The America Thread

[jsciv69]

Yeah, great criminal specialists are probably not likely to be a good idea.

Who doesn't want to play Pirate for a day? It would surely add some sugar and spice to the game. And some good rum. If we can grow corn and wheat. We can also grow Poppy seed and Hemp. Or obtain such from "special" connections. Then use our gains to sway other leaders to lean our way in key issues.

 

[jsciv69]

a civ should not be built almost completely around a historic snapshot of it's leader's day and age

Of course not. But it does make sense to have some exciting features of that day and age. For instance-in Civ V Washington got the Minuteman, Teddy Roosevelt got the Rough Riders in the last one. So While we don't have every aspect of the Leader's Era. It makes sense to have at least a few things that represent that Leader and that Era. So if Kennedy were to be the Leader, it would be reasonable to give him his Green Berets

 

[Patine]

Of course not. But it does make sense to have some exciting features of that day and age. For instance-in Civ V Washington got the Minuteman, Teddy Roosevelt got the Rough Riders in the last one. So While we don't have every aspect of the Leader's Era. It makes sense to have at least a few things that represent that Leader and that Era. So if Kennedy were to be the Leader, it would be reasonable to give him his Green Berets

Another problem you've been utterly ignoring, despite it being brought up several times, is, in most Civ games, you wouldn't get may turns, at all, to even use Green Berets, F-15's, or Abrams tanks, if at all.

 

[Patine]

My point is this Franchise has featured some of the most dreaded characters in history. So why not include the likes of Al Capone or Tommy Lucchese, who lorded over their own Empires in much the same way.

Because their form of, "empire," was not the same.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Because their form of, "empire," was not the same.

I suggested some time ago the addition of a new category of Great People called Great Felons that you might get in your Civ despite your best efforts, which would include such civilizationally negative types as Al Capone, Guy Fawkes, Stenka Razin, Rob Roy, etc.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Of course not. But it does make sense to have some exciting features of that day and age. For instance-in Civ V Washington got the Minuteman, Teddy Roosevelt got the Rough Riders in the last one. So While we don't have every aspect of the Leader's Era. It makes sense to have at least a few things that represent that Leader and that Era. So if Kennedy were to be the Leader, it would be reasonable to give him his Green Berets

That doesn't mean that Kennedy should get 5 unique units and 5 unique buildings like you are suggesting.
I wouldn't mind if each leader got one unique to represent their era, whether it be a single unit or infrastructure, alongside the civilizations uniques.

 

[jsciv69]

I suggested some time ago the addition of a new category of Great People called Great Felons that you might get in your Civ despite your best efforts, which would include such civilizationally negative types as Al Capone, Guy Fawkes, Stenka Razin, Rob Roy, etc.

But say your Civ has a special connection to certain "special groups or individuals". For instance imagine having an alliance with Captain Morgan or Blackbeard. Where you get a percentage of their raids on cargo ships and trade caravans. Of course in the beginning the groups can be a special barbarian type that becomes pirates later. Something to iron out indeed. But it could bring some added flavor to this game.

 

[jsciv69]

That doesn't mean that Kennedy should get 5 unique units and 5 unique buildings like you are suggesting.
I wouldn't mind if each leader got one unique to represent their era, whether it be a single unit or infrastructure, alongside the civilizations uniques.

Why the limitations. I think all Civs should be given a lot more special features. And like I said, if Civ VII is a reality, the technology is there to make each Civ as deluxe as possible.

 

[jsciv69]

Another problem you've been utterly ignoring, despite it being brought up several times, is, in most Civ games, you wouldn't get may turns, at all, to even use Green Berets, F-15's, or Abrams tanks, if at all.

There is life beyond the Cavalry. I have played many Civ game that have gone the distance. And there are Eras beyond even the Modern. And even as you might be waiting on that Cultural victory, you still have to defend you Civilization. So what do you do when Khruschev send his T-64s towards your borders? That's when you'll hope you have built up your own Modern arsenal to counter the armored invasion. That's where the M60A1 Tanks, if mass produced enough, might just come in handy. Or you can wait on that early victory while your Civ is suddenly speaking Russian.

 

[Patine]

There is life beyond the Cavalry. I have played many Civ game that have gone the distance. And there are Eras beyond even the Modern. And even as you might be waiting on that Cultural victory, you still have to defend you Civilization. So what do you do when Khruschev send his T-64s towards your borders? That's when you'll hope you have built up your own Modern arsenal to counter the armored invasion. That's where the M60A1 Tanks, if mass produced enough, might just come in handy. Or you can wait on that early victory while your Civ is suddenly speaking Russian.

Khruschev and T-64's have never been in a standard (non-scenario/mod) Civ game, and VERY RARELY are even suggested. It seems odd to make the M60 an iconic AMERICAN unit when, in the RW, Israel and Turkey have each deployed a lot more of them to battlefields than the U.S. ever has, and those two are still using them.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Why the limitations. I think all Civs should be given a lot more special features. And like I said, if Civ VII is a reality, the technology is there to make each Civ as deluxe as possible.

Because realistically not every civ would have that many special features. Could you reasonably give civs like the Zulu or Iroquois 5 distinct unique units and infrastructure, or would they be left behind? And would each civ really feel unique if they had that many? I can only imagine the number of unique swordsman and cavalry replacements if 50+ civs got 5 unique units, considering Civ 6 already had a lot.
We finally got to where each civ at least has one of each. I think jumping to 5 each is a bit extreme.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

But say your Civ has a special connection to certain "special groups or individuals". For instance imagine having an alliance with Captain Morgan or Blackbeard. Where you get a percentage of their raids on cargo ships and trade caravans. Of course in the beginning the groups can be a special barbarian type that becomes pirates later. Something to iron out indeed. But it could bring some added flavor to this game.

In other words, the current Privateer in Civ VI without the individual names?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

In other words, the current Privateer in Civ VI without the individual names?

I envision it more like a more fleshed out version of the current coastal barbarian outposts.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I envision it more like a more fleshed out version of the current coastal barbarian outposts.

This is a place to argue for Progressive Barbarians and other such Mechanics. Wherever there was a coast conducive to piracy - Fat Target trade routes passing by and mountains or desert behind the coast to make it difficult for any central Authority to control them - groups made a living out of piracy, and became specialist pirate states. They developed, in fact, into something bigger than simple Barbarian Camps and more, in game terms, similar to Pirate City States. This goes as far back as the Dalmatian and Anatolian coastal pirates of the Classical Era, or the Barbary Coast of North Africa, the south China coast or, of course, Port Royale in the Caribbean, probably the quintessential Pirate City State in history.

Basically, the Pirate City State would be a coastal version of the Military City State which produces Sea Raider type ships almost exclusively, is much harder to get rid of than a simple Barbarian Camp, but can be interacted with Diplomatically as well aas Militarily.

It's another argument for more Dynamics in the game: the Barbarian Camp that spawns 'pirate' ships, if it keeps at it long enough, should grow into something bigger and a little more dangerous, just as I would love to see Free Cities have a chance of becoming a New Civilization to keep the mid and end game more dynamic and less predictable.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

This is a place to argue for Progressive Barbarians and other such Mechanics. Wherever there was a coast conducive to piracy - Fat Target trade routes passing by and mountains or desert behind the coast to make it difficult for any central Authority to control them - groups made a living out of piracy, and became specialist pirate states. They developed, in fact, into something bigger than simple Barbarian Camps and more, in game terms, similar to Pirate City States. This goes as far back as the Dalmatian and Anatolian coastal pirates of the Classical Era, or the Barbary Coast of North Africa, the south China coast or, of course, Port Royale in the Caribbean, probably the quintessential Pirate City State in history.

Basically, the Pirate City State would be a coastal version of the Military City State which produces Sea Raider type ships almost exclusively, is much harder to get rid of than a simple Barbarian Camp, but can be interacted with Diplomatically as well aas Militarily.

It's another argument for more Dynamics in the game: the Barbarian Camp that spawns 'pirate' ships, if it keeps at it long enough, should grow into something bigger and a little more dangerous, just as I would love to see Free Cities have a chance of becoming a New Civilization to keep the mid and end game more dynamic and less predictable.

Tripoli (or any NA coastal city [except for Morocco if there’s a Moroccan civ]), Port Royale, Scodra, maybe a Malay cs (Idk if a lot of piracy was near Malacca or Singapore would be the best choices for a Pirate CS

 

[BuchiTaton]

Pretty much any culture knows by sea raiding could fit as potential BC-CS minor civs (or Nations as would like them to be consolidated in CIV7). No just one but a group of them like the Sherden, Dayak, Carib, Norse, Somali, etc.

The same can be applied to all kind of cultures that resorted to raiding on others environments like deserts and steppes. Also any other specialization types that gives you access to special units could be perfectly covered by Nations (BC-CS).