TGOMTG Conquest Class Challenge (C3C)

Nice eventful action. :thumbsup:

Did we manage to separate the Persians from their saltpeter (that's bat guano to sw)?

If we didn't the war may have ended too soon.

Astro is good as it allows us to sell luxuries overseas since we will be losing our local buyers.

@Methos: do what ever you need to get Banking. Prices go up dramatically again at the end of the MA, so the more cash in the kitty, the better.

Now's about the time to start honing the lockpicks.
 
Bede said:
Did we manage to separate the Persians from their saltpeter (that's bat guano to sw)?

Negative, they still have both saltpeter and iron as noted below. Both are located in the extreme south of their territory.

Perisan_Resources.JPG
 
well, looking on the bright side...
they have only 1 source each (bat guano and grey rocks)
a nice surprise stack can easily dislodge it from thier grasp, not allowing any new unit to be built.
we will only need to fend off the first wave and then waltz in.
 
Some suggestions:

Time to use the entertainment budget, and swap the cathdral builds to boats or military. Use libraries as cultural jumpstarts instead of cathedrals, they cost less to maintain and have a bigger cultural impact, and we have the free cash flow to support more entertainment.

There is a lot of citizen management to keep you busy. Look for shield combinations that get multiples of ten. Other combinations to look for are 18 (knights) 14(knights), and 12 (muskets). If a town can't make either a multiple of ten or one of those above build something else than troops.

Any town that is long food when all the citizens are working in the fields needs more mines dug.

There is a lot of trimming to do to meet those guidlines. Use the city tab of CAII or somehting like it to calculate garrison requirements in border towns or towns with any alien population.

This all sounds tedious but it is, to me anyway, some of the best part of the game. I really do enjoy fiddling with terrain improvements and field assignments to get ot optimum output.
 
I dont much like the idea of libs, we are not gonna use them It may save some shields and save on 2gpt but its wasting 1 gpt and wasting the Shields invested, because its not going to be used at all... IMO that is ....

I thought about cleaning the clock on the Iron and Salt, but did not like the idea of having 2 very isolated city's out there, waiting to be attacked... by any civ out there....


Did we manage to separate the Persians from their saltpeter (that's bat guano to sw)?
The what where SW? SE! The persians source for both Salt & Iron is in the SE. bat guano? Whats that?

Are we allready considering antoher war on Persia eventho we have something like 19 turns left on the peace treaty?

I still have not seen anything covering my ideas for the future in post 288, that is here
 
namliaM said:
I dont much like the idea of libs, we are not gonna use them It may save some shields and save on 2gpt but its wasting 1 gpt and wasting the Shields invested, because its not going to be used at all... IMO that is ....
i agree. maybe temples should be used? we get culture and happiness?

namliaM said:
I thought about cleaning the clock on the Iron and Salt, but did not like the idea of having 2 very isolated city's out there, waiting to be attacked... by any civ out there....
again, i agree with you. but better to have vulnarable cities out there, than not having the resources and having to take it later. just pack em full of defenders and bambadiers and we shopuld be ok.

namliaM said:
The what where SW? SE! The persians source for both Salt & Iron is in the SE. bat guano? Whats that?

well, this is a refence to my recent promotion to Corporal of the Idiot Academy.
its NOT South West, but Soul Warrior :D
in short, gunpowder is made out of Coal, Sulfur and Nitrate. the first 2 are commonly found but Nitrates are a very rare mineral on its own.
BUT IT IS FOUND IN GUANO.
what is GUANO? well, to put it politely (and moderator safe), its what comes out after a good meal by BIRDS. the human, cow, etc stuff is a great fertilizer but not so rich in nitrate.
so in olden times they collected this stuff from bird colonies and caves where bats lived (think 10000 bats in one cave. then think about the amount of guano you can collect ;))

i was also refering back then to that most funny movie - pet detective 2 (jim carrey) where he got a mission to save an albino bat from a cave in africa.
 
Ah bat guano. I did a lot of spelunking when I was younger and man does that stuff pile high!

Getting ready to finish my turnset, be back later.

namliaM said:
Are we allready considering antoher war on Persia eventho we have something like 19 turns left on the peace treaty?

With this group I consider us as always preparing for war with somebody! :D

namliaM said:
But we have both Iron AND Guano...

True but if we take those resources from Persia they won't have any at all! I don't believe it matters that we already have them but more on that they won't have them.
 
Pre-Turn: I assign two citizens in Zohak so that both the city will starve one pop and still create the worker, this will cause the city to loose two citizens in one turn. Umma can’t grow until the Aqueduct is finished so I adjust citizens so we’re not wasting food.

IT: Persia demands we move our troops, automatic kick out. Babylon is now a Democracy.

Isin Courthouse>Marketplace. Zohak Worker>Marketplace. Interestingly Zohak did not lose two pop points as I expected. Apparently I’m wrong.

1@1160 AD: Denver founded, begins Temple. Cincinnati founded, begins Worker. Kissura switches to Aqueduct as its not growing and wasting food. Hurry Marketplace in Kish. Switch Ghulaman to Marketplace, finish in one turn.

IT: Kish Marketplace>Cathedral. Agade Knight>Knight. Boston Settle>Cathedral. Philly Cathedral>Colosseum. Arrakis City Cathedral>Colosseum. Ghulaman Marketplace>Colosseum. Detroit Courthouse>Cathedral. Zohak starves.

2@1170 AD: Dallas founded.

IT: Korean Musket and Settler land SE of Cincinnati.

NY ?>Musketman. Isin Marketplace>Caravel. SF Marketplace>Caravel. New Orleans Aqueduct>Temple.

3@1180 AD: Zzzz

IT: The Korean city of Oijongbu is founded on our continent. Babylonian’s are building Shakespeare’s Theater.

Atlanta Knight>Knight. Chicago Knight>Knight

5@1200 AD: Memphis founded

IT: Sidon Marketplace>Temple. Agade Knight>Knight. Philly Caravel>Caravel. Detroit Barracks>Knight.

6@1210 AD: LA founded.

Babylon: We get Metallurgy; we give World Map and 1678 gold
Korea: We get Banking, 4 gold, and World Map; we give Metallurgy
Ottomans: We get Navigation, World Map, and 8 gold; we give Chemistry

I believe I really screwed that up. I was hoping to sell some lux resources back to Babylon for our gold but it didn’t work. I shouldn’t have sold them the WM in the first deal, that might have allowed getting some of our gold back.

IT: Germany has built the Sistine Chapel.

WDC Cathedral>Bank. NY Musketman>Bank. Boston Musketman>Musketman. Arrakis City Caravel>Caravel.

7@1220 AD: Zzzz

IT: Kish riots (sorry, didn’t scroll down on the alerts screen apparently). Babs are building Shakespeare’s Theater. Interesting, next pop-up was Babs have built Shakespeare’s Theater. Persian’s are building Smith’s. Economics available.

Ur Knight>Knight. Buffalo Courthouse>Temple.

8@1230 AD: Zzzz

IT: Order restored in Kish. Babs are building Smith’s.

Kish Caravel>Caravel. Ellipi Courthouse>Temple. Erech Marketplace>Courthouse. Eridu Courthouse>Library.

9@1240 AD: Zzzz

IT: Umma Aqueduct>Courthouse. Agade Knight>Knight. Dallas Worker>Temple. Philly Caravel>Caravel. Isin Caravel>Caravel. Atlanta Knight>Knight. Chicago Knight>Knight.

10@1250 AD: Zzzz

All military units I build never left that city as I didn’t have a clue where to send them. All caravels that were built went one tile out and fortified outside the city.
 
namliaM said:
I suggested something a while ago regarding the Greeks.... but did not get an answer....

How about razing a few babylonian citys due SW of Greece and Allow the greeks to Settle it? This would grow back the Mighty Greek empire and make them a contender again for techs and trading.

We could do the same to the Germans, trim them back to their mountain island and have Greeks settle the left open land.

Trimming the Germans would allow the Greeks (atleast) 4 more citys and allow them a connected empire (again)
+ We have not been at war with Germany for a loooooong while

You all need to look at how tech costs are calculated. Beaker costs are a function of how many nations there are on the map and the number of nations that know the tech being researched. Leaving a backward nation (Greece) still on the planet raises the beaker cost and therefore the price for purchase. Eliminating a nation lowers the cost of new techs for all which is very useful to us who ae buying them. On the other hand if the Greeks were not so far behind it would make sense to give them a boost.

So,

The troops will be marching on Greece. :evil:

Where the trading went wrong is not following up on map trades. Not sure about what you mean about the lux deals with Babylon :confused:

First thing I am going to do is trade a bunch of maps around. Then gather the forces for the Greek expedition.

This is going to be fun.....
 
Bede is up, waiting for comment before moving on Greece.
 
First thing I do is get most of the money in the world in our treasury by trading maps. Then get another 100 by trading luxuries to Babylon.

Then shift some garrisons around and bring the forces from the core towards Greece.

Babylon knows about frictionless planes and vector forces but won't give up Physics for everything we own. I had thought to use it to get Military Tradition but no deals are there and it's not worth it anyway.

And in 1250 the first Babylonian cavalryman appears at Ellipi.

In 1260 with the storm gathered at the Greek borders, declare and move in.

Thermopolyae falls, no casualties and we move the gathered force on to Athens. And the first Persian cavlryman appears at Baltimore. And German longbows appear in the mountains at Corinth.

Kish is a real problem child because even after rearranging the citizens it riots on me.

It takes a knight to capture Cortinth in 1270 and two more to capture Athens.

The Greeks have put a settler on a boat and built Herakleai on the German island.

Trade some spices plus 340g to Korea for incense and it is a good thing I did as the Germans declare war.

The garrison at Corinth holds off the German longbows but three knights are lost. Since Germany was on the list next and the people are currently celebrating WLKTP everywhere at 10% lux, I call on Xerxes to fight the Germans and pay him 16gpt and give him an RoP so he can get there.

In 1275 march on Sparta, sink a German galley with a waiting caravel and send knights to the north country. I withdraw the surviving knight from Corinth then postion others with following muskets to retake the town and blunt the German attacks when their longbows try to defend the town. There is a single Greek archer wandering around between Corinth and Thermopylae.

The Germans take the bait and put their last healthy longbows into Corinth and in 1280 it is back in our hands and they lose three bows, we take no casualties. Attack the wandering Greek and Jackson appears who forms an army in Thermopylae. We can build the Pentagon now but we need troops.

In 1285 Sparta is ours, no casualties. Sink a German galley off Umma.

Load two knights in a caravel at St Louis in 1290 and sail to the island to the NW.

In 1295 land at Herakleia and start the cannon, longbows and knights through the Persian enclave on the German peninsula. My target is Knossos but we will have to capture Heidelberg to get there.

In 1300 put the armies and cannon at the gates of Heidelberg and burn Herakleia netting one more slave and a couple of gold pieces.

Persia wants many monies for Physics (2300g) but I can try a safe steal for 1900. Do it but fail, Beedo escapes, however X-man is not pleased. We are currently earning enough money to try a safe or careful steal every 4 to 6 turns. Korea or Ottomans are the preferred targets as war with either of them will not be a problem, but Persia or Babylon are cheaper (they are closer).

Why steal instead of buy?

1) Theft is cheaper, though it carries the risk of war
2) Theft does not put money in the hands of the other nations.
3) Politically it makes sense as we will want the other continent at war at some point, so stealing from overseas will bring us that opportunity if the theft fails and the victim declares. Then just ally with the neighbor and their development will slow down.

I made the first attempt with Persia because the risks of a Persian declaration are low, and I didn't think we had enough force in the SE to deal with the Korean colony.

As the native workers finish their jobs I have been shifting them north as the towns there are food rich and could use some mines dug. I have also been trying to build gangs of slaves to attack the marsh and jungle more efficiently. Unlike forestry it makes sense to road first as you can then bring other workers to bear on the jungle for a faster finish, then move on the next. It takes eighteen slaves to road a jungle in one, and another twenty to chop it down (total 48).

There is a settler on the road between Kansas City and Sparta, move her to the knight marking the jungle to the north and build another town.

The 20spt towns are building Maces and the other high producers are bulding knights.

Tactically I would capture Heidelberg as the way to Knossos, capture Knossos then concentrate our forces to clear the peninsula north of Heidelberg, letting the Persians have their way with the rest of Germany. There are 15 turns to go on the alliance against Germany and there is a RoP (negotiated separately) so that we could use the Persian roads at Cologne. That means there are a lot of Persians inside our borders.

TGOMTG_1300.jpg



soul - Finish the Greeks. Spar with the Germans.
namliaM - got a really nice finish in COTM12
Methos - set up first and last Greek war
Bede - revenged Thermopylae
 
This time we are going all the way and destroying the Greeks, correct? That is the way I understand it from the discussion on beaker costs and flip risk.

Another question, since we declared on Greece we are accumulating war weariness. Germany declared on us so we are getting war happiness. How are both situations affected once Greece is destroyed? Will the war weariness go away since the Greek war is over even though we are still at war with the Germans? From my understanding this is correct since war weariness is calculated seperately with each civ.
 
@Methos, you are correct.

The length of the war and the amount of time spent in enemy territory and the losses taken (troops and cities) seem to me to be the bigger factors in accumulating war weariness. So if I can I do my best to 1) keep troops in friendly or neutral territory; 2) minimize losses; 3) if the end of a campaign requires longer reaches across enemy territory I crank up the entertainment budget as a prophylactic.
 
Back
Top Bottom