war. with Babylon.
lose a horse to a sword. kill a pike with an LB.

9- our galley is down to 1 hp due to barb galleys.
and the greeks are really fighting now
Boston worker > spear, Phili LB > LB, Ghulman worker > temple,
kill 2 bows, damage a sword. lose a horse and a LB. wait till i have a proper stack before starting the biz.

IBT our brave SPEAR 3 shall be remembered forever. he kills 2 MDI's and a sword, dying only to the 2nd sword.

10- Chicago LB > spear,

notes

1 spear, 4 trebs, 5 horses and 7 LBs are awaiting your commands in SanFran.
the opposing team has:3 bowmen, 1 spear and 2 swords (that i can see) most are wounded.

the FP is in 8. were making 138gpt now, due to the markets.
check the builds. as we are in a war footing now, maybe we should change some.
nothing much changed in the map, so here;s a pic of the warfront.

ps- ignore the date on the save. its 650ad, not 750

 

[Methos]

Miami was on a worker build, while having just the taxman? change to treb so we wont lose the shields.

From what I understand Bede had set that to worker so the city self-destructed. I believe the plan was move it to a better location.

Miami was built to support the Sumerian war if it had gone badly, it is now set to self destruct so we can site a better town in that area.

@namliaM: Lol! You notice how war always gets dropped either just before your turn or on your turn? That's good anyway, since your very good at warmongering. Kick a little Bab butt for us!

 

[namliaM]

Hmz, In my oppiun we could have stalled a little on the invention deal to build some more Archers to upgrade

@namliaM: Lol! You notice how war always gets dropped either just before your turn or on your turn? That's good anyway, since your very good at warmongering. Kick a little Bab butt for us!

Thank you for the complement, but I used to be a pure builder. Just starting to war monger. This is good tho, lets me practice more. still struggling to find the balance between building/settling/warring

Must admit I was hoping for a quick peacefull turnset. Now I have to document an entire war, I dont much feel for beeing on the defensive
Good thing is, the trebs can role into Babylon and if we take a bit of Babylon they can role right into Persia.

I notice we sailed around the world...

What are our plans for the future?
1) Take a bit of babylon,
2) Take a bit of persia,
3) Help Greece survive,
Germany is "small" enough?

What are the plans for the "other" continent?

My plans: Do some pointy stick research on Babylon

 

[soul_warrior]

sorry about miami. my bad.

namliaM, you said it. babylon (till we get iron and some techs) > persia.
we need greece alive for now. and i guess when you start pressing babylon, some pressure will be off of them.

 

[Bede]

Nice pile o' Death Dealing Doomsters in San Francisco.

I've was wondering how long the peace would last with the Mailguy waiting in the wings.

The grumpster's tactical manual says skirmish with the Babs first. Let them come into range of the trebs, throw stones, then hit them with the archers if the stack is bugger than a singleton till only one is left, then hit with the last one with a horseman and retreat into San Francisco. A couple turns of that and there won't be much left of the Babylonian expedtion. Then make a move on Thermopalye, when there is a follow on force in place in San Francisco. The tempo should be that of the surf banging on the shore, with sucessive waves moving south from San Francisco.

We will be comparatively weak on defense with only spears and LB's and horses so don't take more than you can hold.

War Weariness will get to be a problem as the peace treaty with the Babs didn't last twenty turns. And losing a captured town is a big boost to the WW factor.

Perhaps an alliance with Persia? Need them on our side and not in our faces. at our back, not on it.

Is everyone familiar with short rushing techniques for military?

 

[Methos]

Is everyone familiar with short rushing techniques for military?

Not really. I believe you switch production ot something that has less than 19 shields to complete and rush it. Than immediately switch back to what you really want. Or if needed, do the switch again with something else that needs less than 19 shields.

Is this what you are talking about? I'm not entirely sure if I am correct on this, or if I'm even talking about the same thing. In other words, I very rarely have ever done this.

 

[Bede]

The short version of short rushing:

You want to train a longbow (40sp) in less than four turns in a town netting 10spt. The sequence goes like this:

start - no shields in the box
T1) 10 shields in the box, cash rush something worth 30sp (a settler), it will cost 80g, the remaining 20 shields x 4g per shield. Switch back to LB
T2) production adds another 10 for the 40.
T3) longbow ready to go kill something.

You saved a turn of production time at a cost of 80g. This will let you manage the citizens for maximum food and commerce rather than shield production and minimizes production overruns.

 

[Methos]

How's it going namliaM?

 

[namliaM]

I had to play in several small sessions (2 turns per session or so) that is why it took a bit longer than expected.

Seeing as Babylon has been at war with the greeks I was hoping to find them lacking in military or disorganised. I both are acurate....
Turnlog:
Pre-Turn:
Change Miami to settler.
Wake Trebs & Elite Horses in Kish => Goto SF
Wake Elite Archer (near NY) => Goto SF
Elits can/will bring MGLs (I hope)

IT: The Bab units near SF retreat into the Black mist
A pikeman shows W of Zohak and a Knight! N-NW of Zohak
Umma Worker> Harbor
Boston Spear>Bowman
Erech Worker> Aqueduct
Arrakis Aque> Bowman

1@660 Wake 2 Vet horses in NY NW-NW-NW (in case the Knight heads for Ghulman)
Bring horse from WDC to Mountain E-E-SE of WDC
Bowman from WDC SE-SE-Wait
Spear From Boston to WDC
Disband conscript warrior in Boston, Bowman now in 3 instead of 4 turns (only 1 shield loss instead of 12)
Move Elite horse near Umma to NY
Worker from Umma, connect stLouis
Trebs out off SF do 1 hp damage to Spear
4/4 Bow attack 2/3 spear, kill spear, lose 1hp
Wake spear in Arrakis, Move spear& bow to SF
Wake spear in sumer, move to NY
Sumer is stuck> Short rush the Courthouse (192g), switch to Aque in 7

IT: 3/3 Bab bowman comes and attacks our bowmen, Shot hits, we succesfully defend
Next bowman (2/3) standing next to ours allready, shot misses, and our bowman is killed.
Units return from mist, it appears I misjudged where the went...
Bab Pike and Knight both move NW
WDC Bowman> Spear
NY Bowman> Bowman

2@670
4/4 Bowman (near WDC) E attack 4/4 Pike in Jungle, Take 1 hp (bowman dies)
4/4 Horse (near WDC) SW attack 3/4 Pike in Jungle, Lose 3 hp, flee => Goto WDC
4/4 Bowman (out of WDC) SW-SW-E attack 3/4 Pike in Jungle, Lose 3 hp (kill pike)
Move SoD S
Bowman (4/4) out of NY SE-SE, Attack 4/4 Knight, lOSE 1 HP Knight Flees (darn)
Move horses from SE of Atlanta to cover bowman
4/4 Horseman (from SoD) attack E 4/4 Bowman, Shot miss, Take 2 hp, get killed
4/4 Horseman (from SoD) attack E 3/3 Bowman, Shot hits, get killed
4/4 Horseman (from SoD) attack E 3/3 Bowman, no more shot, Lose no hp, kill Bowman
4/4 Horseman (from SoD) attack E 3/3 Sword, Lose 1 hp, Kill sword
A Spear, longbow and 3 elite horses arrive at SF, move to join SoD
Wake spear from philly, move to Arrakis
Wake spear from Arrakis, move to SF

I reallise we cannot handle both Babs & Persia, Persia & Babs have RoP. Persia (Furious) want 396g for the MA...
I think about this long and hard. Can we afford to take it? Can we afford to be at war with the Persians as well?
The price is high for the MA, but the price is even higher if we are up against Babs & Persia. Take the MA.

Is our rep shot? I cannot make a single GPT except on the MA, 10gpt +214g

IT: Germany & Babylon sign MA against persia
1/4 Knight attacks our 4/4 Horse, No ?!?!?!? defensive shot?, and promotes him to Elite
Phily Longbow> Spear
Chicago Spear>Spear
Cool, Germans go to war with Persia... They start Sisine Chapel ?!
The bab stack moves NW, leaving the 1/3 bowman

3@680
5/5 Horse Attack stack 3/3 Spear, Shot hits, lose 2 more HP, kill spear=> Move into SF to heal next turn
5/5 Horse Attack stack 3/3 Bowman, No shot, Lose 1 HP, Kill Bowman=> Move into SF to heal next turn
5/5 Horse Attack stack 3/3 MedInv, lose 3 hp, kill MidInv
Longbow Heal on the spot
SPear (NE of SF) move to cover horse
Arrakis spear fortify
Chicago spear goto SF
Rush spear in WDC (40g) > Change to Longbow
Change Arrakis to Spear, MM to give spear in 2 with no Shield waste=> Gain 1 f/c
SoD S, next to Thermopylae (size 4, no walls) defended by spear
Horses from SoD Hold
5/5 Horse from SF move to SoD
Move new elite horse to SF
Excedentaly start a fortress with a slave, cancel that
Rush spear (28g in NY) switch to horse
Rush Lib in Atlanta, switch back to Market
Elite horse from NY goto SF

IT: 4/4 Knight Comes out of the mist, Attacks SoD, Kills spear
5/5 Sword from Thermopylae, loses 4 hp, but kills our spear
NY Horse> Horse (NY Is on net 15 spt, horses in 2)
Boston Longbow> Spear, MM Boston to be at net 10spt gain commerce at while not wasting shields
Longbow to SF, spear to SF

4@690
4/4 Horse Attack 2/4 Knight, Lose 0 hp, Kill knight (Spot another knight)
5/5 Horse attack 3/3 Spear (in Therm), Take 0hp, Lose 4 Hp flee
3/4 Horse attack 3/3 Spear (in Therm), Take 2hp, get killed
4/4 Longbow attack 3/3 Spear (in therm), Lose 2 hp, Kill spear, Promote
4/4 Longbow attack 1/3 Spear (in therm), Lose 3 hp, Kill spear
4/4 Longbow attack 1/5 Sword (in therm), Lose 1 hp, Take Therm (1 Resistor)
Trebs from SoD, S and Bomb Knight, First 3 all hit target, forth into Therm
4/4 Longbow attack 1/4 Knight, our Bowman gets killed
4/4 Longbow attack 1/4 Knight, lose 0hp, kill Knight
MM Ur (maxed at 12) to get as much shields as possible

IT: WDC Longbow> Spear
Philly spear>Spear
Arrakis Spear> Spear

5@700
Nothing much, move all units into Therm to prevent flip and Wait for some defensive units to not get killed to easy by a few knights

IT: NY Horse> Horse
Boston Spear> Spear
Isin Treb> Aque
Atlanta Market> Longbow
Chicago Spear> Aque

6@710
Change Ghulaman to Courthouse
MM Agade to the Hill from the Flood Plain ( no more food +, at 12 pop)
Rush WDC to Spear> Longbow
Rush Phily to Spear> Longbow
Send horse from NY to Houston (to help in case of sea invation)
With Spears near and on the way our SoD sets off S toward Eridu

IT: Bab Knight closses on our SoD
German Stack near SF
Ur Market> Heroic Epic
Agade FP > Market

7@720
Trebs bomb 4/4 knight down to 1/4
5/5 Horseman attacks 1/4 knight, Losses 3 hp, Kills Knight
SoD SE towards Eridu
Rush Spear in Boston> Longbow
MM Everywhere to check shields and such after the FP build
Ur is now a whopping net 12 shield producer
Agade produces net 20 spt
MM Boston to get back -down- to 10 spt
Rush Spear in Atlanta> Longbow
Rush Spear in Chicago> Aque
A reg spear?! Where did that come from? Ah Arrakis have no Barracks Switch Arrakis to Marketplace
Rush Harbor in Kish> Courthouse (now in 5)

IT: 4/4 Longbow shows up W of wounded Horse (from the Knight kill)
German stack moves SE, 2nd Stack shows up
WDC Longbow> Spear
Sumer Aque> Courthouse
Lagash WLTKD Aque> Market, MM Lagash to grow again take 2 hill to sea
NY Horse> Courthouse
Phily Longbow> Spear

8@730
2/5 horse into Therm.
3 Trebs Bomb the 4/4 Longbow down to 1/4
5/5 Horse attacks 1/4 longbow, loses 3 hp, kills longbow

IT:
Bab Longbow NW of wounded Horse
3rd german 'stack' shows
Boston Longbow> Spear


9@740
Phily rush Spear> Longbow
WDC Rush Spear> Longbow
Lagash Rush Lib> market
Wounded horse into Therm

I moved a couple more units around after below screny, but you get the general idea.
I left it at 9 turns becuase I took 11 last time around.

The save

 

[Methos]

So what's the best plan right now? Do we head towards Eridu? Or Ellip since it doesn't have the city defense bonus? What about Athens as it has wines?

Any suggestions?

 

[Methos]

Just looking at our trade options and had some ideas I'd like to bounce off of everyone. Here's a pic:

Currently Korea and the Ottomans haven't met the rest of our continent so why don't we buy either Chivalry or Theology off our Persia or Germany and than trade it to Korea for Gunpowder?

Germany was willing to give us Chivalry for Spices, Dyes, and 500 gold. Surely we can make most of it back for Gunpowder? What does everyone else think?

Edit: I got it but will wait and play it tonight.

 

[namliaM]

So what's the best plan right now? Do we head towards Eridu? Or Ellip since it doesn't have the city defense bonus? What about Athens as it has wines?

Any suggestions?

I was thinking to move along the N of Babylon to get at the Iron. However I dont think the SE Iron is hocked up. and it gives us a big front line...

Also babylon may be engaging persia there. We might run into babs main force.
Take Eridu then athens? Them wines do seem tempting...

 

[Methos]

However I dont think the SE Iron is hocked up.

Nope, in fact there are two Iron's that are not controlled by anyone. The only controlled Iron is under Ashur.

I agree the wines are very tempting and they would give us four lux's. I would definitely like the Iron but I'm afraid that if we head straight for the unclaimed Iron we'll end up losing it to a culture flip. It might be wise to attempt to take as many Bab cities as possible as we head towards Ashur.

I'm not really sure.

 

[namliaM]

Currently Korea and the Ottomans haven't met the rest of our continent so why don't we buy either Chivalry or Theology off our Persia or Germany and than trade it to Korea for Gunpowder?

Germany was willing to give us Chivalry for Spices, Dyes, and 500 gold. Surely we can make most of it back for Gunpowder? What does everyone else think?

I think Persia might give us a better deal than Germany, Persia is in a MA with us.

We dont much need the dead end tech Chivalry, Gun powder is nice tho. But try to do it with Theology, we will not be able to use Knights for a long long time. Not havin Iron and all....

On the other hand the most gold out there is in the hands of persia (because I bought them into this war ) and they allready have Gun powder....

 

[soul_warrior]

get the iron.
go north?

very nice turns namliaM

the deals seem very nice.
get Chiv, sell to korea for guns, sell back home for theology and all the cash they have?

 

[namliaM]

Both chivalry & Theology give wonders, Guns does not ....
Chiv = dead end, Unit is unbuildable at the moment, dont need it I guess.
Theology = dont need it (bad enough) it does nothing for us. And is not very brokerable IMO
Guns = Defensive unit, and see Saltpeter!? Very usefull, but I would wait for it a bit.

 

[Methos]

As I recall Chiv was cheaper than Theo but like you said it's a dead end. Theo opens up another branch even though the AI typically doesn't follow that one.

Guns would be nice and we can buy it outright for gold and gpt from Persia but I'd rather swap it with other techs to make things cheaper.

 

[namliaM]

Yeah sure, but then why not go the other way around?
Buy Guns, trade around for Theo and possibly Chiv.

Prices may be a bit steep tho and we cannot swing back around to get our money back from the Persians as they allready know it all ....

And theo eventually leads to banking which we DO need.... More $$$