The AI built aircraft!

[Archon_Wing]

And it's been 2 years.

This was an emperor game, though I haven't seen it in a number of immortal games that lasted much longer. It did quite a bit of damage since I didn't have oil when I started the war. But it certainly made things much more difficult if they're in the mood, for once.

 

[Morningcalm]

That’s encouraging. Usually my games are still over before the emergence of aircraft, unfortunately. Culture victory remains really easy to get, even if one is not aiming for it as such for most of the game (and then pivots into it since Diplo Victory is annoying sometimes).

 

[Aristos]

I cannot avoid the sadness of this being a thread title in the civ 6 universe... with exclamation mark included.

Varus, give me back my legions!

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yea, it's pretty pathetic. But what's done is done.

 

[Aristos]

Yea, it's pretty pathetic. But what's done is done.

I wasn't criticizing your thread title, I was hitting the almost-dead horse (FXS).

Pathetic is not your title, but the mere fact that such a title can exist in the civ universe... has the franchise fallen this low?

 

[Archon_Wing]

I know, I was talking about the situation. (eg. an entire expansion passed with it being completely broken)

 

[Drew97]

Exactly, they finally go to war for real, I was even struggling with a p51 mustang with america and a jet bomber for australia, and I took casualties which is very rare because they often do not go to war properly, now I need to think of a strategy to actually invade both of them and take their capitals since im going for domination victory as macedon

 

[Dedrytus]

Yeah, I was surprised too My invading fleet was destroyed by AI aircrafts in two turns. It was totally unexpected for me.

 

[Drew97]

Yeah, I was surprised too My invading fleet was destroyed by AI aircrafts in two turns. It was totally unexpected for me.

well, thats a big loss, why didn't u escort it with missile cruisers and destroyers though, the anti air defense is not the most reliable but it is better than none

 

[Mahi]

I'm currently playing a game, where I'm battling with France and they have air units. Had to start building air support before I could invade.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well I feel like this does make a big difference now that we may have to care about anti-air; that makes combat a bit different and something to look forward to.

 

[Gorbles]

I have to say, all the commiseration about "how this could be a thing" / "how the franchise has fallen so low" is a bit tiring. You're the same people (like, exactly the same people, Archon, Aristos) who have asked for AI fixes for ages. Now there is finally evidence of AI fixes, and you're still lamenting it regardless.

It really just gives the impression that nomatter what Firaxis do, it isn't going to be enough!

It's also funny considering how quickly people rush to slam the AI, without obviously giving the games enough time to show evidence of improvements made.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I have to say, all the commiseration about "how this could be a thing" / "how the franchise has fallen so low" is a bit tiring. You're the same people (like, exactly the same people, Archon, Aristos) who have asked for AI fixes for ages. Now there is finally evidence of AI fixes, and you're still lamenting it regardless.

How exactly is a thread lamenting it punctuated with a "!". ? I obviously thought it was good enough to share because it's a new development.

without obviously giving the games enough time to show evidence of improvements made.

There's plenty of proof out there that I actually play and enjoy this game. I'm not sure about you, since the most you can do is talk about us. In fact, when was the last time you even discussed any specific game mechanics? At least I share what's going right. What have you done?

 

[Aristos]

Yeah, I was surprised too My invading fleet was destroyed by AI aircrafts in two turns. It was totally unexpected for me.

Just to make sure... are you sure you were playing civ 6?

Now there is finally evidence of AI fixes, and you're still lamenting it regardless.

Maybe because we don't see them? I sure didn't. I won my last Deity game by bombing the heck out of a very advanced (as usual) Korea, that did not use her tech lead to create a proper air defense (yes, she had the resources, the money, the time...). Was my last game before going back to Vox, exactly because of this. And you want me to agree with the thread maker in something that is the exact opposite of my experience? Sorry, I don't base my opinions on feelings.

 

[Gorbles]

How exactly is a thread lamenting it punctuated with a "!". ? I obviously thought it was good enough to share because it's a new development.

There's plenty of proof out there that I actually play and enjoy this game. I'm not sure about you, since the most you can do is talk about us. In fact, when was the last time you even discussed any specific game mechanics? At least I share what's going right. What have you done?

I was commenting on the posts within the thread, right? I semi-quoted examples?

I mean, you do you. If your response to this is "when did YOU last play the game" it's kinda pointless me replying to you further.

Maybe because we don't see them? I sure didn't. I won my last Deity game by bombing the heck out of a very advanced (as usual) Korea, that did not use her tech lead to create a proper air defense (yes, she had the resources, the money, the time...). Was my last game before going back to Vox, exactly because of this. And you want me to agree with the thread maker in something that is the exact opposite of my experience? Sorry, I don't base my opinions on feelings.

If I haven't seen something, and then see it, and presuming it's a positive I don't talk about how the game has such a low bar for such a thing to be a positive. It's a positive improvement, of the specific kind you (and others) have been asking for. The bar can't be low if it's something you have loudly and for a long time wanted. That makes no sense!

I didn't say you saw them or not. You being sad at the thread title is irrelevant to you experiencing it or not. "feelings" don't come into it, except I guess your feelings of sadness, which are fair for opinion

C'mon now, let's at least try to explore this. Claiming feelings don't matter in a thread you expressively gave an opinion based on feelings of is downright circular to the point of well, being pointless. Why is it sad that the AI built aircraft? Isn't this a longstanding issue that lots of folk have wanted Firaxis to address?

 

[Aristos]

C'mon now, let's at least try to explore this. Claiming feelings don't matter in a thread you expressively gave an opinion based on feelings of is downright circular to the point of well, being pointless. Why is it sad that the AI built aircraft? Isn't this a longstanding issue that lots of folk have wanted Firaxis to address?

You know well that my first post here was a metaphor... of course I am not sad, but was clearly referring to the sad state of the game when a thread title emphasizes that "the AI built aircraft!"... I assume you read my comment completely,. because it is pretty clear what it is saying (where do I say that it is sad that the AI built aircraft??? )

For reference, here it is again:

I cannot avoid the sadness of this being a thread title in the civ 6 universe... with exclamation mark included.

Do you understand it now?

 

[Gorbles]

I didn't know anything of the kind. I'm not being obtuse here, I rarely am anymore. Bad habit from when I was younger. I try not to read into things, because things can easily be mistaken or taken out of context (and however much we may disagree, that's not something I'm fond of).

You're sad that it's a surprise that the AI was fixed, then? Is that more accurate? Surely, given that aircraft AI is one of the most-publicised and definitely one of the most impactful weak spots of the AI, then surprise or not this is still great news. It completely changes how I would play the game if I were trying to uncover AI patterns (I don't personally, I normally play Civ to relax as I have very little free time at the moment. Not compared to my old CiV / BE days). Personally, I'd take the good news, and not the sadness

 

[Aristos]

I cannot avoid the sadness of this being a thread title in the civ 6 universe... with exclamation mark included.

I didn't know anything of the kind. I'm not being obtuse here, I rarely am anymore. Bad habit from when I was younger. I try not to read into things, because things can easily be mistaken or taken out of context (and however much we may disagree, that's not something I'm fond of).

You're sad that it's a surprise that the AI was fixed, then? Is that more accurate? Surely, given that aircraft AI is one of the most-publicised and definitely one of the most impactful weak spots of the AI, then surprise or not this is still great news. It completely changes how I would play the game if I were trying to uncover AI patterns (I don't personally, I normally play Civ to relax as I have very little free time at the moment. Not compared to my old CiV / BE days). Personally, I'd take the good news, and not the sadness

Are you messing with me? Can you really not see that the "sadness" refers to the fact that "the AI building aircraft" is now deserving of a thread title, with exclamation mark, in civ 6? Is it really that hard to catch? Maybe my English is too convoluted?

Oh, and for the record, it's not fixed. We only need one example to destroy the "it's fixed" argument, and I happen to have that example (if you believe it or not, that's another story, but in my experience, no, air AI is not fixed).

 

[Gorbles]

I'm seriously just going to move on from the pedantry because I'm bad enough at continuing it myself. I did not see your meaning, intent isn't always easily-communicated, and that's all I can say.

On the subject of fixing it, I'm going to trot out my tried and tested line of "AI is complicated". Something was obviously fixed in order for the AI to now build (and presumably use) aircraft. That thing was fixed. There might be other factors impacting on the AI not using it properly every time. There might be other bugs, perhaps in the aircraft AI usage or somewhere completely elsewhere (remember when Agendas were so rigidly followed by the AI that nothing made sense despite the Agendas themselves being pretty sensible?).

To deny that something was fixed, and that something correlates strongly with the AI being able to use aircraft (at all) is to deny the evidence in this thread.

At some point I have to wonder: do you want to like this game? This is a bit tongue in cheek, because nobody can say you don't play the game (and more than that!), but you wouldn't be the first person to have their own idea for what the game should be. You seem too invested in putting it down, and honestly I just don't get why. But that's not the point of this thread, so I'm out here. You don't have to explain. Just wanted to explain my puzzled attitude

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Yes, this discussion needs to move on. I do not understand why the two of you cannot agree that it is a good thing that the AI built aircraft and that it would be a better thing if the AI used them more appropriately. Instead, we get this dance of absolutes that cannot exist in the real world. Please, enough.