That Deity Willem Map

I do think the mechanic is interesting, but I have yet to see any powerful use of it in my own games. What units are you usually moving with this method? Spies/corpex/missionaries?

Settlers, workers and particularly executives. Missionaries may be the case too, when you need to spread ASAP. And I quite agree with Sampsa that constant flow of small reinforcements is better than a large one once in a while.

There is something very odd about Shaka's behavior in this game.
Spoiler :
Since when he is such a cottage-lover?
 
@Kaitzilla uhhh...images aren't showing up for me? :(

Is anyone else experience this problem?

I'm using Smugmug which is usually very reliable and making the pictures as low data as possible with 600KB .jpg's
Usually just have to wait a bit for the internet to stabilize.

Regarding galleon chaining, yes it's impressive to move units instantly, the price you pay for this speed is capacity. And if you only benefit from and count the unit movements in one direciton, you can sustinable only move 2 units per turn per chain.
The capacity of any individual galleon is still only to move 4 units 4 tiles per turn.

I do think the mechanic is interesting, but I have yet to see any powerful use of it in my own games. What units are you usually moving with this method? Spies/corpex/missionaries?
If this method is used to ship an invasion force, I must miss some detail, because I see no clear benefit of chaining compared to shipping in bulk.
For siphoning in reinforcements after the initial landing I do see the point though.

Yes, that is exactly right. :)

For the initial invasion, a massed fleet delivering a huge army is best.


Then the Galleons telescope back to the homeland forming a chain and start chaining across reinforcements every single turn.
Why do it this way?

The brand new 10xp units from the Heroic Epic city reach the front line city in 1 turn.
This is really useful when you unlock a brand new military tech!
On Deity the military windows of opportunity between the AI getting Engineering/Rifling/Infantry is very small, so the ability to move top tier units across the map in 1 turn is amazing.

A 2nd benefit to chaining is that your reinforcements can't be sunk on the ocean.

They get on the boat, zip across the ocean, and are unloaded in a city without ever facing naval danger.
This is a big help on Deity where the player rarely has naval superiority.


Most of the time having the Galleons stationed every 2 tiles is wasteful. :hmm:
Reinforcements are rarely so plentiful to need that kind of shipping capacity.

Better is to station the Galleons every 4 tiles and see-saw back and forth delivering units every 2 turns.
Half the ships and half the shipping capacity as Galleons_every_two_tiles.

With Galleons every 4 tiles, a new galleon can be added to the beginning of the chain at the homeland and for 1 turn the chain doubles its carrying capacity.
Then the extra galleon that appears at the tail end of the chain the following turn can mass for coastal adventures on the enemy continent, or sail back home for increased chain capacity.

I agree that for the initial attack chaining is not that useful, so mostly the use for me is reinforcements. Say you have a galleon chain ready to move across 15 tile ocean. Assuming circumnavigation bonus they move 5 tiles per turn, so you need 6 galleons. 6 galleons could ship 18 units (galleon cargo space is 3) directly in 3 turns, while for a chain it takes 6 turns. But for reinforcements a steady stream of 3 units per turn is preferable to having units wait in the mainland while galleons sail back and forth.

Ya, reinforcements are best for chaining.
 
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Settlers, workers and particularly executives. Missionaries may be the case too, when you need to spread ASAP. And I quite agree with Sampsa that constant flow of small reinforcements is better than a large one once in a while.

There is something very odd about Shaka's behavior in this game.
Spoiler :
Since when he is such a cottage-lover?

Chaining is crucial for fast missionary spread and corporation spread ya.
Being able to only have 3 units on the map at any one time is a pain in the butt.

Spoiler :

Shaka does seem to have a lot now that you mention it.
He is certainly dangerous with a vassal and that many population. :crazyeye:

As long as he does not get Astronomy I'm not too worried though.
Caravals can't pillage my fish or blockade my coastal cities, so I'm very safe.


Shaka might be able to force a religious victory since no one is running Theocracy, but the AI are rarely smart enough to purposely send an AP missionary to every civ in the world with caravels.
I think the AI are only coded to purposely pursue a cultural and space victory, and only sometimes blunder into a military or diplo victory?

If I conquer one of Shaka's Hindu cities, I'll need to make sure Rome and Persia don't have any Hindu cities.
I've accidentally lost a few 10+ hour games to AP.

**Edit**
Wait! Darius built the Hindu AP, not Shaka!
:eek:
Crap, crap, crap.

Gnn, only Rome and I don't have Hindu cities.
But Darius is running free religion, so he doesn't get double votes.

Ah, there we go, Shaka is Cautious with Darius and Sury is Annoyed with Darius.
I need to make sure nobody gets +8 Pleased with Darius to vote for him.
Should be safe.

Hindu can totally spread to cities without any religion with Astronomy.
 
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Write up Part 12
T198-T205

Continued from part 11
Spoiler :
T198 - 1380AD
Spoiler :
Great Prophet born in my Heroic Epic city. (My 4th Great Person, 15% odds) :thumbsdown:
I could have really used the 50% odds Great Spy!
Bah, I'll save it for 2nd golden age.

Drafted more muskets.

Traded Military Tradition and Gunpowder to Darius for Constitution (+50% :espionage: Jails) , his map, and 380:gold:
Sure it is a bit dangerous to trade military techs to an AI that might get invaded in the future, but as long as Darius has Cuirassiers and I have Rifles (+25% vs. mounted units) I don't care too much.
Spoiler :

My Great Artist finally arrived up north in Constantinople.
My bronze tile is 97% Roman, my iron tile is 99% Roman, and my gold tile is 88% Roman.
Let's see how much plot culture a +4000:culture: Great Work generates.
Spoiler :



Culture Bomb activated.
I have 48% culture on my city tile now, and the starvation has ended. :)
2% more and I don't have to worry about revolts or garrisoning Constantinople.
With +3:culture: per turn and 3 border pops, I should generate +64 plot culture per turn.
Adrianople should be putting (21 plus his :culture: per turn) plot culture on Constantinople.
As long as Adrianople is making less than 43:culture: per turn, I should gradually gain control of my city tile.
Should I run 100% :culture: slider for 1 turn? Hmm.

Stole Printing Press from Rome!
Unlocks democracy, scientific method, and replaceable parts.
Spoiler :



T199 - 1390AD
Spoiler :
Buddhist holy city out of revolt.
City tile went from 48% Dutch to 45% Dutch in 3 turns, a giant setback for getting a 1 unit garrisoned city. :cry:

T200 - 1400AD
Spoiler :
Great Spy born in Rome.
Julius will have Replaceable Parts in 1 turn.

T201 - 1410AD
Spoiler :
Darius and Julius lead the world in :culture:
Spoiler :

Rome has started another Golden Age!
Great Merchant born
in my National Epic city as my 5th great person.
Will almost certainly use for 2nd Golden Age.
Spoiler :

Rome will have Rifling in 2 turns. :(
How? Huge overflow, golden age, and crazy teching to get a 4000:science: tech in two turns, though I'm sure Rifling costs Rome less beakers than that.
Time to cancel the plan to attack Rome.
It's just too dangerous now.

Stole Replaceable Parts!
All windmills now have +1:hammers:
Spoiler :



Elephant City finally got +5:food: bananas back after 25 turns of being a very small +:food: city.
It is finally a good city again.
All it took was Elephant City adding +75 plot culture per turn and Old Sarai adding +30 plot culture per turn.
Spoiler :


T202 - 1420AD
Spoiler :
Rome got a Great Prophet.
Will try to steal Rifling next turn.
I'm not sure I have enough :gold: to keep 100% :espionage: slider and steal Astronomy from Darius on T205.
My math indicates I will need 1034:espionage: to steal Rifling and 1267:espionage: for Astronomy.

Shifting my next war target to Persia for now.
15 World Wonders and 5 fat island cities are an extremely juicy target.
Spoiler :


Put :science: into Education and trade Darius Replaceable Parts for Education?
Haha, no way is Persia getting the prerequisite for Rifling from me.

Scrounging for nickels now.
Traded map to Rome for 165:gold:
Put 69:espionage: onto Shaka since he is the final world power and it is really cheap to see what he is teching.
Spoiler :





T203 - 1430AD
Spoiler :
Shaka is plotting war! :run:
How long has he been doing that?
I haven't been checking on him lately.
Shaka is Cautious with me, Cautious with Persia, and Pleased with Rome.
My +4 relations is only Cautious, and I mistakenly thought I was at Pleased with Shaka. :sad:

Shaka will have Astronomy in 1 turn!
:run:
He has gunpowder, but no Philosophy.
The worst he can hit me with is Muskets, but he could also be targeting Darius.

Darius has gotten Replaceable Parts.
Rome has Rifling and his Chichen Itza is no longer giving +25% city defense.
All 3 major AI powers are being a pain.
Spoiler :



I've got enough :espionage: to steal Rifling right now from Rome, but I want to produce 2 City Raider III Maces in Constantinople and Karakorum this turn.
Combined with my other 3 City Raider II Maces, I can upgrade the 5 Maces to Rifles later and have City Raider Rifles. :ar15:
Will steal Rifling next turn.

The main question is what to do about Astronomy.
I think I will wait 1 turn and see which AI are willing to trade it.
Best would be if Shaka is willing to trade it and I can save 1200:espionage:
Whipping 3 Jails and 1 Castle this turn anyway.

T204 - 1440AD
Spoiler :
Shaka only trades techs at Pleased and of course won't trade me Astro.
Will have to steal it from Persia.

Gave Shaka a whole bunch of :gold: per turn gifts and traded him 5 resources for 14:gold: per turn each.
Will cancel the gold gifts in 10 turns and suck 70:gold: per turn out of Shaka. :devil:
Combined with his vassal, Shaka is a tiny bit stronger than even Rome militarily.
Spoiler :





The cost for Rifling went up 50:espionage: and I can no longer afford it.
Will put a bit more into Rome and steal it next turn for sure.
All my city raider maces are done.

Constantinople finally got to 50% Dutch and no longer needs a large garrison.
Moved the garrison to my Buddhist holy city (still at 45% Dutch), and moved the best troops from there to the southeast.
Also started moving my main army east from Elephant City (29% Dutch :sad:).
If Shaka invades my east coast, or I decide to pull the trigger on Persia, I want a big hammer. :sniper:
Starting to move 2 Caravals to keep watch in front of my east coast and 1 Caraval to keep watch on my west coast for any invasion fleet.
Spoiler :





T205 -1450AD
Spoiler :
Finally got a Tao missionary up to my holy city.
After I spread my state religion there, the revolt strength got cut in half and I was able to take out half the garrison to send to the front. :)
Most likely they will go down to Elephant City to free up some Muskets.
If the revolting civilization's state religion is present, the value is doubled. If the city owner's state religion is present, the value is halved. If both are present, these two multipliers cancel each other out. If somebody doesn't have a state religion, they don't get a multiplier.
If I had done this back in 1320 when I first adopted Taoism, the city might not have revolted in 1360.
Spoiler :







Stole Rifling from Rome!
Drafted 3 Rifles even though I've got 2 turns of anger left from the last draft.
Now is no time to be soft.
If a city can handle the anger, I'm gonna draft a Rifle from now on.
Spoiler :





Not really sure what to tech since Rome has Chemistry now.
Divine Right?
Every time I get a tech half researched I end up stealing it.

Darius will have Physics in 7 turns.

Pondering 2nd Golden Age or using the Great Merchant for a trade mission to Shaka.

Go crazy with drafting and gift cities away to clear the anger?
Maybe I should have left Justinian alive because I sure don't want to start a war with Rome to take city gifts back.

I might be able to build Globe Theatre somewhere hmm.

 
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Write up Part 13
T205-T210

Spoiler :
T205 - 1450AD Continued
Spoiler :
Looking at my last turnset at the end of Turn 205, I'm a bit mystified.
Trade mission to Shaka?
What was I thinking?
Also, I could have at least tried to acquire Education for the Replaceable Parts that Persia got anyway. :wallbash:

First, I need to do a trade mission to Persia since it is closer.
The formula for the gold I get is (500+200 * Trade Route :gold: to my capital)

My capital is 7 population, so that is 1.0:gold: base profit.
Next the modifiers in the AI city get applied to the base profit to get Trade Route :gold:
+25% connection to capital
+150% since Persia has been at peace with me for 50 turns
+100% since I am overseas with Persia
+50% if the Persian City has a Harbor
+100% if the Persian City has a Customs House
Assuming all these modifiers, that is +425% or 5.25 modifier.
5.25*1.0:gold: base profit = 5.25:gold: Trade Route rounds down to 5:gold:

Plug that into (500+200 * Trade Route :gold: with my capital) and my trade mission to any Persian City with a Harbor and Customs House will give me (500+200 * 5) = 1500:gold:
Spoiler How to calculate Trade Mission Payout :
=========================
Keep in mind for trade missions we are calculating the trade route the AI city forms with my capital.
Not the trade route my capital would see connecting to the AI city.

Each additional population in my capital over 10 would give an extra 0.1:gold: to base profit for the AI city.
If my capital was 11 population, then the base profit would be 1.1:gold:
If my capital was 13 population, then the base profit would be 1.3:gold:
Having a player capital with a population far higher than 10 is the best way to get a massive trade mission payout since multipliers are applied to base profit.

However, base profit has a distance penalty built into it!

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/trade-routes.159047/#post-3698150
On a Standard Sized map, the (distance between the two cities divided by 10) becomes the base profit if it is smaller.
If my capital was 20 population, and the distance between the two cities was 14 tiles, the base profit would be 14 tiles / 10 = 1.4:gold: and not 20 population / 10 = 2.0:gold: :sad:
To get the highest trade mission payout, if the player capital is 11 population or higher, then the Great Merchant should visit a city at least that many tiles away.
With a 15 population capital, the Great Merchant should visit an AI city 15 tiles away or farther.


Each additional population in the Persian City over 10 would give an extra +5% modifier.
If the Persian city had 15 population, they would get an additional +25% modifier
If the Persian city had 22 population, they would get an additional +60% modifier

A trade mission with the player capital at 17 population to an overseas AI city 16 tiles away with 21 population + Harbor would give:
1.6:gold: base profit
+25% connection to capital
+150% peace bonus
+100% overseas
+50% harbor
+55% population
1.6 * 4.80 = 7.68 or 7:gold: trade route
500 + 200 * 7 = 1900:gold:
If that AI city was 1 tile farther away from the player capital it would have been 1.7 * 4.80 = 8.16 = 8:gold: trade route and 500 + 200 * 8 = 2100:gold:
=========================

If the player has vision on an AI city, it is possible to directly check how much :gold: a trade mission will yield.
Select the Great Merchant
Press G to enable the Goto command.
Holding down Shift, left click on the AI city.
While holding down Shift, mouse over the trade mission to see how much :gold: the city will give.
Let go of Shift and hit the Cancel button to remove the goto command.
Remember, this technique only works on AI cities that you have vision on.
Spoiler :





I can get 1500:gold: from Persepolis. :D (or 1700:gold: if Persepolis had 25 population)
Zooming in, I can see the Harbor and Customs House.
None of Shaka's cities have a Custom House.
Should get the 1500:gold: on Turn 209 using a Caravel chain.

Second, I need to try and get Astronomy with Surya in a trade.

Spoiler :

Unlike Shaka, Surya trades techs at Cautious.
Cautious is usually -2 to +2 relations, but hidden diplo modifiers can make it hard to judge where the player is at.
Currently I am -3 relations with Surya because I foolishly refused his demand for Philosophy a few turns ago and got a -2 diplo hit since Surya is special that way.
I figured he was a vassal so why care about diplomacy with him? :wallbash:

My best bet is to wait 2 turns for shared Organized Religion which I adopted on T197 to get shared civic bonus up to +2.
That will get me to -2 relations with Surya and MIGHT get me to Cautious with him. :hmm:
Switching to no religion is too costly, and switching to Buddhism will not reset the heathen penalty to -1.

Persia has Scientific Method since he can research Physics, so if I can get Astro from Surya in trade, I can steal Scientific Method from Darius and then trade it to Rome for Chemistry which i have 1000:science: in. (Will require a switch to Buddhism to get Rome Friendly again)
I seriously doubt I will self tech Chemistry.
Rome will view a 4000:science: tech for a bit under 3200:science:, and I need 2000:science: for Chemistry, so overpaying Rome 1200:science: might get me some gold, but no war bribe against anyone.
Will switch to Education.
If I put 600:science: into it, I can trade another 3000:science: tech for it maybe.

Finally, I have vision and can inspect all of Persia's cities thanks to my :espionage: slider.
The bulk of Persia's army can be seen with my military advisor.
Persia is weak!
Spoiler :

Will build Globe Theater in Beshbalik.
The 72:hammers: in the Palace (160:hammers:) is a bit awkward right now because Bureau is still at least 12 or 13 turns away.
Moving the capital will be good if I want to whip a lot during my 2nd Golden Age and if I want to use Spy City 1 again.
T206 - 1460AD
Spoiler :
Persia has Rifling. :sad:
He also is missing Communism on "Can Research", so he has that too.
Event log shows Great Spy born to Darius in 1430AD.
Spoiler :

My main army is pooling on my east coast.
Just need Galleons to sail for Persia.
If I can't upgrade to Cannons, I will likely attack Persia's Rifles anyway.
Spies can revolt cities and Frigates can bomb down culture defenses just fine.
Spoiler :

Need to figure out exactly how many :espionage: I need to possibly steal Scientific Method next turn.
My modifiers are
-40% religion, +13% distance, -50% stationary spy, and -26% espionage point spending.
Spoiler :

The final modifier is found through applying each modifier to 100 and rounding down.
100 * (0.60) = 60
60 * (1.13) = 67.8 = 67
67 * (0.50) = 33.5 = 33
33* (0.74) = 24.42 = 24%
The final modifier is 24% or 0.24

I multiply the final modifier with the base cost of stealing Astronomy which is 1.5 * :science: or 1.5 * 3380:science: = 5070:espionage: base cost.
0.24 * 5070 = 1216.8 = 1216:espionage:
It should cost 1216:espionage: to steal Astronomy which exactly matches the screenshot.

Scientific Method is 1.5 * 4056:science: = 6084:espionage: base cost.
0.24 * 6084 = 1460.16 = 1460:espionage:

So I need 1460 espionage points to steal Sci. Method, or 10% espionage slider.
If I can't trade Sury for Astro, I will just have to steal it.
Can't put off the invasion!
T207 - 1470AD
Spoiler :
Rome got a Great Prophet. Such a beast.

YES!!! :rockon:
-2 Cautious with Suryavarman.
Traded Nationalism and Music to Sury for Astronomy.
Also got +8:gold: per turn and Spices for some resources.
Spoiler :



93% chance to steal Sci. Method.
Would be really, really nice to trade it to Rome for a big chunk of money and Chemistry.
If I fail, a 2nd Spy can try again in 6 turns.
..
....
Success, Scientific Method stolen!
Spoiler :




Switch to Buddhism this turn or next turn?
Can't trade Rome Sci. Method until next turn.
Gotten pretty lucky not to get "- 1 diplo we caught your spy causing trouble" with my stack of Spies in the city I gifted to Rome Ning-Hsai.
Most importantly, 1 turn of Anarchy now will let all my cities building Galleys change to East Indiamen so I can whip them next turn and produce the following turn.

Will draft 3 more Rifles and switch right now.

Revolted to Buddhism. (Will now need +25% more :espionage: points to steal from Rome)
Rome +11 Friendly even though I have -8 diplo penalties :lol:
Signed a Defensive Pact with Rome. (-1 diplo with every AI, goodbye Sury trades for 10 turns)
It will cancel when I DOW someone, but if Shaka attacks me Rome will DOW Shaka.
Could backfire if Shaka DOW's Rome and draws me in, but I really think Shaka is targeting me or Persia.
Spoiler :

T208 - 1480AD
Spoiler :
Rome's Golden Age ended.

Julius will trade Chemistry for Scientific Method!
War with Darius for Sci. Method isn't possible.
Asked for everything possible and was rejected. :sad:
Spoiler :



Hmm, I'm awful close.
How about taking the gold off the table and asking Julius "what will make this work"?
Success!

The trade bug strikes again. :confused:
AI just doesn't value gold the same as the human player.
Spoiler :



Traded Scientific Method for Chemistry, 490:gold:, Rome's map, and a trade embargo vs. Persia.
Both Rome and I got -1 diplo with Persia.
Rome canceled Open Borders with Persia and all trade deals, but can sign more next turn.
Hopefully he won't. :)
Trade embargoes aren't very strong, but Rome and Persia did lose their Open Borders diplo bonus.

Could put some slider on Education to get an even trade with Darius next turn, but :espionage: on Rome is a larger priority.
There is a decent chance Rome is researching something really good and I want it far more than Education.
Would need 0.24 * 7098 = 1703:espionage: to steal Steel (4732:science:) currently.
Totally different distance, city culture, religion, and espionage spending modifiers, but Ning-Hsai has the same overall modifier of 0.24 that the Persian island city did. :lol:
Next Great Person for my 2 Great Person Golden Age is due around T219.
Spoiler :



Stack of Doom is formed up north of capital.
Trying to calculate if I want to send Buddhist Missionaries for -40% city revolt costs.
Sci. Method obsoleted Monasteries so Org. Religion is the only way I can build them now.
Interesting action on the island west of Constantinople too.
Still no sign of any Shaka invasion fleet anywhere.
Spoiler :



Turn 209 - 1490AD
Spoiler :
Decided to delay the Great Merchant Trade Mission 1 turn to get some extra movement on my Caravel to deliver a war spy.
Spoiler :



Persia didn't trade Communism to Rome for Chemistry since Communism is a monopoly tech.
I can get Education this turn for 350:gold: and Chemistry, but that gold represents 700:espionage: with my multipliers and I can just steal Chemistry for around 1000:espionage:.
Best to wait 1 more turn before trading for Education.
Spoiler :
Turn 210 - 1500AD
Spoiler :
Rome switched to Free Speech for +100% :culture:
That will put enormous pressure on my border cities. :cry:

If Constantinople trends below 50% Dutch and I need a garrison again, I will bring up the Buddhist holy city (Thessalonica) garrison.
The 4 Muskets keeping Elephant City from revolting will also head for Persia when I need reinforcements, so 2 out of my 3 cities will likely start revolting again starting in about 10 turns.
My 3 border cities can't flip since I conquered them. (Does getting the Buddhist holy city in a peace treaty count?)
If they can't flip to Roman control, it isn't the end of the world if they revolt, just annoying.

The Mongols conquered the Buddhist holy city from Justinian before they gave it to me.
If it flips to Rome I would be surprised and outraged since it would hurt my spy economy so much losing the Buddhist holy city.
I'm almost certain the game mechanics as I understand them will prevent Thessalonica from joining Rome.


Darius switched to State Property and Emancipation making my cities more unhappy.


1500:gold: Trade Mission from Persepolis was successful.
I'm rich $_$
Spoiler :

Traded Chemistry + 200:gold: to Persia for Education.
Upgraded two City Raider III Maces for 140:gold: each and one 10xp Cuirassier to Cavalry for 80:gold:
Spoiler :



=========================
Upgrade cost is (the difference in hammers between the two units * 3 + 20) :gold:.
Mace is 70:hammers: and Rifle is 110:hammers: so the upgrade cost is 40*3+20 = 140:gold:
Cuirassier->Cavalry and Trebuchet->Cannon upgrade costs are 20*3+20 = 80:gold:

The Combat 5 War Elephant is borderline worth upgrading for 200:gold: to Cavalry.
Too expensive I'd say? :hmm:

City Raider III Rifles are very pleasing 1st attack units with an extra +10% vs. Gunpowder units.
My City Raider II Maces can wait until reaching City Raider III before being upgraded.

Promoted Trebuchets are also worth upgrading into Cannons with vastly increased collateral damage, survivability, and ignoring Walls/Castles.

Given the choice between upgrading CRIII Maces, Cuirassiers, and Trebuchets, I'd probably upgrade the Trebs first.
Bit of a tough call with the CRIII Maces.
=========================

I've got an urge to conquer the freshly captured Persian island city to the west of Constantinople, but a Size 1 city with no food and 1 Incense is not nearly as good as going east to invade the Persian mainland.
Spoiler :



Since Deity AI only value the player techs around 77% of their :science: value, my small tech rate is best spent on Biology (6000:science:).
If I steal Physics (6760:science:) from Persia who was researching it on T207, then I can trade Physics to Rome for Biology if I get to around 6760*0.77=5205 or 800:science: in Biology (6000:science:).
Nothing else really worth teching at a snail's pace. :dunno:

On Deity, the player needs 3042:science: for Education.
On Noble, the player needs 2340:science: for Education.
I think the Deity AI see Education in the trade window and value it at 2340:science:
2340/3042 = 77%

 
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Just popping in here to say that I really enjoy the read so far - wish I had the same amount of patience to give detailed reports/screenies of my games instead of rushing through everything!
 
Just popping in here to say that I really enjoy the read so far - wish I had the same amount of patience to give detailed reports/screenies of my games instead of rushing through everything!

Glad you like it :)

I keep trying to add in thoughts and learning/interesting things as much as possible.
Really hard not to rush.
 
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Write up Part 14
T201-T215

Spoiler :
T201 - 1505AD
Spoiler :
Rome has over 700:gold: in the trade screen.
I last begged him on T128 for 232:science: (or 174:gold: equivalent)
Beg again?
Spoiler :

There is a 5% chance each turn Julius forgot the last beg from turn 128, so I would have a 0.95^73 turns chance that Rome remembers the last beg and would refuse.
0.95^73 = 0.02365 or 2.365% chance Rome remembers the last beg and refuses a new one.

I will take the 97.7% chance of the beg working as good odds.
:)

How much :gold: can I beg this time?
It depends on my power ratio with Julius and how long I've known Rome.
The previous beg amount also gets subtracted.

Spoiler More Begging Calculations :
The formula is Begging_Ceiling = [((Turns_Known + 50) * 2 * ((Our_Power + 100)/(Their_Power + 100)) * 3 if Land Target]

I met Julius on turn 16 and it is now turn 201.
I've known him for 185 turns.
I have some idea what Julius power rating is based off the power graph.
I have around a bit above 75% of the Soldiers that Julius does?
Spoiler :



Shaka is the top of the graph, 590 pixels tall in microsoft paint with 1,806,000 Soldiers with 1600x900 resolution.
I am 352 pixels or 352/590 = 0.59661*1,806,000 = 1,077,000 Soldiers
Demographic screen says I have 1,130,000 Soldiers? (Well, I did draft 3 Rifles at the start of the turn or 42,000 soldiers, maybe they don't show up in the graph until the next turn?)

Rome is at 421 pixels or 421/590 = 0.713559*1,806,000 = 1,288,000 soldiers

So the Begging_Ceiling is equal to (185+50)*2*((1130+100)/(1288+100))*3 = (235)*2*(1230/1388)*3 = 1249
The last beg needs to be subtracted from the Begging_Ceiling
Begged 232:science: (or 174:gold:)
That means a Begging_Ceiling reduction of 174*2 = 348

New Begging_Ceiling = 1249-348 = 901
Gold_Ceiling, the amount of :gold: I can beg now after accounting for the previous beg is Begging_Ceiling /2
So the amount of :gold: I can beg will be one less than 901/2 = 450
Call it 449:gold: if I'm reading the power graph right.

If Rome is in financial trouble, then the amount I can beg will be Begging_Ceiling /3
In that case the amount of :gold: i can beg will be one less than 901/3 = 300
Call it 299:gold: if I'm reading the power graph right.

So is Rome in financial trouble or not?
The best article on financial trouble so far:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...in-game-mechanics.464503/page-5#post-12021925

Will Rome accept city gifts?
Yes, he will. :D
Spoiler :

Ok, no financial trouble, so lets be safe and beg 420:gold: and not the full 449:gold: since being even 1 pixel off would affect the Begging_Ceiling calculation.
..
.......
Beg Failed! :cry:
Spoiler :

Where did I make a mistake?
Never did work out all the kinks in my begging guide.

**Edit**
Let me save the failure, reload, and try the beg again to find out the range where Rome will/won't accept the 2nd beg.
It won't count in my game.
Spoiler :





Looks like 292:gold: was the limit.
That is very close to the 299:gold: limit I calculated with Rome being in Financial Trouble. :hmm:
Can an AI be in financial trouble yet still take city gifts?
I'll figure it out another day.

Can try to beg Julius again in 20 or 25 turns.
Moving on!
T202 - 1510AD
Spoiler :
Rome teched Assembly Line
Need 2028:espionage: to steal it which I can do next turn.
Spoiler :
The invasion of Persia is set to occur on T205.
26 units plus 2 Buddhist Missionaries.
The homeland also has a huge stack of reinforcements ready to join the war later.
Everything is looking good.
Spoiler :




T203 - 1515AD
Spoiler :
Rome will tech Steel in 5 turns. :D
Will save my 2000:espionage: on him and just get Assembly Line later.
Cannons are way better than Dikes right now.

I am -59:gold: per turn at 0% slider, so I'll just put what little I have on Persia to pay for city revolts.
Steel will be the last tech I steal until the next Golden Age most likely.
Too poor!

Also, it is about time to stop drafting Rifles.
My 14 cities are starting to get angry due to multiple drafts and there are no AI I can gift my non-border cities to clear anger.
Spoiler :
T204 - 1520AD
Spoiler :
The Dutch unique unit is notable for being able to carry 4 units instead of 3.
It can also explore rival territory, which means it can sail through closed borders.
That means a DOW does not eject the ship from enemy borders. :)
A good use is to start the war, drop off the units, and sail 4 tiles away where no AI ships can retaliate.
Spoiler :
Checked all the Persian cities.
The capital appears to be building a Wonder.
Spoiler :
Persepolis production = (3378/890) * (650/6) = 411:hammers:
Will put 10% :espionage: slider to see what it is right before the war starts.
Spreading Buddhism might also work, but I'm not certain.
With Physics completed, Persia is in the Industrial Era.
They get a 4*5 = -20% bonus to Wonders and only have to pay 80% of the hammers to complete one.

Persepolis must be building West Point (900:hammers:) or The Kremlin (800:hammers:)
Dang, do I need to delay my war?
:crazyeye:
The Kremlin is an AMAZING wonder.

Canceled my :gold: per turn gifts to Shaka.
He is now paying 14:gold: per turn for my resources. :mwaha:
Spoiler :


Is 14:gold: per turn for my resources a greater benefit for me or for his huge empire?
I'm not sure.
T205 - 1525AD
Spoiler :
Hahaha, Shaka DOW'd Persia :woohoo:
A pointless amphibious assault from the sea.
Spoiler :



Persia put :espionage: into me, so I still don't know what his capital is making.
Spoiler :

Persepolis production = 4044/903 * 650/6 = 485:hammers:
Time to find out if the Buddhist spread works to instantly lower my city inspection cost.
Spoiler :



Worked!
485/680:hammers: Kremlin.

I need to ponder if I want to delay the invasion or not.
Kremlin is impossible to whip complete because of the horrifying whip modifier.
Building it myself would take a long time after stealing Communism and the wonder has the amazing ability to effectively change the base hammers of my whip from 30 to 44.
It is totally worth delaying my invasion 2 turns if Persia will build it for me.

Invade one of his other cities in the meanwhile?
Hmm. :hmm:

 
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The Dutch unique unit is notable for being able to carry 4 units instead of 3.
It can also explore rival territory, which means it can sail through closed borders.
That means a DOW does not eject the ship from enemy borders. :)
A good use is to start the war, drop off the units, and sail 4 tiles away where no AI ships can retaliate.
Aren't your ships still in danger because Darius got circumnavigation bonus? His Frigates have 5:move: compared to the 4:move: your EIM have, and the EIM's 6:strength: isn't going to save them against a Frigate...
 
Aren't your ships still in danger because Darius got circumnavigation bonus? His Frigates have 5:move: compared to the 4:move: your EIM have, and the EIM's 6:strength: isn't going to save them against a Frigate...

They might kill some but they can’t kill all. And 6 to 8 strength ratio gives an EIM about 25% victory chance IIRC, so you might even win some fights.
 
Aren't your ships still in danger because Darius got circumnavigation bonus? His Frigates have 5:move: compared to the 4:move: your EIM have, and the EIM's 6:strength: isn't going to save them against a Frigate...

Yes, you've realized the key point. :D
When fighting ships who are faster, they can chase down the player ships and kill them if they have good odds.

What to do?
Spoiler :
First, what goal is the navy supporting?
I want to conquer Persia as fast as possible, so killing the enemy fleet in the 1st blow of the war is obviously preferred.
Can I capture Persepolis amphibiously and sink the whole Persian fleet?
No, I brought too many siege units and don't want horrible losses.
Attacking from the sea gives defenders a +50% bonus.


So if the enemy fleet will live, how can I avoid dying?
I have over 40 units back in the homeland ready to reinforce my attack if they can make it over, so the East Indiamen need to bring at least half to the front.
Thankfully I brought 2 Frigates that can promote twice. :)
They can guard any stack I decide to form.

If I start the war 2 tiles from Persepolis, I can run 4 tiles west and Persia can't kill me the following turn being 6 tiles away.
On coastal tiles, boats get +10%:strength:, but out in the ocean there are no bonuses.
My 2 Frigates will have good odds bashing the top 2 Persian Frigates.
Spoiler :



Hmm, after looking at those 2 screenshots, if the Persian Navy does not chase the Shaka Navy, I should start the war next turn from the northern dropoff point.

On T216
Have both Frigates bombard down the defenses Susa 1W of the city.
All 7 EIM drop off their 26 units 1N1W of the Persian capital and then flee 4N4W.
The 1 EIM near Sardis with 5:move: drops off 4 more units 1N1W of Persepolis then moves onto the 2 Frigates for safety.
The EIM with 3 Spies and 1 Catapult will have to approach slower with only 4:move:

On T217, the fleet of 7EIM move 4S4W to 3E1S of Sardis.
They should be able to pick up the bulk of the reinforcements from the mainland.

Will Persia complete the Kremlin in 2 turns if I DOW?

I think he will. :please:
Since I have time, I can blow up the Walls and spend 1 turn bombarding down the 80% Persian defenses with 8 Trebs and 1 Catapult.
Persia has Rifling and can no longer build Walls, so any Walls I blow up are gone for good along with their Castle effectiveness.

That should keep everyone alive and complete all my goals.
Hope that answers your naval question Acametis. :)

They might kill some but they can’t kill all. And 6 to 8 strength ratio gives an EIM about 25% victory chance IIRC, so you might even win some fights.

Haha, ya East Indiamen are awesome.

In the worst case scenario against a super predator, a fleet can simply scatter.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/convoy-is-to-scatter-arctic-convoy-disaster/
Pound now believed the worst—Tirpitz was at sea, streaking right for PQ-17. If that was the case, the convoy would have to scatter. Based on wholly negative evidence, Pound overruled his men in London and at sea. At 9:11 pm, he signaled, “Most immediate. Cruiser force withdraw westward at high speed.” At 9:23, he signaled, “Immediate. Owing to threat from surface ships, convoy is to disperse and proceed to Russian ports.” Then at 9:36: “Most immediate … Convoy is to scatter.”
 
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Will Persia complete the Kremlin in 2 turns if I DOW?
I think he will. :please:

I was digging through CvCityAI.cpp the other day for an unrelated question (whether putting one turn into a wonder makes the AI less likely to start it). Found a clause in there you might find relevant. From what I can tell, the AI should never, under any circumstances, change production in a city when the current item has 3 or fewer turns remaining to completion. Even if they suddenly get DoW'd. They might *rush* that production with gold or whip to finish it in a single turn instead. Or I suppose something could change the city's production rate so it suddenly takes 4+ turns instead, and the AI might switch then. But they shouldn't choose to switch away from a nearly-competed build (whether unit, building, or wonder).

The specific code, if curious...

Spoiler :

Code:
    if (isProduction())
    {
        if (getProduction() > 0)
        {
            //a couple irrelevant checks I'm omitting
            <omitted>
            // if less than 3 turns left, keep building current item
            else if (getProductionTurnsLeft() <= 3)
            {
                return;
            }


Edit: With the exception of settlers, one of the omitted clauses above - the AI will consider switching away from producing a nearly-finished settler if it is in financial difficulty. Not terribly relevant to this case.
 
Last edited:
I was digging through CvCityAI.cpp the other day for an unrelated question (whether putting one turn into a wonder makes the AI less likely to start it). Found a clause in there you might find relevant. From what I can tell, the AI should never, under any circumstances, change production in a city when the current item has 3 or fewer turns remaining to completion. Even if they suddenly get DoW'd. They might *rush* that production with gold or whip to finish it in a single turn instead. Or I suppose something could change the city's production rate so it suddenly takes 4+ turns instead, and the AI might switch then. But they shouldn't choose to switch away from a nearly-competed build (whether unit, building, or wonder).

The specific code, if curious...

Spoiler :

Code:
    if (isProduction())
    {
        if (getProduction() > 0)
        {
            //a couple irrelevant checks I'm omitting
            <omitted>
            // if less than 3 turns left, keep building current item
            else if (getProductionTurnsLeft() <= 3)
            {
                return;
            }


Edit: With the exception of settlers, one of the omitted clauses above - the AI will consider switching away from producing a nearly-finished settler if it is in financial difficulty. Not terribly relevant to this case.

But they shouldn't choose to switch away from a nearly-competed build (whether unit, building, or wonder).
That's great, thanks Coanda! :D

I'll make sure not to land on a bunch of production tiles and push the wonder to complete in 4 turns.
 
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